Okay, I order the materials, he never faxes back the approved fax - so that I can go on with the
signs. I finally call his partner, whom got upset because his name and number was going to be on the sign. He said that he didn't know where this guy was, that he thought that they were not going to need the signs. Finally I reach the partner that ordered the signs, he verifies that they have shown the building, and that the people may take the location. I requested that he pay for the materials and he laughs and said that he
never "officailly ordered" the signs - meaning he didn't sign the final fax and return it to me.

Well, after waiting a week (his suggestion) I called and he returned my call saying that he was after all going to order the signs, then asked if I could do better on the price. I replied no I couldn't. He signs, faxes and I make the signs and install them yet on another HOLIDAY, so that we could meet our ASAP install job date. When I go to collect on the signs, (faxing the invoice to his office (in his home) - he calls the next
afternoon and tells my partner that he is in texas and that he will get me a check on Friday
when he returns. Well Friday afternoon I called to see if I could pick up the check ( I need the money due to financial problems) He told me "NO, I don't have a check for you!" - when I asked why...(he used to be the one that always paid me)
HE replied that he had left it with his partner to pay, and that he would mail it. Well, I asked them not to mail it, that I needed the money to pay a few bills, and he said that he would check on it and see what he could do. WELL....I went the weekend without being paid, no calls..etc...

Monday, I have to go out and my partner had called while I was out to see if he had the
check yet. No return calls... so I drive by to
just check...(I WAS IN THE AREA - I had taken my son to the Dr.) He answered the door and said that
he didn't know anything about the payment (check) and that he got all my messages. I told him that I wasn't trying to harrass him, that I was just checking to see while I was out. HE WAS terrible,
he accused me of harrassing, and said that I was dealing with "PROFESSIONAL BUSINESS PEOPLE" and that I needed to give appropriate amount of time, when dealing with them. I told him that I thought that I had...(***THE BILL STATED COD****)
He was talking as loud as he could..hoping that his neighbors could hear, he attacked me about me running customers away, when I am in a finacial
crisis, and that he didn't know that he wanted to
do business with me anymore. I told him that was fine, and if he called for more signs that I was
going to ask for payment up front. He just wouldn't quit the way he was acting.

He again stated that he had tried to get the partner to let him know of the status of the bill and that he was sure it was in the mail. (which I asked him not to do...our usps is so slow...it will take over a week) anyway, I need your advise.

Here I sit, making very little money, and have a sick child, I am sick too and just avoiding going to the dr. I can't afford it.

Did I do wrong? what can I do? Since the bill stated COD and he left without even notifing me
of where to turn in a bill... all of a sudden theres a partner.

Can I do anything else? OR have I done enough?

I really trust your advise...thanks...

From your story, you have every legal right to be paid. Voluntarily or involuntarily. It's highly unlikely you will ever do work for this guy again, so don't worry about preserving any kind of professional relationship with him. HE is the one with questionalbe ethics here, not you. Get mad, do whatever it takes to collect (small claims), and learn from it.

You didn't mention how much money is involved. It may feel a little stupid to ask for a half down deposit on a small dollar job, especially from an established account - but you can see clearly now what the consequences can be. Perhaps a new, ironclad company policy of half down on orders over (pick a number) $400, and full payment in advance for orders under that amount, would work for you. Don't laugh, it's not that strange, and getting more and more common in our shop. We have an order in house right now that pre-paid for $750. Those are my favorite jobs. As the value of money drops, I simply can't afford to suffer clients who have trouble writing a deposit check. They are the ones who will have trouble paying a balance due also. BIG RED FLAG!
 

Gather up the fax reports and invoices, at least they can offer some proof that there was clear communication regarding the payment details, especially if it was noted COD on the invoice.

You may or may not be able to get the money out of him, you might just have to chalk this one up to experience.
 

be professional, don't antagonize.

after they pay, ask for a deposit next time you do work for them.

i can speak from experience, cause i have been there.

hang in there, tomorrow will be a better day.
 

I don't know if you have this on your invoices yet, but it sure helps to have it on there:

"A fee of 1.5% will be added monthly to all unpaid monies."

That is the legally accepted amount in my area..."fair amount." Think about it, which bill would you pay first, the ones who let you pay late without acrueing interest?...um no, the ones that turn into a credit card type nightmare if not nipped in the bud. Just smack it on the invoice, in case sompn like this happens again. Believe me, they notice it!

That way when they ask for a break, you can tell em, "Yeah, pay on time and ya won't have to pay the late fee, phwahaha!"

If they want to treat you like a finance company, hehehe, there's money in that as well. Sure it'd be an ideal world if clients paid on time, sometimes there's one just like you described and with his performances, seems like you got a doosey. I'm sorry you're having a bad week but this too shall pass!

You have great advice up there, praying helps a great deal, small claims court, I've never had to do yet, but waiting on a check can be a pain in the butt. I hope they straighten up, but from what you described, it's unlikely.

Document everything, keep a folder on em, get a report from the police if they show up, for any reason, and hang on to that too!
 

I dug this out of the archives. I posted it a while back. I'm sorry if you need the money but if he just won't give it up, have some fun with him.

If a customer has screwed you and you just don't know what to do, take a couple of ideas from my handbook.
1. The Wife will kill him trick- Send the male who has screwed you a dozen roses with a card attached. On the card write any female name. His wife will freak out. He may be able to talk his way out of this, so in about one month send him a second dozen from the same woman. Seal the deal by having a female call during the day and leave a message on his machine from the same woman. The divorce will cost him more than anything he screwed you out of.

