In an effort to help upcoming sign artist with thier questions. I have noticed that much like our customers,there is a need to educate,for clarification reasons. Too often do our pre-conceptions of what is,and what is not,hinder the advise given. FOR EXAMPLE:A "font" by definition,is a certain Letter Style that includes Symbols,Numbers,and Pucuation Marks! NOT ALL LETTER STYLES COME IN A COMPLETE FONT FORMAT. You might think that this is a mundane issue,but I beg to differ. "POSTER PAINT" in the sign industry,is way different than the Poster Paint found in the Art/Craft Store! As Showcard Writers use One Shot Poster Paint for its drag,flat finish,drying time,and useage of a lettering quill. The lettering is done on "POSTER BOARD" (hence the name) I belive this would help the Newbies,if we were all on the same page when trying to explain things.
Are there any other terms you have noticed specific to the sign trade,that might go along the same lines as the Poster Paint Senerio?
Posted by PKing (Member # 337) on :
Here is another term to address,"GRAPHICS" This is a Stark Contrast As in Graphic Discription. He died (Graphicly)He was run over by a car with blood and guts all over. In the Printing Trade,it is a Black line on a white background. While in the sign trade,it is Liner Art or clipart
Hope this helps
Posted by Mark Fuller (Member # 2128) on :
Hi Pat
A term I learned in school was "subsrtate", yet I always have to explain.
Is it me or an outdated term?
Mark
Posted by Ralph Lyon (Member # 2351) on :
No it's not you. I have to explain also.
OK now I'll ask I keep seeing "OT" what is that...
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
OT=Off-Topic
Posted by CJ Allan (Member # 52) on :
Pat........ I think this kinda goes back to the point Timi was trying to get across on an earlier thread........ In going back to "LEARNING BASICS!!" Ya gotta learn them "FIRST!" !
Posted by David Fisher (Member # 107) on :
Heres a useful term. Ohnosecond - That fleeting moment in which you realise you have made a serious stuffup. David
Posted by PKing (Member # 337) on :
You are RIGHT! CJ Maybe Timi and the rest of us "OLD SCHOOLERS" Should correct individual questions with correct answers. Then HOPE it will be taken in the spirit it is given as the "Standard"
ABOUT the word "substrate" This genaral term is used as a (catch all)for any and all materials other than ON LOCATION surfaces being lettered on.
Are Snappers,food you order,types of fish,or loose term for sign painters?
Posted by CJ Allan (Member # 52) on :
Snappers...Food ?? Hmmmmmmmm.....I dunno, but I did run into this broad once that..........Hmmmmmmmmm Posted by Chris Lovelady (Member # 2540) on :
snapper: a sign painter with loose terms!
hehehe
Posted by Ken Henry (Member # 598) on :
Hi Pat. Here's one I'm certain you know the meaning of, but it sure might confuse the heck out of others. The term is : Cut-In Letters
Most folks who've worked with brushes would know this term, but it sort of lends itself to other interpretations by vinyl applicators, and maybe even carvers too.
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
Yes I still have a hard time using the word 'font'. I am so use to 'letterstyle'. Also remember shocard. I always spelled it that way. Was never sure if it was supposed to be 'showcard'.(?) Also to this day I say 'layout' instead of design, sample or mockup. In my days it was always L a y o u t. I still get weird looks on that one.
Posted by CJ Allan (Member # 52) on :
Good to hear words that, to me, have always been just the natural things to say....... Shocard and Letterstyle has always worked for me, and most likely will continue to do so.
I know I don't do fonts...
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Letterstyle seems less challenging to the average customers vocabulary, but the increasing popularity of home computers is changing that.
I think layout, for me, often implies the neccessary "design" work required to fit basic graphic elements & copy into a given space, but not charged as a design. Once I collect an "art" fee my layout becomes a design.
I never heard of the term "graphic" being limited to black & white, but in my relativly limited experience it has often been applied to illustrations not photographic or extremely realistic in nature.
I think there are lots of unfamiliar sounding terms & phrases for tools, tasks, & aspects of our work that may not be familiar to our customers.
pounce, frisket, mask, reverse panel, reveal, registration, camera ready, digitize, vectorize, pixel, bleed, process printing, deposit (HeHe), moire, trap... anyway the list goes on!
