i gave up trying to do a dry application of the 3M graffiti overlaminate (3M #1150), so i'm using RapidTac and having better results. my question is, how "wet" should the sign be before i lay down the vinyl? i was doing sort of a light mist, but then i tried a bit more and it seems better. do i want it "wet, wet, wet"? how much fluid should come out the edges when i squeegee the stuff?
Posted by Brian Hays (Member # 2130) on :
I would say ALL the fluid hadta come out! but like you I am no expert!
Posted by Shane French (Member # 2098) on :
Well, I'm no Rapid-Roger, Scooter, but I'll tell you what I do:
Spray enough to fully saturate the substrate, you don't need a flood of the stuff, not so much that it drips down, but just past the point of 'mist'. But from my experience, 'too much' usually isn't a problem, as long as you squeegee it out promptly.
hope that helps. -shane
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
Remember
There are two surfaces you are trying to control.
Spray a light mist on the sub-straight and a light mist on the vinyl.. Then contact the two together!
Rollers work Wonders.
Good Luck.
[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: Stephen Deveau ]
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
You need a decent amount.. not so much that it starts running and dripping everywhere but enough that when you go to squeegee it out, the vinyl actually moves to allow the fluid to escape instead of collecting in pockets (creating bubbles) because the vinyl has already stuck to the surface in some areas.
I've gotten better results spraying both the application surface and the back of the vinyl with lighter sprays.
It's also gonna depend on your climate. When Im in Arizona I have to use more RapidTac cause everything dries out fast there, and I've had the RT dry up before I even had the chance to lay the graphics down. When I'm in Missouri I have to go light cause it takes longer to dry.
Basically, whatever you are comfortable with.
Posted by ScooterX (Member # 2023) on :
thanks guys! i guess i hadn't been using enough fluid (i was getting trapped bubbles) because i was afraid it "wouldn't dry" or something. the wetter method is definately better -- the stuff's working great now.
Posted by Kathy Joiner (Member # 1814) on :
Scooter, something that works for me is a sponge. I like to wet both surfaces, but I run the sponge very lightly over the vinyl (no pressure, just touching)to spread evenly. Be careful not to rub or pass the sponge over too much because you don't want to remove any of the adhesive.
Posted by Rob Larkham (Member # 2105) on :
When I do it wet, I wet the crap out of it. I put a little behind my ears and some in the old armpits too. Slicker than snot!
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
If you spray the vinyl then tap lightly you will feel the tackyness, then smooth the fluid around (like Kathy's sponge idea, but even just by hand)if you feel the adhesive now it will be less tacky.
Posted by RonniesTintSigns (Member # 1669) on :
Scooter, Everything I do has to be done quickly because of high volume, so to make it quick & simple wet the hell out of it, and stick it. It will dry. Most small stuff I do dry but larger stuff requires Rapid tac ( Roger) to remain bubble free & fast. I can do large graphics dry but it's more time consuming. One tip put a good mist on the vinly itself to much can cause the vinyl to start to fall off the transfer tape to soon but the substrate wet it, wet it, wet it. The sponge idea if your busy would take up to much time. Weed it , Wet it, Stick it !
Posted by Tony B (Member # 935) on :
I just did a wells cargo trailer (12') and had some large letters to put on it. I usually go dry with a roller but I went wet with RT. I squeeged the thing but man I can't get the thing to dry! I sprayed the transfer tape to take it off, but even after a while the graphic still wants to pull up with the tape.
I sprayed a mist on the substrate and the vinyl. The graphic has the main copy with a 1/2" outline (gapped, not layered behind the main copy) this is where I'm havin the problems. I passed a little heat on it to dry it but still not happy. The large stuff turned out ok though. Things that make ya go aaaahhh!
[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: Tony B ]
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Tony, are you using high tac clear transfer tape? That's my first guess as I have been there before but never had a problem releasing paper tape.
If you are using the clear tape, just keep working it with more pressure and get the project out in the sun to help speed it along a little.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Hey, this is pretty neet! I can't beleive how many of you "got it right" !!
Wet the heck out of it (so it won't cause dry spots) which are "bubble traps"
Wet both substrate and vinyl !
Tony, what did you clean with, before using Rapid Tac?? Hopefully nothing, cause almost everything will contaminate the system. Just clean with Rapid Tac/Rapid TacII or Rapid Prep(then clean again with R.T./R.T.II
Also, only wipe with "cheap,cheap,cheap grocery store paper towells, big important issue there!!!!
Thanks for the help you guys!!!
Roger
Posted by Steve Nuttle (Member # 2645) on :
Jee whiz, I thought my browser had gone whacky and taken me to an "adult" site. how wet is wet? Sorry couldn't resist! Posted by The Moon (Member # 452) on :
Me too Steve!
With the wet wet topic and the "7 inches" lead in on another post I thought our OT posts had taken on a new meaning of Off Topic!
The nasty girl thinking side of the Moon
Posted by Diane Crowther (Member # 120) on :
Always be generous with the Rapid Tac, but there are times where I get it sopping wet. These are the times where I might want to lift up the vinyl to reposition it, or if I'm completely covering a substrate with a large piece of vinyl. My rule of thumb is: "Will I be crying if two dry areas contact prematurely?" If the answer is yes, spritz it again! Naturally, if it's sopping wet, it will take a lot longer to dry, so it's usually the type of job I have in the shop and can leave overnight to dry.
Don't forget to use Rapid Tac to aid in the removal of the transfer tape. Even if I lay vinyl dry, I use Rapid Tac to remove the transfer tape with.
I'm finding that even jobs which I used to lay dry I now give a spritz of Rapid Tac because I'm happier with the results. Plus it smell's soooo good!
Posted by ScooterX (Member # 2023) on :
i'm glad i asked the question. i wasn't expecting such a response to a "simple" question. i got the stuff wetted down and it worked great
(they ought to print that on the label... plus, they need to fix that tabel typo, but that's another story.)
("there are no simple questions, only simple people.")
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Diane, if you are following directions(not cleaning with anything but Rapid Tac stuff, and wipeing with approved paper towell)Then, you should NOT have to wait any longer then a couple minutes for vinyl to bond.
Now there are some things you may not know here; Rapid Tac- designed for "cast premium" vinyl.
Rapid TacII- designed for everything else(mylar,polyester,metalized,mirrored,econemy,intermiadte,reflective )!!!
Also, if your working in cold weather(under 40 degrees f,) then Rapid TacII will give your vinyl(all) faster bonding times I have applied "cast vinyl" to the "frozen interior" of a freezer compartment at "R&J sign supplies" in the lunch room,in 90 seconds(yes I took off the trans tape right after too).
Barry's jaw droped, and they placed they're first order! Used to do it for folks at trade shows too, and I always "get it wet,wet,wet,wet" like a flood!