2. The mailing list trick- It is easy enough to sign someone up for many mailing lists. I know of someone who was put on over 200 one time. This has a snowball affect. Soon they will be on thousands. Pick up hunting magazines, womens magazines and go to the back. There you will find countless 800 numbers. Call and ask for free samples and catalogs to be sent to this jerk. You will be amazed on how much stuff you can send for a thirty day trial period. Then of course the customer has to send back the unwanted merchandise. Don't be afraid to find stuff that says "bill me later". You will be amazed at how much fun this can be.

3. The Army recruiter trick- Sign him up for the military. Those recruiters are relentless. They just won't take no for an answer. Maybe set up a lunchen date for the jerk and the recruiter.

4. The old Columbia records and tape trick- Sign him or her up with the Columbia records and tape club about a dozen times. Make sure you sign them up for Gangster Rap or Classical music. This will drive them nuts. It should take them about 6 to 7 years to get out of those clubs.

5. and last but no least- Have an affair with their spouse. Take plenty of pictures and mail them to them!

Enjoy!!!
 

Although it seems like good advice, a sign shop CAN NOT go take signs off the customer's property even if he didn't pay for them. Just FYI!

Jan & Wanda,

Collection agency's or a letter from an atroney works the best for us.

We, unfortunately, bill for a great deal of sign work. They are regular customers, and they take from 30 to 120 days to pay.

What the collection agency needs for you to do so they have some TEETH in what they do is to make sure the bill says something to the effect that the customer who signs the order is "professionaly and personaly responsible for prompt payment." ( and sign it)

Also it needs to state that collection fees are additional expenses the customer will incur.

We place a $25.00 additional late charge fee (screw the intrest charge of 1%) after EACH 15 days of late payment. LOOK at the late fees your credit card chages you if you are 1 day late!

We always get the late fee when they pay.

Also, Its good business to mark the price of your signs up 40%...then tell the customer if they want the job for a better price, then you tell them "You do something for me, I'll make the price better, way better....get out your check book and pay me NOW and I'll drop the price 30%.

The best customers we have never ask the price. We never over charge them, but we do have to wait 30 days to get paid, and we do add a percentage on the top of the bill to cover the inconvience.

The next best thing to do is start taking VISA / Mastercard / DISCOVER. When the order comes in, make them drop the card number. When they pick up the signs and can't pay, then you tell them you will go ahead and process the bill on the card, just like a motel does.

Things work smoother when you run your business like a business, instead of a hobby. There are some professional "business coaches" in just about every large community that you can hire for a few 1 hour sessions that will teach you how to run you business properly, what to do and what not to do. It will pay for itself over and over.

The basic concept is to identify how customers will hurt you and how to creatively side step problems and get the customer to react the proper way. Give him an inch and he WILL take a mile.
So don't give him an inch. Never ever let a customer hurt you again. Once in your lifetime is enough to get screwed out of payment.

You may be surprised to know that some businessmen know exactly how far they can go to "float" bill paying. The longer they can hold off paying, the more they use YOUR money with out interest. Realtors, insurance companies and building contractors have the "float" down to a science and work it like a religion. I found this out after I joined BNI, a business networking group. The businessmen who attend are well aware of the "FLOAT" and give creative tips to get their money.

The good news is, if you loose a job to another sign shop because the customer wont pay up front when you demand your money, be assured the sign shop down the street that does do the job wont get paid either. The customer who knows the "FLOAT" will go to shop after shop till he finds his prey.

Looks like he found you. Sorry. You need a business coach.
 

UPDATE: today (thursday) I received a check for the total amount and it was mailed on the 29th.
As far as professionalism goes...it was in an envelope with my name scribbled on it..with my address. NO RETURN ADDRESS!! gee real professional! NOT~! Anyway, its here, I made a few frantic trips to the bank etc... just in time
(hopefully) - now I can breathe for a bit.

I usually do ask for 50% down.. but this one time, I figured "well its just a week away from now, I can wait until then." Little did I know that this guy was gonna change the rules... now it will be very strict! I am also looking for a job... I got a call for an interview at a Dr's office...actually a dentist. Wish me luck!
At least this way, if I get that job, I can quit
worrying so much...but then I will have to get my health straight too... so off to the Dr tomorrow.
BTW - my son is doing better... Dr says its nothing serious. Thanks for all the encouragement
and advise.... I guess I will postpone the call to the florist! THANKS!!

 

Thanks for updatin us...still snickering about the florist! hahahaha!
 

I worked for a shop and we cut down an Arby's sign when they didn't pay. Gave them warning that we were going to reposesse the sign on a certain date, we did and they paid the bill and the bill to reposses it and reinstall it.

Also, have a clause in your contract about rockage, etc. when you do an install. It can be tough to up the price after the fact if you don't.
 

Please...don't be offended but it really is true, "burned once shame on him, burned twice shame on me".

Never get so intent on getting the job that you ignore all the warning signs of a sneak. If I had the reaction I got from your customer the first time, the only way I would have approached the job would have been to be paid up front.

Nothing less would be satisfactory...if he was offended by that...well hey...you wouldn't be writing this post.

I am a firm believer that you train your customers to be good customers or bad customers.

I can tell from your post, you need the money, but blow this off and get busy finding more and better work...more and better customers. This jerk will either pay or not pay, just keep tabs on them and apply pressure when you have time.

If they pay, consider it a bonus. If not consider it an expensive lesson you'll never forget...in either event it becomes a positive experience. Something everyone needs!

hahaha...well serves me right for not reading the posts...glad to see you got your money (it doesn't change my opinion nor my advise).

The name of this sign game has always been "GET THE MONEY"!
"Werks fer me ...it'll werk fer you"

[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: Monte Jumper ]

[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: Monte Jumper ]