The phrase 'God given talent' has always made me shudder. The only God given abilities I have are my basic bodily functions. Everything after that was hard fought for and earned. It's almost maddening when non-artistic people label me as 'naturally' talented. BS. There's only ONE thing that came automatically to be - the desire to create. But nobody ever says how wonderful it must be to have 'God given motivation'.
'god-given' I agree, is an overly used term of poorly chosen words. However, I do honestly believe we are all born with various skills and talents right out of the womb. Some of us choose to develop them, some do not.
I am not nor will I ever been an artist in my own eyes. I cant put pen to paper and with one smooth line, create what I see in my head. I've seen those who can. Probably the best example is a friend who's a sign painter. One late night at a diner he was emphasizing the 'no cheese' part to the waitress.. when he promptly snatched the pad and pen from her hands and proceeded to draw a mouse, wedge of cheese and a circle-slash thru them! Perfectly recognizable, no hash marks, no erasings, no start and stop. Just one quick sketch that looked like what he wanted it to look like. That, is a born-in talent that he has grown and developed like a muscle.
I didnt get that muscle.
People who are genuinely artistically talented tend to be so across the spectrum of arts. I chalk this up to why so many signmakers are deeply entrenched in music as well as the visual arts.
Two examples would be signpainter turned jazz guitarist Tal Farlow (deceased a few years ago) and Ronnie Wood of the Rolling Stones. I dont care for Ron's music per se, but his drawing of Eric Clapton on the cover of "Crossroads" was the best I've ever seen of him.
What I TRULY hate, with a great and mighty passion, are pretenders. Those weasels that crawl among the general population that proclaim themselves to be 'artistes' yet have no talent - born, learned or imagined.
True artists remind me of fighter pilots. Reason being, the old line that goes...
"Never ask a man if he's a fighter pilot. If he is, you'll know it. If he's not, dont embarrass him"
I hope this post doesnt piss anyone off, its not meant to. It was just a topic dear to my heart, one that has little in the way of grey area with me. In my graphic career I've dealt with a ton of wannabes, a few really-ares, and a few that through sheer determination became good at it.
------------------ Robb Lowe Hub City Graphics Spartanburg, SC
Signs
Screenprinting
Embroidery
Computer Systems & Consulting
Posted by Bill Dirkes (Member # 1000) on :
Joe, The desire to create is the first trait revealed about God. I believe creativity is a big part of the 'in His image'-ness all of us share. I also see creativity as an ongoing gift from God. I am not particularly creative, but when IT happens it always feels like it came to me from above. Don't mis-understand me; It also involves mental sweat. Creativity, the desire to create, however you put it is, to me, more of a gift from God than bodily functions, physical traits, etc. could ever be. I'm gonna DUCK&RUN now!
------------------ Bill Dirkes Bethel Hill Signs Butler, Ky. Goodnight Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are.
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
hey joe!
"God given talent"... overused? probably... used by a lot of people that want to diminish the skills that have years to develop but we shouldn't dimish the idea entirely.
all of my talents are truly a gift from God. what we do with those talents are our gift back to Him. people are born with talent. skills are developed through hard work and diligence. sometimes people confuse the difference between the two.
keep up the good work, joe. you are truly a credit to the north tonawanda school district. stop by a visit soon. the coffee is on....
have a great one!
------------------ Bruce Bowers DrCAS Signtech
"how great are His signs..." Daniel 4:3
i am a proud supporter of this website!
Posted by Kookaburra (Member # 254) on :
quote:In my graphic career I've dealt with a ton of wannabes, a few really-ares, and a few that through sheer determination became good at it.
I wonder which one I am *grin*
Anyway.. I THINK I've got talent.. but as for if it came from up above... no, I don't think so.. I've been drawing since I was able to get a crayon in my hand, and will keep on drawing until I get arthritis so bad I can't hold onto that crayon any more.. And I've just drawn and drawn and drawn, and gradually gotten better at it.. Hopefully one day I can be as good as some of you people That's what I'd like, anyway. So, god given? Nope.. I don't think so. And if it is, then I think God'll forgive me for doubting just this once
------------------ From Katie Wright, 16 year old professional signie wannabe from Aus.
