This is an open invitation to those making some of their living in the sign industry and who are talented song writers to be a part of Songpainter TWO, Sign Music By Sign People.
The rules are simple.
1. The song submitted has to be an original, instrumental or vocal.
2. It has to carry a theme that is sign related in some way. It can be comedic, romantic, satire, or rock or even country just so as it is FAMILY ORIENTATED (PG RATED)
3. The quality of the recording has to sound like a professional recording. You can use your own computer with amplifier hook ups, like was done with some of the songs in Songpainter One. You may use a KEYBOARD and add drum beats, rhythms, and then save it, and then take it into the recording studio and transfer it onto a CD.
4. You will give your permission and consent to donate the use of the recording to be included with other recordings to be sold as a fund rasing tool. You keep all rights to your music. Nobody gets a paycheck from the sales, and there may not be many. Songpainter (one) has sold 20 copies.
Music needs to be collected by me by SEPTEMBER 2002.
Lettervile Rocks Me! Lets Rock it Again! Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Songpainter II????? Arrrggghhhh....not all that again!!! Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
That's a strange title for a song, Si......but I can't wait to hear it!
Posted by Peter Manzolillo (Member # 1062) on :
Hmmmm....
Peter Frampton had the nerve to release "Frampton Comes Alive II" a few years ago...
Those marketing geniuses, KISS, gave us "KISS Alive II"....
Chicago is probably up to "Chicago XXVIII" by now, I think...
I see a dangerous trend here....
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
In all seriousness here....how is this a good idea? Far be it from to enter reality into this equation but wasn't it just a couple/three weeks ago that an entire s****torm started b/c noone bought #1 and noone understood why? Usually in the music biz its customary to sell more than 20 copies before the ink dries on a second album deal...i really am just wondering here...just a suggestion...maybe let those who have an interest in music or in a band have a little exposure? i think inquiring minds,in all seriousness want to know.
Posted by Troy Haas (Member # 472) on :
This is just my opinion, and remeber what opinions are like......
But I think restriction # 2 needs to be lifted.
I can understand and do agree the CD should be made by "Sign People", but I see nothing wrong and may encourage sales if the songs could have any subject (PG of course)
I know we have many musiclly talented people here with many wonderful songs, just not sign related.
Just a thought, it is your playground, I am just tangled up in the monkey bars... Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
Dave....I love your song Where Have All the Walldogs Gone. And also Sweep the Shop by Joe Rees. I enjoy the First SongPainter CD alot! And play it regularly. Thanks for all the great music!
Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :
Gavin,
In the words of song by the late Ricky Nelson....
"I went to a Garden Party.....
"Its all right now, I learned my lesson well. You see you can't please everyone so you got to please yourself!"
We will try to keep the Songpainter project alive if only to please ourselves. We are just a little ahead of our time. If the other Songpainters are willing, it will happen.
Cheryl, Your little song is shaping up. Its first on my list to record. I think I have the right female vocalist targeted now to sing it. That has been part of the problem getting this one recorded. We want it to be the best it can be, and the better singers are hard to find and of course are somewhat expensive. Thanks for hanging in there! Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
I agree with your reply Draper
Posted by Mikes Mischeif (Member # 1744) on :
writers block....anyone know a word that rhymes with sqeegee?
More power to ya dave. Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Mike M., how bout Hawaii... No no no no no, I mean Fiji, yeah, Fiji !!
Or, queesy,breezy,sneezy,greazzy ??
Roger Posted by paul taylor (Member # 2782) on :
Hi dave nice to meet you and are your sales of cd one going better? I like the tunes from the net and entend on purchasing a copy. On another topic music related of coarse we here in canada have some great recording artists that never see the light of day in the states. Recently I sent a barefoot signpainter a copy of kim mitchells greatest hits . I was wondering if anyone else did this type of thing to share our great cultures with each other? I would like to hear of the regional stars in the states and australia we never hear about. thanks paul and i promise i will get that signpainter cd
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
So it's official now, a call for entries, with a timeframe and everything. That suits me fine. I've got a couple things for sure, whatever Draper's working on, and I've have been campaigning for new participants every time I hear someone admit to being musical. Songpainter II will hopefully include more from Dave Ginley, and the talents of Mark Fair and Bob Parsons. Marty Happy is currently in a band though he hasn't consented to recording anything for Songpainter yet - help me badger him into it! Another head, Ed Harris has made agreeable noises. I hope we can count on Pierre again for his mastering mojo. (Weren't Rosemary and Latigo working on something also?)
