Post your submissions and votes for a replacement name for "Sign of the Month"
Current named Judges are:
Dan Sawatzky Nettie Rick Sacks Bruce Bowers Adrienne Joe Rees Henry Barker
So far Nettie, Adrienne and Henry have definitely accepted positions. I'll edit the post as the others accept or decline. Rick has accepted. He's in. Cool. Joe Rees is in.
[ March 06, 2002, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: pierre ]
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Really glad to see Joe Rees in the mix. I'm sure he'll accept!
Other names that come to mind for judges are Bob Darnell, Dan Antonelli, Doug Downey, Rob Clark, and Mark Fair.
Say, what do you think about folks getting together and submitting a logo design for this once we arrive at a new name for it? Would be great to create a nice webpage for it, and a logo would enhance that.
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
Nettie, not only are you talented, but generous! Thanks for offering.
Posted by Jon Aston (Member # 1725) on :
Great suggestion Nettie!
I was going to suggest the same thing! I would add that:
The look and feel of the new webpage should be distinctly Letterhead-ish...not ND-ish in any way.
I also think there should be a link to Letterville on the new webpage.
We should also consider a link on the page to a document that provides details about how to submit a sign for this prestigous honour, etc. and/or how-to become a judge.
Any L-heads out there with a website would (of course) be welcome to link to the page as well. We should all be free to use the new logo design for this purpose, I think.
Suggestion for new name: International Signs of Distinction As selected monthly, in Letterville Who is going to decide on the new name? I think it should be our panel of 7 judges.
[ March 06, 2002, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Jon Aston ]
Posted by Santo (Member # 411) on :
I like Distinguished Design of the Month or Monthly Distinguished Design for March. I have no problem with anyone you have on the list.
Posted by Jon Aston (Member # 1725) on :
PS...
ALL HAIL THE PRAISES OF OUR BENEVOLENT DICTATOR! (You're doing a great job, Pierre!)
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
Too bad it's going to be so short lived! I won't even have time to appoint the court Ladies-in-waiting to me and Si!! Geez!
[ March 06, 2002, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: pierre ]
Posted by Rosemary (Member # 1926) on :
Oh, REALLY Mister!?! Didn't know I was on the computer in town, did you. That last darning egg lump must have worn off!
It's snowing heavy here too and the forecast is for 30 mile winds, so I'll be heading home soon. You must have finished plowing or you wouldn't be hanging out and flirting again! And I guess Mom is in the tub? She'll see this soon enough anyway. And that old "Si made me do it" isn't going to work much longer!
Posted by Santo (Member # 411) on :
Hey Pierre, you just ain't getting no respect over this!
Posted by Jon Aston (Member # 1725) on :
Guys:
Mark Fair was kind enough to drop me a note to offer any help that he could. Not being one to pass on an opportunity, I asked if he would mind sending me the images and their history from his archive. I just figured it would add a bit of depth to the new site.
Mark has no problem doing so, but would like us to include a link to his site and some mention of him as the creator of the original SOTM, in return.
I figure he deserves it and don't expect anyone to be opposed...but I thought it important to seek the blessing of the rest of you.
Any comments?
Jon
[Sheesh I'm starting to spell like OP. How bad do I smell?]
[ March 06, 2002, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Jon Aston ]
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Jon, Let me be the first to oppose.
MF was kind enough to drop you a note, thats nice. Guess you never been on the opposing end as of yet.
Posted by Mark Matyjakowski (Member # 294) on :
Jon, I (for 1) appreciate your attitude. I could see a lot of merchant/suppliers seeing this as a capitalistic opportunity to advertise themselves, but you seem to be viewing in the perspective for which it was intended (as I see it anyway).
Maybe a design-cost workshop/contest to develop logo after name is decided?