"Life is a great big canvas, throw all the paint on it that you can"
Posted by Tim Barrow (Member # 576) on :
Joe,I think alot of us here are talented,....As for it being "GOD given" I dunno & really don't want to elaborate.I was however taught in my early teens that a certain proportion of the populace is predisposed & inherently blessed with the patience & perseverance to excel in certain aesthetic efforts.With some it becomes a compulsion,almost obsessive,in their early formative years thruout the rest of their life,these individuals persue the aesthetic relentlessly,regardless of personal gain & or harm.History books are full of these individuals.Many show a predisposition early on in their early puberty stages equal to that of masters,society calls these child prodigies,as they are the true examples.Most who use the terms you speak of are merely trying to compliment your efforts,no reason to shudder,... Oh yea, don't want to imply here that I don't believe in blessings,just didn't wanna start a holy war on the bbs.
[This message has been edited by timi NC (edited August 14, 2001).]
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
Joe, as I recall most every time hearing that comment, it was really saying "I don't have that skill and envy you."
------------------ The SignShop Mendocino, California "Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"
Posted by Santo (Member # 411) on :
Our talent, our lives, and our beings are gifts from God. Unfortunely, many people never take time to develope those gifts into anything meaninful. Those who develope those gifts into something more are truly giving thanks to Him.
The Bible does refer to God giving the congregations "gifts in men", meaning that every one has a given talent to be good at SOMETHING, in the above case some were teachers, some were preachers, some were listners, some were those people who did acts of kindness, AND SOME WERE CRAFTSMEN AND ARTISTS.
There are two possibilities:
If you believe in God, you are made in his image, you have gifts inherent. You still have to develop those gifts.
If you believe in no god, then you evolved from an ape and just "monkey" around with your abilities.
THIS IS NOT A SUNDAY SERMON, JUST NOTEING A BIBLICAL REASONING THAT APPLIES TO THIS POST.
If this post skews into a fight about religion, don't blame me, just have a good fight without me!
------------------ Draper The Signmaker Bloomington Illinois USA
Get To A Letterhead Meet This Summer! See you there! DUCK SOUP SPLATTER JAM Sept. 14,15,16 Somewhere in Alabama -------------------- 309-828-7110 drapersigns@hotmail.com Draper_Dave on mIRC chat
Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :
I have been able to draw since I was very young. I firmly believe that talent was God given. Sure, I worked at it and developed it, but it was there. I have been able to play any musical instrument I wanted to since I was young. Guitar, piano, trumpet,drums,singing, etc. I firmly believe that talent was God given. Again, I developed it, but it was there. I'm not a christian per se, but gotta give credit where credit is due. Don't be offended when someone tells you that talent is god given. You musta been special for him to give it to you. Think about that. And, Like Dave above, I hope this doesn't get into a fight about religion. If it does, I'll just watch.
------------------ John Deaton III Deaton Design 109 N. Cumberland Ave.,Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-573-9101
[This message has been edited by John Deaton III (edited August 14, 2001).]
Posted by bill riedel (Member # 607) on :
A comment from an old sign painter (73). Having had only six months of show card and fine lettering and been able to go on to paint pictures, carve signs and even statues along with many relief carvings and winning many awards. I firmly believe in the term God given talent. How about years ago when Edward R. Morrow interviewed the top commercial artist in the country and asked if he had any advice to the young artists as far as school or education. He replied that he had never gone to art school. How about that?
------------------ Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. Little Ferry, NJ billsr@riedelsignco.com
Posted by Pierre St.Marie (Member # 1462) on :
The ability to perceive and execute those perceptions is there on the day you're born. How, and IF you capitalize on it and develop it is up to you. It may be "God given", but that ability definitely is genetic.
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com 800 735-8026 We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
I don't think there is a God who decides who gets a musical or artistic skill. I very much believe in a personal God, but I don't think he has any predisposition to inbue us with artistic skills as a special blessing. Genetics probably plays just as an important role in what we have as much as own our personal desires do. I tend to marvel at all the skills I don't possess, like the ability to fix any mechanical problem or build something or even display kindness and understanding where most would find those virtues hard to come by. Edison may have been a genius, or maybe one of the most hard headed people to ever exist. He just wouldn't quit until he achieved what he wanted to do. Talent is an ambiguous word that really is used by people when they can't explain why some can do things they can't. Take it as a compliment. Reminds me of the definition I heard of animal instincts. "Instinct is the description we use for the actions of animals, when we really don't know how they know to do the things they do".
------------------ Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Since 1978 www.wrightsigns.outputto.com All change isn't progress, and all progress isn't forward.