Posted by PKing (Member # 337) on :
Hay Everyone, Thanks for the input on this subject that as sign people we should all know and use when discussing our tricks and tips between each other! Once again,the customer doesn't know,nor should they. That is why they pay us!!!!! Most of the confussion when newbies are looking for information and or answers. Is that they are using "Layman Terms" as opposed to professional jargon. As it seems natural for us to understand that one must Design a Layout for signs. The customer(and others)don't realize that it all starts with a "thumbnail" sketch in which the design is improved on,BEFORE the layout is made either directly on the material or pattern paper to accomplish the end result. That is how I have to do it.As I seem to have LOST my Majic Wand that normally is waved over the sign blank in order for the letters to appear on it. he he he
Doug A Picture is a Rendition not a Graphic hope this helps
Any others?????
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
Here's one - Pictorial. You know, a hand-painting of a picture. When commercial artists do that it's called Illustration. And if you're not that good at it, it's an Ill-ick-torial.
[ January 25, 2002: Message edited by: Joe Rees ]
Posted by PKing (Member # 337) on :
Thanks Joe, As a teaching tool(for proper instruction)I belive it is very important to be able to communicate amongest each other. I can always remember how hard of a learning curve from hand painting to computer it was for me. Seems like everyone KNEW what They were talking about,'cept me. They just assumed I already knew what a "browser"was,when telling me I would need to go there. Only after someone EXPLAINED it was the Long White rectangle,located immediately above the Window I was typing on. Did I under stand. I am hoping that I do not make the same mistake,when giving answers to someones question.
Keep the SIGN-BONICS coming! Thanks
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
Now that you brought it up Pat... for those of you that wonder what a "Snapper" is...they were itenerate sign painters that didn't have a shop where they could make patterns...to compensate they laid everything out by hand and used a snapline stretched from pinky finger to pinky finger of each hand and snapped it with the first two fingers of either hand (try this sometime)to make their baselines for their lettering.
The term now is more of a derogatory term for what some consider to be a "hack" sign painter.
I still know some "Snappers" and THEY wear the name proudly. hehe "snapped " a few jobs muh self...shhhh!
[ January 26, 2002: Message edited by: Monte Jumper ]
Posted by ScooterX (Member # 2023) on :
Here's how i use sign jargon:
Substrate: a piece of MDO that costs $129 (to the customer). ... Plywood: the same piece of MDO sold for $39 by the discount sign shop.
Overlay Lettering: lettering cut out of vinyl ... Vinyl Letters: the same letters, sold cheaply. ...
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
There are a lot of things that have been changed due to technology.
What was an x-acto knife...is now a "cutting tool" on my puter.
What was a Pounce wheel is now a "perferating tool"
What was an employee is now "a mouse"
What used to be a sign is now called "product"
Posted by PKing (Member # 337) on :
Interesting that a Rose by any other name is STILL a Rose! Changing names,adding hype,charging different. Will NOT improve the speed,accuratcy,quality,or price of a well made Information Board. Which is all that signs will ever be. Any more?????
Posted by FranCisco Vargas (Member # 145) on :
Here's one for you Pat..."Knock out" like a knock out sign. A sign that is quick to complete.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
quote: ...Changing names,adding hype,charging different. Will NOT improve the speed,accuratcy,quality,or price...
If charging different is not improving your price, then your charging different wrong.
Posted by PKing (Member # 337) on :
Cisco;The "quickie stroke" is even listed in the Signwriters Pricing Guide. Using this kind of stroke,would produce a KNOCK OUT JOB(good one)
Doug;You missed the JOKE of "information board" as compared to Advertising Space.
Thanks
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Cabinet or booth?
I just refinished my kitchen booths with glass doors so its easier to see the dishes and added a corner cabinet with table in the center
HAVE A NICE DAY Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
A little bit of quibbling on the definition of "font". A letterstyle of a particular point size. One could have a bunch of fonts of a given letterstyle, and the only difference is in the size of each. FWIW, point size is a term usually referring to newsprint, with one inch of height equalling 72 points.
Also, I wonder how many of us on the BB are familiar with the "cutting-in" bit. It was fast, but not guaranteed to produce a long lasting line of copy.
Just the little kid and me-- our .02 worth.
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
1 Electric Peferating! (Electro pounce system)
2 Snap Lining! (Chaulk Line)
3 Cripple Stick! (Malstick)
4 Shoeing! (Cutting the adheisve(SP) back on the masking tape you use!)
Posted by John Lennig (Member # 2455) on :
Nose grease, used in conjunction with old paint rag,(doubles as a handkerchief) to get that smear of paint off the thing being lettered. Finish up with bit o' spit on same rag (different spot) and (watch for boogers) you're ready to letter again. Don't used this technique on skhowcards or tyvek/paper banners.