Posted by Chris Elliott (Member # 1262) on :
I vote for: DeSign of the Month for a name and Rosemary for Sgt. At Arms Posted by Rosemary (Member # 1926) on :
I like that too, Chris. And thank you! But I think it's SargETTE at arms. No? But I think Dad already has one. But he could keep my title if I could see Si in a dress! hehehe
Posted by Jon Aston (Member # 1725) on :
Joey:
It's true that I haven't been around long and I haven't ever had any sort of run-in with MF...
But here's my philosophy (I'm posting it in the hope that some (even one) of Letterville's hotheads will at least read it and maybe consider adopting it)
I don't believe in baring grudges. No good ever comes of it. Look at the middle east or Ireland as two very good examples.
There are two kinds of people. I will always seek to resolve differences (or accept them) with those who MATTER. I simply CHOOSE to forget about those who don't.
I always treat people with respect. Sometimes this is challenging. Sometimes I have to remind myself by pausing / taking a deep breath and starting my sentences with "With respect..."
"Don't take the bait" offered by those who don't matter. Too often people want/need to involve us in their personal dramas. Don't get sucked in...always take the high road. Be the bigger man (or woman).
Have a sense of humour...look for the humour in things.
A sense of fair play never hurt anybody either.
Getting back to the topic on hand, I think MF deserves credit where credit is due, plain and simple. No matter what your differences with him might be, you can't deny that MF's good will kept SOTM alive for as long as it was. Please think about it and let me know if you still don't agree.
[ March 06, 2002, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Jon Aston ]
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
I've always considered a program of this sort as necessary to the board. It really doesn't matter who does it, as long as we keep the interest and the excitement alive. It's a much better angle to have a panel of judges as the perspective and appreciation is much broader. We need to include the Vinyl Film shops as well as us painters/carvers. I'm glad this is going forward.
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Rosemary....I won't wear a dress where you can see me! Pierre said that you would get the giggles so bad, that you wouldn't be any use for a week! (Besides I don't have ant dresses that match my shotguns!)
Pierre... I am busy writing up a document for you to sign, authorizing me to start interviewing "Ladies in Waiting" for your Imperial Court.
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
M.S.D.A.
Monthly Sign/Design Award.
Only a shot.
[ March 06, 2002, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: Stephen Deveau ]
Posted by John Martin Robson (Member # 1686) on :
Why not let anyone submit work and allow everyone to vote..........instead of a quasi-democratic elitist panel of inevitable bias judges………….they’ll all turn “FRENCH” on you, just watch and see. Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
I'm cool with that too. Once a month Lettervillian vot. Why not? Any way youse guys want it is cool.
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
Jon, a history of the origination sounds great to me. We wouldn't be diving to this project now if Mark hadn't started it.
Joey, I take from your comments that you have had differences with Mark. If you two have a beef it belongs between you to work out privately. It's not clear whether you oppose the whole idea of the contest or just giving Mark any props for the initial effort. To oppose this contest because it has ties to Mark misses the point.
I see my name up there as a judge too - I already said in the other thread I'd be honored to serve. I'm definitely in, (and thanks for asking), on the condition that this is a rotating position. Kind of like Jury duty - everybody can take a turn. I'd suggest every 3 to 6 months a whole new panel is selected, whether by nomination or by appointment from the current judge.
Now, the real point of the thread - a name...some randon thoughts - Having Letterville in there would be nice. The time frame, Month or Monthly. And something to say what it is; a Contest, a Showcase, a Spotlight, an Honor Roll? How would a town recognize one of it's citizens? With a tickertape Parade?! Yeah, maybe a parade, The Letterville Parade! Ah nuts, I'm out of time and have to go. I'll get back to this ramble later.
Posted by Jeffrey Vrstal (Member # 2271) on :
Perhaps one of the perks to being a paid resident is that with that you get also become a registered voter in the (monthly yet un-named distinction). Each month we can go to the polls and cast our vote.
Posted by Jon Aston (Member # 1725) on :
How 'bout this:
I think the competition should be open to any and all comers and should be voted on by a panel of 7 judges.
ANYBODY (RES or VIS) who wants to be a judge submits their name to Pierre prior to say Monday, March 11th.