Posted by PKing (Member # 337) on :
EXDOUS 31:1-6 states which families received the spirit of God in Wisdom and knowledge of ALL manner of artisian work.It also states the WHY it was given."In order to build his Tabrenacle" It is true that Cave men,and the Egyptians could draw,BUT....flat. Science now has traced the DNA of all humans to one set of parents!God forbid it be Adam and Eve. My question to everyone is:What was it within you,(weather young or old)that made you even want to draw in the first place,and why did you continue to develope and improve on it??? Now I realize that as Human Beings we are going to take all the credit for everything from making ourselfs "artist" to creating the hole in the ozone.Heck we didn't even make it to space until the 60s so we could find something that was there the ENTIRE time Any Psychologist will tell you that the EGO dictates that there is NO power greater than itself.
------------------ PKing is Pat King of King Sign Design in McCalla,Alabama The Professor of SIGNOLOGY
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
I remember sitting around the kitchen table a few years ago with some friends. Each one said they couldn't draw. So I got out some of my watercolor paints, and paper and we each drew the same banana placed in the middle of the table. It turned out each person could draw very well! Some took a long time....some were very quick and abstract. I think we tend to go in the direction in which things are easy. For me drawing is fairly easy. (I don't do enough of it anymore though) It is just like selling or any other talent. If it is easy for you......you will follow that path.
------------------ surf or MoJo on mirc Cheryl J Nordby Signs by Cheryl Seattle WA.....! signsbycheryl@hotmail.com
I believe that talent is the natural ability to pick up on something. But, you will only be good at it if you work on it. Drawing has always been easy for me but I get rusty if I don't keep it going. I go to a drawing workshop where some people slave away at it but they just don't seem to have the nack for it. I am sure they can excell at something I would have trouble with, like simple math, and yes, I do believe these "gifts" come from God. I believe we all reflect different manifestations of God. (well, when we are doin' something right, anyway)
------------------ Artworks Olympia WA
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Hey, Joe, whaddaya know? I know that the only good muscle I have is my creative one! And God did create that! Love- JILL
------------------ Jill Marie Welsh "jillbeans" since 1963 Jill's Custom Signs just 8 miles South of Butler, PA jillbean16002@netscape.net or jillbean160020@lycos.com
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
Oh boy, I didn't mean to start something by using the God-word. Believe me, this post is NOT meant to stir up religious debate. Can I substitute the word 'natural' for God please? "God given" just happens to be one of the phrases heard frequently to imply that the abilities are somehow automatically inherent. Like it took no effort on my part (our parts). That's my point.
I used to be flattered by it. On some level I will continue to be, but it's getting harder not to view it as a dismissive statement toward my effort in all this, or a cop-out justifying other people's unwillingness to make similar sacrifices to excell in some area of their life. "Oh, I could never do that, learn that, acomplish that, I don't have the 'natural' ability you have".
How refreshing it would be to hear someone say "What a lot of ability you've acquired through all this hard work". That would be a real validation.
I'm sure the pure basic stem of your talent is natural, what you have refined it into is a result of desire and hard work on your part.
But what your might be overlooking is the way is comes so natural to YOU. Most people out of the creative realm, couldn't possibly even wonder how you even come to some projects.
Fine example is me and my friend Mark, both of us have artisitc talents, but being mechanicly inclined comes so natural to me, and to him, he has a hard time figuring out how a light bulb screws in.
I on the other hand could take an engine apart and reassemble it without too much problem.
It may not run too good but it would be all together. The running good part would come after years of practice learning and hard work.
I do believe most of us have god given talent initially, what we do with it is up to us.
I have met many of superb artists and craftsmen, that are working in an office or bagging groceries. Those souls have chosen to do nothing with thier natural talent.
------------------ Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA bob@creativesignworks.com
"Some people's kids"
[This message has been edited by Bob Rochon (edited August 14, 2001).]
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
God-given... natural... whatever it is I think it's completely valid. It's just like it's been said before though, it depends on the individual whether or not they *do* anything or develop the talent into something even greater. "Non-creative" people have developed their natural talents in other aspects of their lives, instead of the artistic side like most of us have.
When I was back in St Louis this past winter I visited my grandmother. She told me a story about myself, when I was only four years old. She was babysitting me and my sister, both of us armed with crayons. My sister (age 6 at the time) was drawin' cutesy girlie stuff.. bunnies, flowers, etc.. I had a crayon in each hand, and I was writing my name.. in two different places.. at the same time, using both hands.
