The Letterville BullBoard: How would you do this?

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Posted by Bruce Evans (Member # 44) on :

This one might be a bit out of our league. Customer wants an 11'x11' MDO sign mounted on the top of a building near the edge. My guess would be to build an 11x11 frame from 2x4's and assemble the 11x11 from cut MDO pieces. All I can think of is to mount about three long posts to the ground, lying down on the roof. Then mount the sign to the posts with some diagonal support posts? I don't like the idea of drilling into a roof but I don't see anyway around it.

What would you charge for something like this? Oh and I forgot, there's another sign going right next to it that's roughly 8'x10'.

Thanks in advance.

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Bruce Evans
Chromark Design-A-Sign
Covina , CA
bruce@chromark.net

Posted by Pierre St.Marie (Member # 1462) on :

Bruce, if you're going to have to drill anyway, use guy wires and turnbuckles.

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St.Marie Graphics
& Makin' Tracks Sound Studio
Kalispell, Montana
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800 735-8026
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Posted by David Fisher (Member # 107) on :

If its a steel roof, use the existing screw holes with new roof screws and a little silicone for the guy wire anchors.
Or you can measure the pitch of the roof with a spirit level and tape measure using whatever increments you're most comfortable with ie: 1" fall over 3' etc, then make an out of square L shaped bracket from angle iron or your preferred material, which when screwed to the roof will give you a plumb sign and plenty of meat in the structure to anchor your guy wires etc to.
If you dont have the facility to cut and weld, any steel shop will make you something like this for little expense.
If you design it with longditudinal battens between the L brackets you may be able to forego the guy wires.
David

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David Fisher
D.A. & P.M. Fisher Services
Brisbane Australia
da_pmf@yahoo.com

Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :

Do you have any idea what the wind load on that is? Do you realize that the liability you're exposing yourself to far exceeds the value of the sign?

You'll probably need a welded steel frame with lots of diagonal bracing that ties into structural members of the building.

Safest way to do this is to first have the customer hire a structural engineer. Most any municipality will require the engineered drawings for a permit anyway. Once you have the approved means of doing the job, then you can bid on it.

I sure wouldn't risk loosing the farm.

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The SignShop
Mendocino, California
"Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"

Posted by PKing (Member # 337) on :

I agree with Rick.Some jobs COST more they are worth.If you are very intent on this.Structual Engineer,all permits,and inspectors need to be included.Wost comes to worst OVER BUILD!the frame to fit any substrate into.Why 11'x11'when 8 plus 4equals
12??? you gonna charge for having to cut off the extra foot"Keep it Standard and Keep it Safe"By the way those are called GUIDE WIRES!! used for stability.
Not"guy" wire
hope this helps

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PKing is
Pat King of
King Sign Design in
McCalla,Alabama
The Professor of
SIGNOLOGY

Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :

Since you are in Covina...your best bet is to check with the Builing Dept. as to what they require! It will save you a lot of greif later!

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Si Allen #562
La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
ICQ # 330407
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"

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Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :

Hi Heads,

When I worked at the big sign shop, we did this stuff all the time. But we had a crane, welders, steel cutters, evertything!

If this was their job (my mentor's job), they would have ordered 2" square steel tubing, made me cut all the pieces and weld up a frame, clean it and pirme/paint it.

Next we would bolt MDO or really thick aluminum over the frame.

Then angle iron back supports would be cut, drilled and ready to bolt in as soon as the sign was craned into position.

On the roof, steel "T" plates would be bolted down to the roof with very long lag screws and tar would be placed over the top of the plate. These serve to secure the angle iron braces to the roof.

Everything is thought out ten times over, every "i" is dotted, every "t" is crossed. People get killed when a sign blows off a roof into a parking lot.

Good luck!

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Draper The Signmaker
Bloomington Illinois USA

Get To A Letterhead
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you there!
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Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :

I would grab a pencil and write down the number of a local shop that does these jobs in thier sleep, then hand it to the customer.

That's how I would do this.

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Bob Rochon
Creative Signworks
Millbury, MA
bob@creativesignworks.com

"Some people's kids"

Posted by David Fisher (Member # 107) on :

Pat,
I hate to be pedantic but I'm gunna anyway...

*** GUY ***
Guy (?) , n. [Sp.
-guia guide, a guy or small rope used on board of ships
to keep weighty things in their places; of Teutonic origin, and
the same word as . -guide . See Guide , and cf.
Gye .] A rope, chain, or rod attached to
anything to steady it; as: a rope to steady or guide an object
which is being hoisted or lowered; a rope which holds in place
the end of a boom, spar, or yard in a ship; a chain or wire rope
connecting a suspension bridge with the land on either side to
prevent lateral swaying; a rod or rope attached to the top of a
structure, as of a derrick, and extending obliquely to the
ground, where it is fastened.

*** GUY ***
Guy , v. t. [ imp. & p.
p. Guyed (?) ; p. pr. & vb. n.
Guying .] To steady or guide with a
guy.

Taken from http://www.concordance.com/dictionary.htm
It notes "the same word as . -guide"
Personally I've never heard them called guide wires but perhaps thats a locality thing.

David

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David Fisher
D.A. & P.M. Fisher Services
Brisbane Australia
da_pmf@yahoo.com

[This message has been edited by David Fisher (edited July 02, 2001).]

Posted by Dennis Veenema (Member # 833) on :

Thanks David; we call them "guy" wires too.

Bruce you don't say how high the building is. One storey? Two? Three?
But really though if you don't do this kind of work you might be be better off passing on it, or sub the structure part out.

We do this kind of work all the time, but don't ask us to put a digital print on a truck...it's just not our type of work.

Something else...even if it's a one storey building there isn't a municipal engineer that I can think of that would give a permit for this with a 2x4 frame.

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Dennis Veenema
The Sign Shop
Dresden, Ont.
&
GigaBytes Plus

"Don't worry, it only seems kinky the first time."

Posted by Bruce Evans (Member # 44) on :

Thanks for all the replies. I think were gonna pass on the job. It doesn't sound fun and too much risk is involved. Anyone know of a company in the Southern California area that might be interested in it. I'd gladly point them directly to you.

The job is for a rehabilitation center and the roof is approximately 32' high.

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Bruce Evans
Chromark Design-A-Sign
Covina , CA
bruce@chromark.net

Posted by Bill Biggs (Member # 18) on :

Good Plan

I never get above 12 ft without a lift!
Bill
Life is too short to risk it on a sign!

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Bill & Barbara Biggs
Art's Sign Service, Inc.
Clute, Texas, USA
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