The Letterville BullBoard: trouble removing backing paper

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Posted by Suelynn Sedor (Member # 442) on :

I cut a whole bunch of unit numbers for a customer a few months ago. She called me today, and they are having alot of trouble peeling the decal off the backing paper.

I used white avery 2ml vinyl and a medium tack transfer tape. The transfer tape must not be aggressive enough to lift the vinyl off the backing.

Is there anything I can do to ease this problem?

Posted by Diane Crowther (Member # 120) on :

It could be that the cutter was set too deep and actually cut partway through the paper backing. This goes unnoticed until you try to peel the backing paper away and parts of it remain stuck to the letters. The only remedy is to use tweezers to grab the little bits off the vinyl before laying it down, or recut them and start anew.

Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :

It could also just be the age of the vinyl.

I usually recommend to my customers that they dont store pre-cut and taped graphics like that for very long at all because of that exact problem.

Eventually the vinyl adhesive breaks down the silicone coating on the paper. This is why manufacturers recommend storing materials no longer than a year.

It could also be that it was cut too deep..

Either way, the only remedies are either dinkin around with the lettering trying to save them, or just cut a new set.

Posted by Mark Fair Signs (Member # 289) on :

i agree with diane.
sounds like too much weight on the blade.
try laying the decals face down and pulling the backing, sometimes this helps facilitate removal of backing.

Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :

Hi, Suellyn,

You might try warming the things from the transfer-tape side with a heat gun, and burnishing with a squegee. I have a feeling that humidity has played a part in this problem, and heating may help. The others are probably also right about too much cutting force on the blade. Heating is not going to help on that.

Good luck.

Posted by Suelynn Sedor (Member # 442) on :

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

I got digging in their file, and found an extra decal I'd saved. It does help to peel the backing away from the tape. The vinyl just seems to be super-aggressive.

These were cut at the end of April.

I've found if I hold the decal down with a squeegy while peeling up the backing, I think they will be okay. Thanks for the help you guys!

Sue

Posted by Bill Cosharek (Member # 1274) on :

Sue,

I can't offer further advice for this problem than what's already been said. What's done is done.

But next time, you might try using vinyl which has the plastic backing instead. That's what I've used when customer plans on doing their own install. Plus, if they do it wet, then there's no paper backing to ruin. Then who do they blame?

Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :

As stated, knife depth is the most plausible reason...another thing I learned in our Plants Statistical Process Control when I worked some years ago for a major vinyl converter was a thing called "Silicone Skip".

We would infrequently get logs of vinyl (48" X 300') that would have random portions of uncoated backing paper....that is, sections where the silicone release didn't get applied. Thus, the vinyl would be stuck to the liner in areas from the git-go.

Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :

I have first hand experience in this problem.

Your #1 problem is the Avery brand. If you cut just even a tad too deep, you will get this problem 100% of the time.

Blade depth with Avery is so critical, unlike any other brand out there. Their backing paper is the pits, yet vinyl great. You just simply can't mess up the cuts with this stuff, not even slightly. I've had customers complain about some decals I sold them.

I have NEVER had this problem with other brands. I carry soley Avery for the quality of vinyl and the availability of 20" unperforated. If it wasn't for those two things, I'd switch in a red hot second.

Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :

Donna,

Your right, Avery vinyl is an excellent brand...the company I used to work for converted vinyl into graphics for many OEM industries as well as industrial applications.

They converted enough vinyl to reach the moon and back...literally! But most of it was die-cut which is, of course, different than cutting with a blade.

I haven't had much problem with their backing over anybody else's, and i think you're right in saying that knife depth is the critical factor.

Posted by Howard Keiper (Member # 1250) on :

At the risk of inciting a "discussion"...
Graphtec cutters, the 4100 series, takes a different approach to the pressure/depth thing. I've said on several occasions that for proper operation of a Graphtec, it is essential that the tip of the nosepiece (not the blade) touch the surface of the material being cut. It needs to do that to provide feedback to the circuitry which controls the pressure you set. The instant contact is made, the system knows exactly where the surface is and it knows exactly how far (you set this, the depth)and how much to push the blade, and how far to lift the blade to just clear the surface when moving. One usually can't hear the holder/blade hitting the surface as it cuts because it doesn't.
Knowing where the surface is makes it possible to cut halfway through the medium if you wanted to, like stencil board; or to cut thin films without scratching or scoring the backing material or cutting all the layers except the bottom one for instance, if you were cutting Hi-intensity or Diamond reflectives.
Another benefit is that the cutters are much more tolerant of uneven plattens so one doesn't get skips as the knife moves over it. The "shredded cut strip" syndrome all but goes away since a mangeled strip would be on the bottom, not the surface, and the only way a cut strip could get damaged in the 1st place would be an incorrectly adjusted blade depth.

Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :

I'll just add my little bit of advice to the thread.

Suelynn said it all in her original question. They are having probs pulling the decal off the backing. We all know you have to turn it over and pull the backing off the "decal".

I have also found that even doing it that way I have to sometimes re-squeegie the whole thing with the transfer paper facing down and backing paper up. It seems to make the "decal" adhere to the transfer paper better for some reason.

Posted by Bill Cosharek (Member # 1274) on :

Yes Dave,

And that usually occurs if the cutting pressure is too great. You're creasing the backing & when you turn it over, you're forcing it back where it would've been if you used less pressure.

So Lighten Up! (just kidding)

Or, it could be a dull blade.

(how do you add those smiley faces & stuff?)

Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :

True Dave, Suelynn did say it all in her initial post, however I added my info soley to let it be known that Avery is a huge culprit in this problem. I can overcut nearly any other brand and not have this problem at this magnitude. When she said Avery.. well..

At times if I've cut way too deep with Avery vinyl (it happens), every single letter is a mess and it's a tedious task removing the backing paper. Sometimes I have to trash the decal and start over, regardless of all the fancy techniques I've used to remove the backing paper. Only thing I haven't yet tried is standing on my head doing it.

BTW Dave, what are ya doing on the bb?!? You should be at the beach! (or are you with a laptop??)

To adds smiley faces, type : and ) together.

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