I was floored when she told me this.. *THAT* is a natural talent, I sure as heck didnt learn it from anyone or by practicing. Can I still do it? NOPE. I *can* write either left or right handed, although I prefer lefty cause it's more comfortable for me.
My other natural talents?.. Everything..... Seriously. There isnt a single thing I cant do, nor is there anything I cant excel at. I've truly never failed at anything.
I don't let the fact that I may have no experience with a certain field deter me from attempting to do it. Once I get into something I can *see* what it's gonna take to make it a success, with or without training.. in fact I work better when I can learn it on my own.. Maybe it's just my indifferent attitude regarding just about everything. I don't look at a project and think "Oh man, that's gonna be tough.".. I look at a project and think "Ahh, that aint so hard."
The difference between me and other people is I know I can do anything I want, and if anyone says "Man, you cant do that, there's no way." I'll do it just to spite them.
I've done it in the past.. I'm doing it right now... and I'll do it in the future.
------------------ Mike Pipes Digital Illusion Custom Graphics Lake Havasu City, AZ http://www.stickerpimp.com
Posted by Jackson Smart (Member # 187) on :
Perhaps you need to define "GOD"....?
------------------ Jackson Smart Jackson's Signs Port Angeles, WA ...."The Straits of Juan De Fuca in my front yard and Olympic National Park in my backyard...
"Living on Earth is expensive...but it does include a free trip around the Sun"
Posted by Dave Hodge (Member # 1415) on :
I believe the talent we have is a gift, and certainly my drawing ability is hereditary. Whether it was a gift from god in the first place I don't know but I would like to think so. I have been able to draw pretty well, for as long as I can remember and it just seemed to come naturally.Whilst I could draw, I was always and still am, hopeless in any form of music. When I went to grammar school (11yrs) I was friends with a Jewish boy of the same age who was a genius on the piano, and he had been playing since he could remember, so it must be a gift of some sort wherever it comes from. The sin would be to squander it, and not make use of it.
------------------ Goldenmahl Dave Hodge's Traditional Signs. Preston, England. 01772 743352 GOLDENMAHLDAVE@aol.com
Posted by Linda Silver Eagle (Member # 274) on :
Joe,
Ya shouldn't have made it look so "easy" to do...hehehe!
------------------ PEACE SIGNS Big on Murals and Tight on Camera Ready!
"With every breath, we have a choice." --Linda Silver Eagle Georgia, USA
Posted by LazyEdna (Member # 266) on :
I agree with Joe about comments from people about "talent".. it does negate all the study and work that went into our abilities. I often define talent as desire. Many people have natural abilities they don't desire to use. Whenever someone makes a comment to me about "wish I had your talent".. I reply.. "Well, if you had spent as many years as I have learning, studying, and practicing.. you WOULD HAVE it!" As for Bill's comment about some commercial artist who never went to art school... I'd have to say.. that's gotta be RARE. School shortens the learning curve. Sure you could figure out aerial perspective on your own after a few months of working from nature every day... or a teacher can teach you the principle in 10 minutes. Unfortunately.. there are too many "art teachers" out there that flat out are lousy teachers... if you get a good one... you have a gold mine. And to Dave, Davey davey davey... Man did NOT descend from the ape... the theory clearly hypothesizes that man and apes had a common ancestor long long ago (about 2 million years ago). As humans and chimpanzees share almost 99% of the SAME DNA.. there's a lot of evidence to support this hypothesis. As for PK Ducks statement about science finding original parents.. he's wrong ... there is a new book out by a guy who says he has traced back all mitochondrial DNA to 7 original mothers from 10,000 to 30,000 years ago. He has evidence to support his claim. But this DNA can only be traced thru the MOTHER... sorry guys... nature decrees it.. I just accept it... Hopefully, I cleared up some mis-statements of facts here. Oh yeah.. about the God thing... as yet.. I've found no evidence to support the existance of a supreme being, supernatural force, or "god" type thing... so I can't accept that which has no evidence to support it. Call me.. Faithless. LE
------------------ LazyEdna in RL known as Sara Straw from southern Utah 5 National Parks within 3 hours drive Red Rock Heaven
[This message has been edited by LazyEdna (edited August 16, 2001).]
Posted by Gail & Dave Beattie (Member # 572) on :
as with most everything in life, its all 5% inspiration & 95% perspiration
That's what I'd like, anyway. So, god given? Nope.. I don't think so. And if it is, then I think God'll forgive me for doubting just this once 