Names are sorted alphabetically. First seven are judges for first month's competition (in April, site goes up May 1st; first winner posted).
For May's competition, Guy or Gal at top of the list moves to the bottom. Next judge in line becomes 7th judge. Etc
Posted by Henry Barker (Member # 174) on :
I am honoured to be asked to take part, and continue in something I have enjoyed seeing here in Letterville over the years.
I think those of us chosen at present represent all types of different businesses with a common theme.
John your negative comments about elitism and bias, I believe are unfounded. I believe when Mark was revamping SOTM he discussed sending work out that was not signed so those involved would not be biased but judge on merits therein.
The Monthly Showcase could include a selection of work, for example an outright winner, and maybe some other categories too, to bring through newbies, sandblasted, handpainted, vinyl, design, vehicle livery etc.
We have the portfolio page, but I think some are worried about posting for fear of negativity, or perhaps are unaware of how too, through something like this we could showcase more work, encourage poeple at all levels.
Most importantly we can bring us all together in something that WE ALL feel very passionately about, learn from good design, develop together to make us better and stronger at what we do.
Waste less time on negativity towards each other. Despite the little icons down below stating "nov98" or whatever,(the date this "new" bb was born) some of us here have been frequenting this board daily since the mid nineties. Alot of good people have come and gone, alot of new great people have arrived, lets bond together, behind what we are all striving for....to produce top quality work.
I welcome the diverse group that has been nominated, I will enjoy adding a little international flavour, being a Brit living in Sweden. Lets decide a name and make a start... Posted by Rob Larkham (Member # 2105) on :
[ March 06, 2002, 11:16 PM: Message edited by: Rob Larkham ]
Posted by Rob Clark (Member # 787) on :
Not wanting to muddy the waters, but could we give some thought to categorising the entries. For example......... Beginners Hand Painted Computer generated Pictorial etc.
It would be no use if the "guns" always won, lets at least give some thought to a "beginners" prize.
I think that what I am getting at is that we don't want people thinking theiy have no chance at winning.
Is it possible to post all the entries for the month? Maybe limiting the number to be accepted?
Is there a criteria which must be met, in order for an entry to be accepted.
Just a thought or two.
RobC
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
Ok, Jon. The first seven named will be judges until I get emails from those interested in judging. We'll then create a pool of judges to be rotated by the month. This isn't hard to do and it gives a very broad spectrum of appreciation. I can maintain that aspect of the program by notification. So........all interested parties should email me when convenient.
IF, if this is how you all want it.
[ March 06, 2002, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: pierre ]
Posted by Jon Aston (Member # 1725) on :
Are we any closer to deciding on a name?
Having glanced through all of the suggestions made thus far, I don't get a sense that any of us have quite hit the nail on the head...
What about a slightly different tact:
Best Of The Best Signs and Stripes ~As selected monthly in Letterville~ (Letterville is a link to letterhead.com)
I also like the suggestion(s) that we have a few categories.
[ March 06, 2002, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: Jon Aston ]
Posted by John Martin Robson (Member # 1686) on :
Henry…….People of Letterville……… were you not paying attention during the Olympics!
My comments are not unfounded………..I understand human nature all too well.
My comments were not negative. They were not directed at any one individual………..I could care less who was picked as a judge. What I’m opposed to is picking judges period.
There is a lot of talent here, but that doesn’t mean they have a greater understanding of what is “Good”, that is for the individual to choose.
Let the collective conscience choose…………… not a selected conscience.
As far as names go………..Sign?design? whatever…….submit a name if you wish…………….then let letterville choose……have a vote……….simple
SOTM……(a gallery of work that is submitted, by the people, viewed by the people, voted on by the people)………simple.
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
No way, John! We've already mada a deal with the Russians, and the decisions will be made off the ice behind closed doors! heh..............
Posted by david drane (Member # 507) on :
How about the old Letterheads creed- IOAFSOTM. Just kidd'n. On a more serious note how about " The monthly SIGNature"
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
I LOVE DeSign of the Month. Says it all, doesn't it?
