The Letterville BullBoard: Paint & Brushes

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Posted by Randy W. Robarge (Member # 2022) on :

The only painting I've done in the past is house painting. The only painting I do now is airbrush (blends) on vinyl.

I would like to start practicing some simple painting techniques and get familiar with using brushes and such, and I have a few questions.

I would like to use latex paint being it is easier to get my hands on.

1. What brushes should I use for latex paint? For now, I'm just looking to paint after pouncing a pattern. Kind of the fill-in-the-lines sort of thing. I won't even attempt trying to letter anything by hand.

2. For practicing on little things, what is the difference between latex paint (say, Benjamin Moore) and using the little bottles of acrylic paint at Walmart? My wife has tons of the little acrylic paints that she paints those ceramic houses with. How is this different from latex paint?

I'm sure these things have been covered before so forgive me if they seem out dated.

Thanks.
Randy

Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :

Hi, Randy,

You pose an interesting question, and there are most likely as many answers as there are regulars on the BB

The only difference that I can guess about on latex (Ben Moore) versus Walmart would be the cost per ounce, the little bottles being way more expensive.

Brushes for water based paint usually fall in the class called sables, or show card. Never used them, but I would guess they don't handle the same as quills or flats made for oil-based. For that matter, I don't think latex handles anything like oil-based either. Latex is also going to behave badly on an oil base painted substrate.

You mentioned working on small stuff. How small? The tighter you try to work, or letter, the harder it becomes to do a well-shaped letter. Every flaw shows big-time.

I would suggest that you try to get ahold of some one-shot, and some quills or flats- either "browns" or "grays"- of various sizes, and practice with them, rather than investing in sables and latex. All brushes are pricey to one extent or another. Use black for practice. That way, you can concentrate on your letter forms, and not worry about coverage. Your investment will be smaller in the long run.

There aren't too many books on lettering and how to do it anymore. One of the best IMHO deals with pen lettering, and is called Speedball. The author shows the use of a wide-ended pen and how to stroke letters with thick and thin elements. A wide ended pen isn't that much different from a brush, and the same principles apply.

Last, practice on a sans-serif style letter in the beginning. They also show flaws in a big way, and that's the whole point. Get them down, and then go on to the serif and fancier styles.

Just my .02, hope it helps.

[ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: Bill Preston ]

Posted by Dan Sawatzky (Member # 88) on :

Some folks swear by acrylic paint. The legendary Gary Anderson is one of them.

I personally use it 50 to one over Oneshot. Acrylic is so much easier (less stinky) to work with.

For cars and metal surfaces oil base the only way... Oneshot or vinyl and not acrylic.

All paint is not created equal. Benjamin/Moore used to be my paint of choice but they changed their formula a few years ago and it doesn't cover like it used to.

I now use General Paint but that is only available in Western Canada I believe.

So ask around... and I'm sure others here know beter than I.

But then again... if I were doing mostly flat work on MDO or prepared surfaces I would probably be swearing by OneShot. It is great paint and easy to work with as far as control and flow... in fact there is nothing better in that regard.

The best way for you to figure out what you want or need it to experiment. The practice will make you better too!

-dan

Posted by Randy W. Robarge (Member # 2022) on :

Thanks guys, excellent information!

When I said I was going to practice on "small" stuff, I was just referring to practicing on paper (poster size paper). And being my wife has all sorts of the acrylic stuff, I figured, why not use her paint for practice!

Thanks again.
Randy

Posted by Linda Silver Eagle (Member # 274) on :

Randy,

I have to wander about your knowledge thus far, of brushes...not knowing, the simplest answer I can give is...the thicker the paint, the stiffer the bristles.

Bill's right, the best flow comes from 1-Shot, when you try it you'll understand how important flow is...hehehe. I can't imagine flow with the little bottles from Wally World. I have a crate of those and different brushes for them...to me it's like painting with melted plastic. Synthetic hair brushes may work with those, bristles can take more abuse.