I believe the concept of the original project may have went over some people's heads. It was kind of a lofty notion afterall. I'm so glad it's out there now as a symbol that these things ARE possible. The coolest thing is that it's out there for all time too - music has no expiration date. That CD, and any that will follow, will still be available 10 years from now, 20 years from now, like a piece of history. Please people, (I'm speaking to the closet musicians out there now), if you have ever harbored secret musical fantasies, this is your opportunity!
Being on this CD is not easy. You need to challenge a whole lot of personal fears, not to mention the technical issues, or expense, (or both) of pulling off a quality recording. All I can say is I will openly share all I know and assist any way possible to help it happen for you. (Anyone needing info on how to turn your PC into a competent digital audio workstation for extremely low bucks can email me privately.) I have high hopes for an enthusiastic turnout.
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
That's great Joe! Good attitude. I love the first CD as I mentioned above. There are some great songs on there to bop along with while working. And I have excellent taste in music I might add! And Paul......I love my Kim Mitchell CD! I feel very honored to have you as my friend. Thank you so much. You know my kinda music for sure! ROCK ON! (oh your Gary Moore is on it's way) Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
I'm really curious why you two seem to feel that this whole idea is "above most people's heads?" Geeze here we go again....seems it didnt go over there heads,it just passed them by b/c they weren't interested perhaps? This IS a good idea,and the quality of the disc and the music are good,i'm not knocking it it's a good job...but if people are downloading the soundclips and still not buying it......doesn't that maybe say that songs about strictly signs,while fun to play at a letterhead meet,is a concept that most find boring?? Its right up there with original dental music,origanal barber music,original toenail trim music...How excited can you get about listening to the saga of frank in his bucket truck? Or sam riding around with his new roll of gerber,2quills and a squeege? it's novel,and its cute to hear a couple of times,but after doing it 8hrs a day........ Before this turns into a bitching contest,stop and think about what i'm trying to say....i didn't post this to start a flame war,but you shouldn't have to be trying to convince people to do this project...let them submit music they actually enjoyed doing or have already completed,let em get some exposure if they have a band,make em excited about participating in it.....forcing em to write about their latest squeege or paint roller obviously ain't reeling em in...if it was,all the copies would be gone and the 2nd or 3rd pressing would be going on. Give those who couldn't otherwise have the oppurtunity to show what they can do musically a chance.....wasn't that one of the intentions of this whole deal in the first place? If you don't believe me,take a poll...see how many would volunteer vs "having to be talked into it". Listen to your audience instead of declaring that they're not able to understand what you're doing....believe me if they didn't understand,noone would bother to listen to the clips or make a reply like this...just my .02
[ March 01, 2002, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: Gavin Chachere ]
Posted by FranCisco Vargas (Member # 145) on :
I'm not a debating you, but Gavin I think you should reconsider about doing a song about yourself or your experiences, you hit a good couple of them in your post. If you really hear a song, it can be about anything...a woman-man-child, a flower, a car, a building, a hurricane, a horse with no name...you make the call. From your writing, looks like you could pull out a good couple of lyrics, ok maybe you don't sound like Garth Brooks, but your song can be song by someone else. Just an observation Dave just curious why didn't you ask Cheryl to try out for the singing of her own song?
Posted by paul taylor (Member # 2782) on :
great points by cisco and gavin. I am sure amount all the creative talent that comes to this board everyday that some great combo s of songs singers and musicians could come to light. A little off topic stuff would be great for songs.
Posted by Rosemary (Member # 1926) on :
Dad says he'll do it again, and Lat and I will have two for you. A guy one and a girl one, but the girl one will be cooler. :^)
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
Ok Gavin, I'll try to ignore the sarcasm, resist the urge to feel slighted*, and focus on the point that seems to be your complaint - making Songpainter just "Music by Sign People" instead of "SIGN Music by Sign People". Does that about sum it up?
Surprise - I do not have a problem with that. Either way is fine with me. I signed on to this project some time after the 'rules' had been hashed out. It never occured to me to question them. I can see your point. I can see the original point too. Is one better? I don't know. Would one have wider appeal and sell more copies? I don't know. Would Songpainter II be a better project if that was lifted? Or would it be lessened, watered down, generi-fied? Again, I do not know.
What I DO know is every song on the CD stands on it's own as a quality piece of music - sign theme notwithstanding. I do know of 1 song that was not included on the original CD because of the theme. Were there other potential contributors that held back submissions because of that restriction? Maybe, probably even. The question remains, does an unrestricted theme make Songpainter a better idea? Well, I guess that's up to the entire community, which ultimately must vote with it's wallet.