I also like the idea of everyone having a vote. However I do approve of the panel of judges too. A rotating idea is also nice, but I'd think it alot more simple if it were set up like Steve does with the monthly poll. Less homework for many involved.
I also have no problem with a history of SOTM, where it began and originated via a link for those that wish to read on it. Given the same importance of the original Letterheads vs. Letterville. There if you want to know more, but not there if you don't wish to read it.
Wonderful brainstorming everyone!
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
Donna, the more I think about it, the moreI like the "poll" thing. Good one to consider.
Posted by Joe Endicott (Member # 628) on :
How about having a panel of judges narrow the entries down to a top five-ish, then letting the masses have the final decision with a vote. Kind of a "nominating committee" sort of thing.
Posted by Roy Somers (Member # 403) on :
[ March 06, 2002, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Roy Somers ]
Posted by Jerry Steward (Member # 2420) on :
HEY HEY HEY! That was my idea! I requested a sign contest voted on by all of Letterville back in Dec. or Jan. - I forget, well, maybe I wasn't the first to think of it, but Yeah! Maybe it'll catch on this time. Call it Sign De'Ville ? Ok that stinks, well it was stilol my idea. Posted by John Martin Robson (Member # 1686) on :
DeSign of the Month.......I like it.
if Donna is nominating it.........I second it.
Posted by Jerry Steward (Member # 2420) on :
I was so excited I didn't read all the posts above at first, but a rotating panel sounds OK, not as good, but Ok. Put me on that list. Rob Clark mentioned categories, & I think Pierre also mentioned getting more vinyl shop folk involved, & that's not a bad idea either. The "beginner" category is OUT though. They don't give awards to the best beginner in the Olypmics, wait, hey - there isn't any award here, just some cool recognition. It's not that glamorous. If you're a beginner, keep tryin'. Maybe oneday they'll pick you to receive a big slap on the back! I plan on winning for the first 10 or 12 months though, so better luck next year! Does anyone else think "deSign" is hokey? Evertime I see it I cringe. Ofcoarse, I haven't got a better name (yet).
Posted by Dana Bowers (Member # 780) on :
Here's a couple of my thoughts... if anyone cares!!
As far as the name goes, stick with something like Merit of Design Excellence or something that isn't SPECIFICALLY signs. After all, isn't it actually the design itself that is being praised (as well as it's execution?)
As far as the judging goes, I have a question...
Are there THAT many people with entries climbing over each other that there needs to be a 'review' board to choose from the 100's to narrow down to three, then posting a poll and awarding it from there? If a design was entered, and did not 'win', can it be entered again and again?
If there aren't that many to sort through each month, personally I prefer a panel of seasoned, respected 'judges'. The checks and balance system between them would be better than the 'stuffing' of the ballot box that could possibly happen (who's p'off'd at who THIS month??)
Just a observation to keep in mind as well... when I had my shop and put up my signs, people around town gave me LOTS of pats-on-the-back, saying what a great job I did, etc.
That was cool and all, but when I posted something here, and some of the people I REALLY admire their work and talent said something positive about what I did... WOW. (Just ask Bruce about when Bob Harper looked through my portfolio in Vinton!!)
If there is a judging panel, there should be a good, cross the board representation of people that have the eye and experience, as well as reputation, of knowledge and talent. People who are versed and familiar with proper layout, color theory, design theory. People who, amongst themselves, cover the various aspects from hand lettering, vinyl application, specialty work, carving, pinstriping, computer work etc, etc, etc.
And maybe some comments about WHY it works. One of the coolest things we did in school was when we each would put up our sign and critique it. It's amazing when you give a group of people all the same info, the designs that come out in the end.
Just a couple thoughts.
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
VERY good schtuff, Dana. I personally prefer the panel of 7 who can be rotated once in a while. Judges comments would be very cool, and submissions by category month to month too. IE: Vinyl, Carvings, Gold Leaf work, Painted signs, Painted glass, Murals, automotive etc. changing each month. Design Excellence I like too. The new one should encompass ALL of the Letterhead shops, vinyl included.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Well, just my 2 cents.........