See if you have a Michael's in your area, they have aisles and aisles of brushes. Better yet, go to Mac Brush link on this site and drool there.

Go play with your wife's paint a bit and see which does best with what...before you buy anything.

The goal would be to find the brush that can make the longest and cleanest (consistent clean edge) stroke. If you can do a letter in 2-3 strokes as opposed to dabbing at it for an hour your getting better...hehehe!

Good luck with your investigation.

Posted by timi NC (Member # 576) on :

Even tho it may suit your purposes for practice latex is not the same as lettering enamel. Any practice you do with it is not going to give you the same "drag" on the brush as lettering enamel.The "feel" of the paint & the control you attain from practice is not going to be like the feel of lettering enamel. Were latex paints a good choice for lettering, all the paint companies would make them. Fact is they don't, though. On the other hand if your situation demands that you practice with latex I think ronan still manufactures a latex bulletin enamel.

Posted by CJ Allan (Member # 52) on :

I used to take the classified section of the LA Times and tack it to a wall sideways for practice paper. Make your letters the height of the colums width.....Works GREAT!!

i agree with the 1-Shot/Ronan, and Quills/Flats, as the way to go.
Use patterns on the bigger stuff....6" or more.

Posted by Linda Seymour (Member # 1904) on :

We use 'Rekab' brushes here for both enamel and acrylic. The only difference is the length of hair; it is longer for the enamel as You would generally be working upright with a mahl stick.I wouldn't be wasting your wifes paints as ceramic formular can be quite expensive.We use the 'Sydney morning Herald' for practice as its columns are the right width too.

Posted by Michael Boone (Member # 308) on :

Dont use paper for a practice surface.It acts like a sponge and drinks the paint right outa your brush.
Try some aluminum scraps or go to a junkyard and get some auto panels.
Or paint some boards.
You can wash em over and over again.
Jerry Mathel wrote a lesson in brush care a while back in Sign Builder..it was very informative.
Takle care of your brushes..believe me..Im an abuser and I have payed for it many times..lotsa oldie brushes no more available.

[ January 23, 2002: Message edited by: Michael Boone ]

Posted by PKing (Member # 337) on :

My wife(duckette)also uses the acrylic paints for her decrotive art work.
Althought they are water based like latex.
There is a definate differance.
Latex paints are emulsions and commonly used for larger areas needed to be covered.ie"houses"
Much like BULLENTIN and LETTERING paints of an oil base.
Each chemically different for its own usefulness.
I tend to use the perticular paints for the purpose it was designed for.
House paint,for houses
Craft paint,for crafts
Model paint,for models
Lettering paint,for lettering!
Are you starting to get the picture now?
Oh yeah.......
Oil paints,for painting pictures
Stains,for staining wood
Varnishes,for varnishing
etc.etc.etc.

hope this helps

[ January 24, 2002: Message edited by: PKing ]

Posted by Randy W. Robarge (Member # 2022) on :

Thanks for keeping the info coming.

PKing, you always make it sound so simple. Thanks.

Randy

Posted by Gilead (Member # 158) on :

Hello Randy
Everything posted above is true from it's own point of view. However if you're just trying to get your feet wet:
The longer the brush bristles the better. They will hold more paint so you wont have to stop mid stroke and pick up more paint.
Or you could just buy some of those one inch foam brushes from the craft store.
Whatever paint you use it will frustrate you as a beginer if it is all thick and sticky. So thin it to an ink like consistency with Floetrol for latex or a paint medium like Liquitex or Createx makes for your acrylics. Too much water and the paint just falls apart so you want to at least partially thin it with something else.
Other than that the real trick is just do it...a lot. Have fun

Posted by Preston McCall (Member # 351) on :

Amateurs walk up to me as I am painting a big splash and ask me what kind of paint I use. It is a sure sign that a disaster is about to happen on someone else's windows. I have learned to tell them,"I use ACRYLIC PAINT!" They always have a weird look on their face as they know somewhere they have seen this stuff for sale...and then generally wander off, scratching head with extended arm.

