The Letterville BullBoard: Copyrighting your Designs?

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Posted by Stevo Chartrand (Member # 2094) on :

Hey Folks!

Lately I have been doing some eye candy design work at home at night for fun and practice. A mufflershop on the block wanted me to design them a decal for the race cars he sponsors. I did three different designs for him and mentioned that it could possibly end up replacing his existing logo.

Now for him to do this he would have to use my logo for flyers, newspaper adds, web site etc. Which means he would have to use outside resources. I have had customers in the past take my design that I have done for them to the printers to have it totally butchered. Seeing this kind of thing done to my work is upsetting and there really isnt a thing I could do about it.

Has anyone actually put a copyright on their work? A friend of mine mentioned to me today about maybe doing this. I dont mean to sound to possesive but that is my art! And my art is helping the companys profile which in turn is making them more money. Shouldnt I have a piece of it?

It sounds like there might a whole bunch of red tape and legal mumbo jumbo involved so I have been hesitant to do this kinda thing.

What exactly is the process to doing this?

Any thoughts, info, links would be appreciated.

I have a link here of the design itself. He picked the second one.

Thanx

http://www.geocities.com/stevo_c2001/index.html

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Stevo Chartrand
Commercial Signs
Edmonton, AB
stevo_c@powersurfr.com

Posted by Mike Clayton (Member # 723) on :

I think you are right on about claiming copyright to your designs as far as "your" intelectual property. If a customer wants to use the designs for advertising brochures or newspaper/yellow pages ads, sell them a license to use the artwork.

Hopefully Dan Antonelli will see this post, he would be the one to help you the most that I know of.

There is a thing called a "poor mans copyright". Basically you would put a copy of your original artwork, hand drawn or printed, in an envelope, and mail it to yourself. Don't open it, as it is postmarked the date you produced it, or a day or two later. If someone should ever "steal" your artwork and claim is as their own, you will have dated proof that will supposedly hold up in any court.

Thats the first things that come to mind, I'll add more tomorrow, good luck anyway!

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Mike Clayton
MC Graphics
Barnegat, NJ
http://mcgraphics.visualnoise.com/
mike@visualnoise.com
AOL IM: mcgrafix

"Youth and enthusiasm is no match for old age and treachery!"

Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :

Copyrighting is no big deal.. it's so easy a monkey can do it... no lawyers involved until you need to persue a claim.

All you gotta do is print off the forms from the US Library of Congress website, fill em out, submit them and artwork samples plus $20. http://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright/

Yer done.

If you want to maintain some control over the artwork, make him a deal.

Every service bureau he uses is going to charge him $50 or more to setup the artwork.. of course it wont be just like the original.

The deal is, you provide the service bureaus with digital artwork they can use, and you charge the customer say $35-$50 per service bureau.
He's gonna need signs, digital prints, decals, t-shirts, business cards, flyers, brochures, promotional products with his logo on 'em.. he's lookin at at least $400 in setup fees right there.

You can even lay that cost out right in front of him.. he can pay all those guys $50 each to have a botched up logo, or he can pay you $35 each for perfection and he doesnt have to worry about taking them camera ready art, digital files, etc.

Or he can outright purchase all rights to the artwork, including camera ready and digital files, for $1500... or whatever you charge for a logo.

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Mike Pipes
Digital Illusion Custom Graphics
Lake Havasu City, AZ
http://www.stickerpimp.com

Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :

When I first started in this business I used to work for an Artist that would charge two ways for artwork. One was a flat fee based on the design and the usage, then there is a smaller flat fee and a percentage every time it is reproduced.

In my opinion a Muffler shop is not going to pay royalties for a logo every time he reproduces it. A company like Nike would.

I would charge a flat fee, in that fee I would include the design worth, time to set it up and time to create multiple formats of that design. I would burn all the different formats on a CD and give him that with a nice color proof.

That way when he goes to the printer or T-shirt guy, they can find a file format on that CD that they can use.

I just can't be bothered with lawyers and legal mumbo jumbo when it comes to royalties.

Plus most local business can't afford to be nickled & dimed to death with royalties. I would rather get all my money up front and move on to the next job.

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Bob Rochon
Creative Signworks
Millbury, MA
bob@creativesignworks.com

"Some people's kids"

Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :

Hi Heads,

I like the way photographers do this.

They charge a useage fee for use of their photographs and the more the photo is used, the more money they get. The client never owns the photo, never buys the photo. The use of the photo could be sold over and over for use on school books to calandars.

So, if you wanted to put a neat photograph on a banner or a semi truck, you pay the photographer a useage fee. If your are using the photo on a fleet of semi trucks, then the photgrapher gets way more money for the useage fee.

Photographers have a whole organiztaion to back them up and sue people who violate the use of photography. Sign designers are sort of out in the open with their pants down on this issue.

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Draper The Signmaker
Bloomington Illinois USA

Get To A Letterhead
Meet This Summer! See
you there!
DUCK SOUP SPLATTER JAM
Sept. 14,15,16
Somewhere in Alabama
--------------------
309-828-7110
drapersigns@hotmail.com
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Posted by RonniesTintSigns (Member # 1669) on :

Mike,
Checked out the link you provided..whoa,a whole lot of copywright laws. When I design logos or graphic work I print my design on the invoice & I have a rubber stamp which I stamp the incoice, which reads:
This Was Designed By And
Is The Property Of:
Ronnie's Tint & Signs Inc.
Augusta,Georgia
And the customer signs the invoice.Unless the customer pays me the design time which I charge $100.00 a hour then it's their's bought & paid for.