I'm not sure having different catagories is such a good idea. It sounds great, don't get me wrong. But, making it work successfully every month is going to be a bugger.
I think the main focus should be on DESIGN. It shouldn't matter if its on glass, vehicles, fabric, wood, vinyl, paint, digital or whatever. Its the design and concept that matters, IMHO.
One suggestion as far as this "Design of the Month" goes......keep things simple.
[ March 06, 2002, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
Years back, Mike Stevens wrote his journals and then published them as a book. Many learned from the principles he defined. He needed to arrive at an agreed upon language so we could equally and mutually discuss a design. We didn't need to agree with his definitions, except for the purpose of communicating.
Mike showed things as right and wrong, and always looked for a better way to do every layout. As a group we would break apart a design and reconstruct it as we defined the problems.
There were many that took offense at someone saying that anything could be wrong in graphics. I assumed those were the ones that wanted to stop growing, or wanted to grow alone.
For anyone to judge a sign, I'd like to have some articulate reasoning defined, rather than "I like it and it reads well." I'd like the judges to be able to offer some instruction to those reading and wanting it. I have learned that when I teach someone I usually learn more than they do. I'd like to see some credential for becoming a judge.This makes more sense to me than letting everyone take a turn.
What do you think?
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
Very well put.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Ditto.
Posted by FranCisco Vargas (Member # 145) on :
I think Rick Sacks make a valid point. And what ever name you come up with will probably go into a vote type thing anyway. So everybody...go for it! You the man Pierre!
Posted by Eric Roche (Member # 1967) on :
Hello Folks havn't been AROUND to much lately but I Cant resist this one. This sounds like a great idea and would have to agree with that a steady group of judges would really be the only way to really set a standard. You could possibly Rotate The previous months winner or winners to sit in on the panel of judges. Possibly in addition to the set panels choice also let the letterville general public or whomever visits the page to cast a vote and have the results of that posted as well. Oooooh! I'm getting excited when does it start. Anyway just a couple more things to throw in the pot. This place is great!
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I agree "keep it simple" I agree DeSign OTM is a little "Hokie" to me too. I like judges choosen on merits. Rotate Judges maybe, but not every month. Maybe every 6 mos. I really like the idea of a secondary poll from all viewers, besides the judges winners. I like the judges comments as well as winners I think a criteria should be "work completed the previous month" to keep it current. Pick a contest name judging date, list all name suggestions in one place, vote on the pre-determined day & move on to other group decisions in a similar manner.
Posted by bronzeo (Member # 1408) on :
Just a suggestion.... Sometimes there will be 2 or 3 tough decisions on a winner. I suggest that maybe 2 or 3 top nominated pieces get carried into the next month. I view a possibility of the top two pieces of the year going head to head at an unfortunate time. Jack
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
I personally think this idea is getting really technical at this point. Perhaps Mark Fair had the right idea, it was HIS concept, and HE made the rules. Whenever you get too many involved in something like this, you get too many opinions and trying to please everyone will have you heading for the hills!
It doesn't hurt to hear all these creative takes on the issue of course. Brainstorming is where great ideas are derived from.
Steve Shortreed also expressed that Letterville, or should I say, the mayor and mayoress (sp??)of Letterville don't really share the importance of a judging contest of our work. So best to tread lightly when including the words Letterville somewhere on this one. Perhaps done privately like Mark did may be in order??
Back to you Pierre! LOL! (good luck!)
Posted by Steve Purcell (Member # 1140) on :
I agree with Donna.
Showcase - great! Contest - who cares?
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
I agree with Donna too. She's always a level head.......BUT....I thought we had already swapped horses anyway. Aren't the panel of 7 going to select a "type" of signage to showcase each month? Isn't that what we decided? No contest, but a selected piece to showcase. Not a contest at all.
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