The intention of the project was to be a creative outlet and showcase, while serving as a fundraising vehicle for Letterville. Speaking for myself, it accomplished the first part of that wonderfully. But the lagging sales speak for themselves in how it has (so far) failed on the fund raising part. I wish I knew why. I'm not necessarily ready to chuck the whole theme concept and say "yup, that's the problem, get rid of the sign theme and these babies will sell like hotcakes". I'm more inclined to think the original idea is sound and that it's simply that since this is a "concept album" that it will take longer for people to get around to accepting it. Maybe that's just the nature of the beast.
I can think of about four possible viewpoints:
1- "I'd only buy a CD if it was sign related, that's what makes it special".
2- "I'd only buy a CD if it was NOT sign related, theme albums are hokey".
3- "I'd buy a CD, no matter what the theme, just to support Letterville".
4- "I'd never buy a CD from Letterville no matter what was on it"
If anybody want's to help clarify this, your constructive input is appreciated. Thanks.
------------------------------------------ (*Hey, I'm sorry to even acknowlege my own negative reaction to your statements. (And I don't think they were aimed at me personally). But I do want you to understand I've got a lot of personal feelings invested in my contributions to Songpainter. Naturally, I wanted everybody to love it and embrace it. It's troubling to see public controversy erupt over something that was offered as a heartfelt endeavor to share. If it never catches on with the masses, oh well, I will still be glad I did it. And for as long as it may evolve I will remain active in it, and maybe, privately, just a little bit protective of it. If it is not your cup of tea, I can easily live with that. If there's something bitter about the tea that could be sweetened to make it more enjoyable to a larger audience, then I appreciate that input. That's the way I hope it was meant and that's how I want to view it.
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
Hooray Rosemary, that is awesome news!
Posted by John Lennig (Member # 2455) on :
Hey Paul from Nova Scotia.... How about that Jonathan Edwards, eh! I've only got his "Lucky Day" album, but it's so fine. "...They said I would shine like the light in the city, I hoped it would be like the moon on the sea..."
Re: Songpainter.... The Instrumentals are just waitin' for you to add your own words, suited to your current situation.
the mahlstick rythym(sp) stction.
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
Joe, may I add one more possiblity to your list?
5. I'd only by a CD if I liked the TYPE of music that was on it. (blues? jazz? rock? synthisizer stuff sp?)
Another thought to consider once the collection grows. Here's a blues one, here's a pop one... after all, that's how most music is sold.
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
Holy Cripes Donna, I didn't even think of that! You mean there could be a Be-Bop Songpainter, a Techno Songpainter, a Rap Songpainter and even an Easy Listening? Everyone to drop that mouse right now and run down to your nearest music store and sign up for lessons - we need you ALL! Motown move over. I wonder, will the Boston Pops ever "DO" Songpainter?
Seriously though, this thread seems to have died down and maybe that's a good thing. But if the issue of theme is a real factor in people's buying decision, somebody with a strong opinion about it might post it as a new topic. If there really is a strong anti-song-theme sentiment out there that is blocking the flow of this project let's air it. I don't want to start it, and think I should back out at this point with the promise that I'll stay involved in the project no matter what.
Posted by Jon Aston (Member # 1725) on :
Somewhat OT, but a couple of suggestions:
Why not organize Songpaiter JAM SESSIONS at some forthcoming meets?
OR
After the CD is done, get the perpetrators together to perform their songs at a meet.
Could bring mobile recording gear and capture the events for posterity.
Put me down for a CD and tell me where to send the money.
Posted by Ryan E Young (Member # 2325) on :
Well said Donna. I dont hate Letterville I just dont like all types of music.
Posted by Jerry Steward (Member # 2420) on :
Now a songpainter jam session, that's an idea! I am much more interested in buyin a CD if I was face to face with somebody on it, & actually heard them play. I've met Jack Murray, & he writes & plays, but I don't believe he's been involved yet. I would say just by visiting here, that without speakers, yes, no speakers! I get the impression the music is all bluegrass-folk type stuff. I like some of that, but not enough to listen to a whole CD full. I want to hear a wide variety. That's why I listen to college radio. Metal, reggae, polka, whatever! I'd even be interested in getting in a start-up band to play at the Mars meet this summer. That's all I have to say about it. Good luck & keep tryin'!
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