Water based paints are much harder to letter. They just do not have the "mop" of oil based. Wanna learn how to letter? Try a #8 quill with some 1shot on and old window glass. Tape some lines on the back and begin with the 2" letter "A". Do it ten times and go to "B". Do this every day for a month and then you will have a degree of confidence. It takes time and focus. Then try some 1 inch Helvetica u/l case, reversed and in a foreign language on an angled ladder set in juniper bushes with wind and teenie boppers inside mooning you and some old lady asking you how much to do her mail box. It does get progressively easier.

Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :

Hi Randy.....when I first started to handletter..I used india ink. The black was pretty thin....but the white was great. I made shocards for the furniture stores and restaurants. Great fun....

Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :

Hi Randy..

Have you been to the Mack Brush Website yet? You'll discover all sorts of info on different types of brushes and their use, along with info on brush care and a list of Distributors. It's all at http://www.mackbrush.com/

My advise is to invest in some 1-Shot lettering enamel, a #10 lettering quill and 1/2" flat. Practice on all sorts of substrates. Glass is excellant due to it's smoothness. Even if the paint dries, you can clean it off with a razor blade.

The key to success is practice. I learned to handletter years ago, but never took the time to learn to pinstripe. Just like you, I am out in the shop everyday experimenting with striping brushes and practicing. You can do this.

Posted by Randy W. Robarge (Member # 2022) on :

Thanks for the tips!

I found a local place that carries One Shot Lettering Enamel. They have the small cans so I can buy whatever I want without breaking the bank.

And thanks for the link, Steve, Mack had a lot of info there. From what I gather (correct me if I am wrong),
Quills for lettering,
Flats for "larger areas" (like filling in a logo or large letters), and
Fitches for "rough" surfaces?

Glass is a great idea, also! I just hope my wife doesn't mind the paint all over the windows

OH! I almost forgot. I was trying to find the previous posts about opening/using a can of paint without making a mess all over the place. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks,
Randy

Posted by Jeremy Vecoli (Member # 2278) on :

I have lettered a lot with latex, doing interior "environmental graphics" work for a prop & display studio. I use the Mack waterbase brushes and they behave exactly like a quill. They have some synthetic hair mixed in to compensate for the increased specific gravity of the waterbased paint. They are great for window splashes. I pallete out the latex on a non-absorbent pallete and use a tiny mist spray bottle with acrylic retarder to keep the paint moist on the pallete. Clean the brushes early & often!

Posted by John Lennig (Member # 2455) on :

Randy, a sinple question..... are you right or left handed?
Not that you can do much about it, but as a lefty, i can atest to the fact that it's "different" learning if you're left handed. Casual, and especially script, are the hardest to master, as script is "made" to be pulled left to right.
Under NO circumstances give in to the temptation to chop off your left pinkyfinger!!! you WILL learn to keep it tucked out of the way.
BONUS TIME: lettering windows in reverse is just like being right handed. Not that's a bad thing.

Good luck, respect your brushes and go with the flow.

John / Big Top

Posted by Randy W. Robarge (Member # 2022) on :

John, funny you should mention that.

I am a lefty! Been adjustin' to a right-handed world all of my life. But that's ok, I'm a better person for it

I saw those Mack brushes for waterbase paints. I also saw a Signature Series from Mike Lavalee(sp?). I'm finding alot of interesting information.

Thanks.

Posted by John Lennig (Member # 2455) on :

Randy, FIGHT THE RIGHT. That goes for politics too, eh.

Lavalee's brushes are bingo for lefthanded signwriters, as they are synthetic hair, can be used in waterbased or oil based(dont' mix'em up tho, separate set for oil, and water.)
The hairs are realatively short, and stiff. Left handed lettering seems (to me) to work better with a bit shorter haired brushes. .Those Lavalee brushes have done whole jobs for me with so good results, oneshot on painted cement block.

paint on!

John / Big Top

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