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Ronnie Conrad
Augusta,Ga
706-793-3838
RonniesTintSigns@aol.com

Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :

Tell you one thing that eats me up. I do artwork for t-shirt designs for various people here. ONe of the screenprinters in town is a real harda**. Every time they take my finished art to him, he always scans it in, removes the lettering , and then adds his own lettering, which is always just crappy as he**. I'm at the point now where I ask the customer which printer they are using before I give it to them. IF they are taking it to him, I make them agree to not change the artwork at all. If they won't I'll just send em somewhere else for their art.

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John Deaton III
Deaton Design
109 N. Cumberland Ave.,Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-573-9101

john@deatondesigns.com
www.deatondesigns.com
"Don't tailgate, or I'll flick a booger on your windshield."-Larry Richmond, 11th grade english class.

Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :

John,

Don't your customers approve the t-shirt guy's artwork before he procedes? If so, convince your customers to reject the revised artwork.

The dude I deal with here uses Illustrator, same as I do, and he STILL has me approve the artwork even if he didnt make any changes to it. But if this guy does make any changes, I can trust him it's for the better.

Anyway, I tell customers who I prefer to deal with as far as items outside of my scope go. I just say something like "I use Joel's T's cause his work kicks serious butt, I highly recommend him. I cannot guarantee you will be happy with anyone else's work."

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Mike Pipes
Digital Illusion Custom Graphics
Lake Havasu City, AZ
http://www.stickerpimp.com

Posted by Mike Lavallee (Member # 320) on :

Oh Man this post couldn't have hit at a better time! I just got back from Sturgis SD. where I saw a complete knock off of one of my one of a kind custom Paintjobs! the only way this guy could have seen this piece was from my website where on every page there is a warning saying all works shown here are not to be copied in any way shape or form with out written permission from the artist. this guy completely stole the idea and sold it to a motorcycle dealer who in turn did the bike for the Iowa state Lottery commision. I am taking this matter to an attourney now. Some people would say that I should take this as a compliment ( and in a way i do ) BUT the guy who spent big dollars to have a one of a kind done doesn't feel complimented at all! I will protect myself better in the future and if your work means anything to you I'd reccomend that you do it also.
Original ideas are hard to come buy, and its too easy to just steal it rather than use your brain I guess.

I'll keep you posted on the results. mike

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Work like you don't need the money, Love like you've never been hurt, And Dance like no one's watching. :)
Mike Lavallee
Mike Lavallee's Pinstriping & Airbrush Art
Everett, WA

Posted by Stevo Chartrand (Member # 2094) on :

Hey guys. Thanx for your input and advice.
I found an interesting article about this topic check it out if you got a chance.

http://cbc.ca/news/indepth/copyright/

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Stevo Chartrand
Commercial Signs
Edmonton, AB
stevo_c@powersurfr.com

Posted by Mayo Pardo (Member # 138) on :

Everything you wanted to know about copyrights - and then some more
http://www.loc.gov/copyright/

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EmpY® is also known as Mayo Pardo. Known to wander Australia, currently in Elgin IL.
I can cut stuff for you on my router table.
847 931-4171

I also refill inkjet cartridges for people (someone's gotta do it) http://difsupply.com

Posted by ScooterX (Member # 2023) on :

for those of you who don't want to read through the 76 page "Simplified Laws of Copyright for Artists" by the USGPO, here's my synopsis:

Copyrights are meant to prevent unauthorized reproduction of original works. You AUTOMATICALLY own all rights to anything you create. (You don't need to mail it to yourself. That's only to prove the date of the thing.)

You can emphasize your ownership of the work by simply writing, printing, stamping, or typing
"(c) 2001 by Your Name Here ".

(note - the notice must include the copyright symbol, or the word "copyright", the year, and your name. the name can be your legal name, or a "pen name" if it is one you use regularly and can be assumed to be you.

I choose the word "emphasise" because your customer may not realize that what you just lettered is considered, by law, "an original piece of art".

Mike -- sorry to hear your style was ripped off, but the copyright laws do not help you. Some things can be protected by a copyright, and others must be trademarked. The original paintwork you did is automatically covered by copyright. the "idea" behind the art must be trademarked. you can't copyright the "idea" of a screaming eagle with flames (or whatever it was you painted)- you'd have to trademark it.

So, to get back to topic, the designer automatically owns the rights to their own original work. Original means "the original piece" and not "original idea". if a customer photocopies (reproduces) your work, its covered by copyright law. if a customer shows it to somebody else, and that person then recreates it ("give me a screaming eagle, like this one, with flames coming out its ass") then you're out of luck.

The last bit involves work for hire. If you are an employee, then your boss (the Company) owns the copyrights to whatever you do while on the job.

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:: Scooter Marriner ::
:: Coyote Signs ::
:: San Francisco ::
:: don't blame me... i'm just a beginner
::

Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :

Oh man I love the eagle with flames shooting out its ass reference.. hahaha.. reminds me of that episode of South Park where Cartman gets an alien anal probe and... well... those of you that have seen it know what Im talkin about.. the rest of you can only imagine.. hahaahaha..

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Mike Pipes
Digital Illusion Custom Graphics
Lake Havasu City, AZ
http://www.stickerpimp.com

Posted by david drane (Member # 507) on :

When I lodge artwork for approval I normally just sign my name followed by the © symbol along with the date as ScooterX says but I have always believed it was only a bluff anyway. It seems to have worked, either that or else my art aint worth stealin'.

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Drane Signs
Sunshine Coast
Nambour, Qld.
dranesig@dingoblue.net.au
Downunder
"Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life" - Confucius

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