The Letterville BullBoard: When suppliers make the rules... what would you do?

This is topic When suppliers make the rules... what would you do? in forum Old Archives at The Letterville BullBoard.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
http://www.letterville.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/13/5232.html

Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :

Hi everyone,

I'd love your opinion on this scenario.

There's a supplier that's introducing some new reflective type of material for our police cars. This supplier negotiated with another sign company to do a free install. The supplier is also giving his materials free for the police car.

There is a 2nd car to be done as well. The police dept. is going to be paying materials AND installation for the 2nd one.

The supplier is now having problems with the freebie sign company. They break promises for showing up etc and it's proven to be an extremely unreliable choice.

The supplier approched me, asking me if I'd be interested in getting my foot in the door for this gig. He's asking if I'd honor the original agreement of doing a free install. I asked him what kind of timeframe were we talking about, and he quoted 2 hrs of time. I said if that was the case, no prob! The supplier told me to touch base with the police dept. for details of installation.

The police dept. informed me they were using someone else, but would keep my number on file 'in case.'

I got a call today from the police dept. Seems they now need my services ASAP. (surprise surprise) After some conversation, I learned that this project was a 5-6 hour install, not 2!

The supplier is stuck big time. He's promised free free free for the 1st car and now his free installer is history. He's requesting yet again I do the job, and in return, getting my face known around the police force.

This is a promotional project. These are 2 new cars that need decals, and the chances are I suppose fairly good that one day the fleet may go with the whole new look as they get new cars, but it's not certain. They have no idea if they'll like the new look or not. This could be a good gig if they do like the new look, so it is a gamble.

In the past, this supplier has used me to decal previous demo firetrucks to promote his products and has always paid me for install. I guess when he approached Mr. Free signshop, he shocked himself into finding out someone would actually do one for free.

Here's what I suggested. I do the first car for 3 hours free, and he can pay me if it's longer. The timeframe more than covers his initial 2 hr quote, yet if it turns into an all dayer, at least I'm somewhat compensated.

In hindsight, I'm wondering if I should have bit the bullet and oblidged the supplier. I just didn't want to be known as a freebie each time he chose to promote a product.

I've become fussy with where I spend my time. I compare a free job like that to being with my son. Gee, which would I choose??? Hmmm.....

Would you do the one car for free, and getting paid for install only for the 2nd, (no markup on materials, that's going from supplier to police dept) hoping there's more work down the road?

(Adrienne, this post didn't require Tim Horton's, but I'll take one anyway if you're buying. LOL)

Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on :

I would not consider doing "free" installs, whatever the promises of further work.

"Time is Money ... and we all need to earn a living!"

Give them a good price on the first one, based on multiple jobs and tell them that. If they don't wear it the whole situation is not worth it.

There seems to be a variation in instal times estimated. To sweeten the quote ... tell them that this is your top line ... if the first one takes less I will charge less for the rest.

Posted by AdrienneMorgan (Member # 1046) on :

Donna, I agree with Busie here......sounds like a carrot is being dangled in front of your nose....don't go for it....

I'll get ya a coffee, double cream, single sugar, and I'll have a small frozen Cappuccino, It's been hot this week!

Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :

I agree with Jon.

Its not your responsibility to pull the supplier's butt out of the fire.

What guarantee are they giving you for all of the future police vehicles?

IF everything is on the "up and up", I might give the supplier the original 2 hours, but after that I would charge them. I might even let them stay and watch so that they feel like they got their 2 hours worth. But after that, I would charge them like any other client. I would also require them to put everything in writing.

Posted by Ian Wilson (Member # 177) on :

I Agree with Jon No Pay No Work nothing in this life is free and if it is there is always a catch you only get what you pay for.

Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :

Do it for FREE! As long as you get about 10 yards of 24" reflective material so you can help PROMOTE THE SUPPLIERS PRODUCT!!

Posted by Santo (Member # 411) on :

That's 10 hours of work and getting paid for 2 hours. Try to work out something else. Free material is good, as long as you have the next couple of cars are yours to do at regular pricing.

Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :

Donna,
First issue is the supplier moving out of the area of their business....promoting signs to an end user. If I found my suppliers competing with me, I'd boycot that company and steer others to do likewise, and contact some of their suppliers. That seems to be expressing a lack of respect for who feeds them.
Second issue is giving away freebees. To a charitable organization with mutual agreement is different than offering to an organization that figures all these expenses into the budget prior to purchase. Just where do they suppose the left over money will go after this donation?
I do see the possibility of you getting your picture in the newspaper doing the install as part of the compensation for donating the two hours you agreed to. The extra hours get purchased either by this supplier or Cody. Can you hear that?
How do you feel being the third choice of this supplier? Do you think this is a friend? Someone trying to help you establish your business?
One more thought on this... If I'm anticipating a huge job, I might gamble with a freebee sample. For two or three vehicles I'd never consider giving away one third of the project.
Should there be a material failure, you'll be the one remembered and called to donate more time to correct it. I'd stick to the 3M.

Posted by Tasmus (Member # 445) on :

Yeah, I am afraid in their "innovative marketing of their product" they will have no qualms about running right over the top of you, if the opportunity presented itself.

The problem is that the promised potential work is obviously NOT UP to them.

Police administrations change.

I used to do every car the county got. Since the new sheriff came in though, I got ZIP...he doesn't like me, so there goes the work....never mind the fact that my design and quality is far superior to the new guy....

that all said, there are just too many stinking variables...I know you are talented, and probably busy elsewhere....don't sweat it.... the supplier got themselves into this mess...
*************************

BTW--who votes we make DONNA in BC the official MS Letterville? Is she a Cutie or what? (No offence Donna) You gotta love that smile!

Barry

Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :

No. Sounds like a waste of five hours. Would you have agreed to do it in the beginning, before the freebie sign guy got involved? If you knew it would take five hours? If it was a case of getting your foot in the door it might be different but the PD has said they use someone else, slam goes that door

And just why isn't the guy thats already doing the PD work doing the install? They are already getting the kit free. He sounds pretty well entrenched to me.
Looks like the supplier is in a big bind and has plenty to lose. You said it's a gamble, just how well do you do at the casino's???? If I were to base my decision on my luck I'd pass for sure

[ October 03, 2001: Message edited by: George Perkins ]

Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :

Your supplier may be giving away a free product but yet is not closing its door for the day as you will be.
His mistake was his having a Tom Horton with someone he could not depend on instead of going to you in the first place.
I'd say a contract to your liking is also in line for future promotions just to keep the records straight.

Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :

Duuuhhh!
1. The shop that normally deos the police cars smalls a rat and turns down the "freebie"
2. Supplier "conns" a second shop to do a free install, he takes a good look and says"ByeBye, not me!"
3. Supplier approches you and dangles an imaginary carrot, hoping that you will be dumb enuogh to do it. (Imaginary because there is 0 guarantee that in the future that the PD won't continue using their "favorite" sign shop!)

Seems to me that your supplier is a cheap slime ball who has got himself in a real predicament.
Since he was so nice, in ignoring you in the first place, charge him FULL time and materials!!!!NOTHING FREE for him!

Remember, you are in a business, and this is not a hobby!

Just my very humble opinion

Posted by Brian Snyder (Member # 41) on :

I'd ask for my regular hourly install rate for this one, and offer 1/2 off the installs on the next 2 scheduled jobs. PLUS, $x.xx worth of "store credit" at the supplier equal to the amount of your normal install rate.
Ask for more than you expect to get and "settle" for what you really want.

Posted by Tim Whitcher (Member # 685) on :

There is NOTHING that deflates the value of your work in the customer's eyes than doing it for free. "But, gee, how could it possibly cost that much? You lettered that patrol car for free!"

Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :

Donna..Having followed this thread for a day..I can only agree with most folks..Don't do it!

Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :

There's easier ways to be know around the police station.

Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :

The ethics of the supplier is what strikes me as important. I think I'd be shopping elsewhere, after I explained to them why.

Posted by timi NC (Member # 576) on :

Do a little bit extra & pretty soon they will expect it,....practical logic. Once done for free then again expected for free,....bad logic,...

Posted by Brad Farha (Member # 931) on :

Do free work on the promise of future work?

NeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNever NeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNever NeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNever NeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNever NeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNeverNever

(or less often than that.)

Posted by Brad Farha (Member # 931) on :

I would liken that to negotiating with terrorists.

Posted by AZBrad (Member # 1351) on :

I have found that these situations rarely if ever work to your advantage.

I laugh at the customer who says "hey if you give me a price break i will tell everyone where i got it"

A good customer or supplier will recomend you because of your quality work and customer service, not because you did a freebee.

UBB.classic™ 6.7.2