Hey Roger, I have a major question... I have to letter a tow truck and the owner wants it all done in reflective vinyl. The only brand I could find locally is 3M Scotchlite Series 580. Aside from being the worst stuff I've ever had to cut and weed, the Supplier warned me to do it dry only! Now this isn't normally a problem, except truck doors and hoods aren't flat anymore! Do you think I could use Rapid Tac without any durability concerns? Love you stuff and use it all the time, but with the cost of this material, new customer, brand new truck, etc. I really want this to go smoothly as possible. Thanks ps Thanks for the great looking shirt.
------------------ Tom Hartel Sunset Signs & Graphics Forest Hill,Md
Posted by Mark Fair Signs (Member # 289) on :
i would suggest dry application.
as long as your hingeing method is correct and the surface area of the decal is not large. rapid tac makes an excellent product, but it is not a cure-all for all applications.
[This message has been edited by Mark Fair Signs (edited July 26, 2001).]
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
This is why we made Rapid Tac II, maybe a small(test) area first to ease your concerns.
Find a distributor on my site. Roger
------------------ Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated Waikoloa, Hawaii
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Tom,
As for the reflective, have you tried Avery? My crew insist that when I buy reflective, that is what they "demand" I get. It seems to be a little thinner, cuts easier, and conforms better.
If you need a supplier, I have one in Richmond, VA. E-mail me at creativesigns@bbnp.com and I'll send you their name and phone number.
My two sons have become the "tow truck" gurus in our area since they both used to drive them for a living. We've done a lot of them in reflective, but believe me, that stuff is a bear to work with. We've used both 3-M and Avery, and I agree with Glenn that Avery is a little easier to work with. What ever you do, DON'T, (repeat DO NOT) try to use the cheaper engineer grade refelctive. It cuts terrible and is too brittle. If you use Avery, use their XR1000 premium grade.
At best, compound curves are a real bear. Avery premium is a 6.5 mil vinyl and it takes a lot of patience and careful work with a heat gun to make it conform to irregular surfaces.
Reflective on tow trucks really looks great and is a super safety factor when those things are out on the highway at night but applying reflective is a lot of work. Be sure you charge enough to cover your a**.
No matter what the manufacturers say, we've had the best luck applying reflective vinyl with Rapid-Tac II.
------------------ Jerry Mathel Jerry Mathel Signs Grants Pass, Oregon signs@grantspass.com
[This message has been edited by jmathel (edited July 27, 2001).]
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
Tom is there a chance that this stuff might have to be removed in the future? If so and even if it don't, I always lay down some regular vinyl first... it's soooo much easier to remove the reflective with an underlay. And I agree with the above.. do it dry! Neil
------------------ "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF
[This message has been edited by Neil D. Butler (edited July 27, 2001).]
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Neil, You havn't done it with Rapid Tac II have you ??
Thanks Jerry!
Roger
------------------ Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated Waikoloa, Hawaii
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
whatever you do "do it dry"
Don't listen to Jerry Mathel, after all he's only written "how to" articles for S.B.I. and Signcraft for 20 or so years.
And don't listen to Roger either as he is just pushing his products, trying to make it easier for you and you really don't need the easy way out, do ya?
I like the hinge method myself even though it cannot be positioned just in case you miss the mark and put it on at an angle. But what the heck, thats why they call it "experience"
You'll have plenty of time to make money down the road after you have learned from all your mistakes by doing it over and over again!
------------------ HotLines Joey Madden,47 years in the Classic Art of Pinstriping Grants Pass, Oregon Learn something...... http://members.tripod.com/Inflite
Posted by Jerry Mathel (Member # 526) on :
Thanks Joey, I needed that. I know there have been a lot of wet vs. dry threads here on the Bullboard, but there are some major problems that are unique to reflective vinyl, that should be explained. Most importantly, it has an extremely aggressive adhesive and even the slightest contact with the substrate causes it to bond like stink on s**t. If you try to lift it back up, it inevitably breaks and tears due to its brittle nature.
If you are doing graphics on tow trucks you invariably end up dealing with hinges, latches and door jambs on the equipment bodies, not to mention the compound curves on the new truck cabs. No matter how careful you are, there are going to be times when it is necessary to reposition an errant corner of your vinyl. If you were using regular vinyl, it wouldn't be much of a problem. You could just lift it up with the point of an X-Acto, and lay it back down with some heat, but you simply can't do that with dry applied reflective. Even removing air bubbles can be a major chore.
Wet application with Rapid-Tac II gives you the luxury of being able to do at least some repositioning, and that's really important if you are working around a hinge or in the corner of a door jamb.
As far as the job lasting, you will find that vinyl (all types) actually bonds tighter when applied with Rapid-Tac. The chemical softens the film which encapsulates the adhesive and allows a thorough coating of the adhesive between the vinyl and the substrate, hence, a stronger, longer lasting bond.
I'll get off my soapbox now and let someone else have their say.
------------------ Jerry Mathel Jerry Mathel Signs Grants Pass, Oregon signs@grantspass.com
Posted by Ian Wilson (Member # 177) on :
Hey guys and girls reflective vinyl is available from 3m and avery in a removable escpecially for vehicle like police cars and such that are changed every couple of years and is great to work with as it does not tear easy and is real easy to rmove we candy stripe our electricians vans for when they are working on traffic lights in traffic don't need to apply it wet
------------------ Ian Wilson Signmaker Toowoomba City Council Cnr Anzac Ave & Stephen st Toowoomba Queensland Australia may all your toubles be little ones The man that never make a mistake never makes anything
Posted by Tom Hartel (Member # 1790) on :
Thanks to all who replied. Took some from all of you. But in the end I used Rapid Tac II. Roger... GREAT STUFF!!!!! Had to do the job outside in the hot sun. Owner was kind enough to have the truck washed before I got there. Wiped down the areas I need to with prep and started to lay it out. Truck is one of the International 4300's. Kinda reminds me of a Lincoln from the front and inside too. This thing has more toys than a two year old. Anyway, Cab is white and rollback bed is black. Started applying, using Tac II and it went on like candy! Owner liked it so much that he wants a price to redo the other 5 trucks to match. After the first two pieces were on, the knot in my stomach went away. The best part of the whole day was it only took me 5 hrs to complete, because I had to do it outside on his parking lot, which is next to a rather large marina. Hot day = lots of boaters at the lot buying new boats. They were having a big sale going on over there. I had at the least 30 people stop me to talk about there boats. Handed out loads of business cards, several wanted me to go over right then and price them up! Great day to be in the sign business. Truck owner was very understanding about everything, even bought me lunch! Needless to say, he had a smile from ear to ear from all the comments about how great it look. Thanks again for all the help and answered questions, And Roger thanks for making a great product!
------------------ Tom Hartel Sunset Signs & Graphics Forest Hill,Md
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
My pleasure Tom, I especially like it when someone "beleives in me".
I have a great reputation for telling it the way it is, but not everyone knows me,some tend to think I would say anything to sell any old product. I'm happy it went so well for you, and hope you get a big bunch a those boat and truck jobs !!
Roger
------------------ Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated Waikoloa, Hawaii
