The Letterville BullBoard: Help Me with this Riddle? Danger! Loaded questions

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Posted by jack wills (Member # 521) on :

O.K.
In your best write, please help me to
understand the "NEW" tax ruling.
As a former lefty turned righty about to go
now to secular humanist-buddhist all the
way, unless some of yooz can unwind this on
going policy of deceit before us and save
me blooody soul.
What I would like to hear is simply some
well thought out opinions concerning the
"TAX CUT" and how it will effect the sign
game or our ability to proffer from it or
will we be led down another drain.
Please, no comments about slimeballs etal,
and don't worry about making a fool of your
self as I am doing at this moment by
admitting (true) that I am clueless at
trying to understand the benifits of the
"TAX CUT" and what difference it will make
in 3 1/2 years from now.
( Glenn, Keep it short if you can,ha ha )
Give it a shot in your own words.
Thas'it.....................CrazyJack

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Jack Wills
Studio Design Works
6255 Brookside Circle
Rocklin, CA 95677
writer@quiknet.com

Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :

Its a "re-structureing" of different "brackets", as well as some changes in basic "defered areas;

Such as= number of dollars for dependent deduction, number of dollars or % for deductions for education,across the board, retroactive % return of tax dollars(which would effect most wage earners by aprox. 300.00, some as much as 600.00)

This is what I can grasp, there is probably more, do some homework !!

Roger

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Roger Bailey
Rapid Tac Incorporated
Waikoloa, Hawaii

Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :

By the time they get done with it (adding amendments) and a lot of new little taxes... it won't mean a thing to the average person!

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Si Allen #562
La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
ICQ # 330407
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"

Brushasaurus on Chat

Gladly supporting this BB !

Posted by Michael Boone (Member # 308) on :

Who's gonna pay all the postage?

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Michael Boone
Sign Painter
5828 Buerman Rd.Sodus,NY 14551
Ontime @localnet.com

Posted by Mikes Mischeif (Member # 1744) on :

Jack, this is the question the whole nation is asking. As a tax specialist said on the evening news last week "Thank you GW Bush, Business is booming".

We all get the fact that the gov. is taking in more money than it needs, but how the heck did they come up with this wacky hit or miss refund system.

I don't think we will ever get an across the board tax cut that everyone could easily understand. It seems that these tax cuts are made to baffle and bewilder us. It makes for great sound bites and publicity, but really has no substance...This coming from a righty also.

Alan Greenspan keeps popping up and lowering the "prime" in hopes of getting the "econmy" going and the stock market back. But this has no effect on mortgages or car loans or business loans, stuff the majority of us would benefit from. What it does do is lower the rate BANKS use to trade money between them.

I'm with you Jack.
My head hurts now, so I will stop here.

------------------
Mike Duncan
Lettercraft Signs
Alexandria VA

From here on down, its all up hill.

Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :

Heh heh heh, Jack!

Well, the shortest answer I can give is "Its my money." The more of it I get to keep, the more I benefit.

Now, does anyone want a detailed answer? Think carefully before you say yes.

------------------
Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.
http://members.tripod.com/taylor_graphics
walldog@nc.rr.com

Posted by LazyEdna (Member # 266) on :

It's very simple... If you're rich and don't need the money, you get a whole lot back. If you're poor and NEED the money, you get nothing back. If you're middle income, you get a drop in the bucket back.. feel GOOD! whoopee do.
It's a scam conceived to make a few people happy and a lot of people confused. Looks like it worked!
LE

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LazyEdna
in RL known as Sara Straw
from southern Utah
5 National Parks within 3 hours drive
Red Rock Heaven

Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :

quote:
If you're rich and don't need the money....

Somebody else is going to determine how much money you need. Is that what any of us really want?

------------------
Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.
http://members.tripod.com/taylor_graphics
walldog@nc.rr.com

Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :

Isn't this a site to see, Jack and Roger on the same post.

Letterville : Family oriented website, aint life grand!

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HotLines Joey Madden,47 years in the Classic Art of Pinstriping
Grants Pass, Oregon
Learn something......
http://members.tripod.com/Inflite

Posted by CJ Allan (Member # 52) on :

..........POST DELETED..........------------------
CJ Allan
CJs Engraving & Designing
Hazel, Ky.
270-492-6209
cjallan@cjs-engraving.com
www.cjs-engraving.com

No Longer a Proud "Professional Guest" of this site!!

[This message has been edited by CJ Allan (edited June 11, 2001).]

Posted by jack wills (Member # 521) on :

O.K. Glenn,
Lets hear your rendition of where some of us
might be benifiting in 3.5 yrs.
No sound bites from the news please, we all
have calculators.
Thas'it...................Jack

------------------
Jack Wills
Studio Design Works
6255 Brookside Circle
Rocklin, CA 95677
writer@quiknet.com

Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :

OK. How deep do you want me to take this. I could make this "one hellava post" (pardon my French). heh heh heh

------------------
Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.
http://members.tripod.com/taylor_graphics
walldog@nc.rr.com

Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :

Well, there isn't much that is going to happen the first 3.5 years other than some very basic stuff such as expanded child credit and increased limits on IRA's and such. Also, much of tax cut is back-loaded and won't fully phase in until 2011 (thank you cowardly Senators).

However, here are some figures I've been able to put together in the past hour.

******

Single person earning $20k per year.

Total Income: $20,000
Personal Exemption: $2900
Standard Deductions: $4550

Under Current Law.....
Taxable Income: $12,550
Total Taxes: $1883

In 2001 under Phase One of Tax Cut.....
Taxable Income: $12,550
Total Taxes: $1583
Savings: $300

In 2011 under Final Phase of Tax Cut.....
Taxable Income: $12,550
Total Taxes: $1553
Savings: $330

Note: Percentage Cut in Taxes $300 Is To Your Total Tax: 15.94%
Fully phased: Percentage Cut in Taxes $350 Is you Your Total Tax: 18.59%

Percentage Increase $300 Is To Your Income: 1.50%
Fully phased: Percentage Cut in Taxes $350 Is to your income: 1.75%

******

Single person earning $40k per year.

Total Income: $40,000
Personal Exemption: $2900
Standard Deductions: $4550

Under Current Law.....
Taxable Income: $32,550
Total Taxes: $5598

In 2001 under Phase One of Tax Cut.....
Taxable Income: $32,550
Total Taxes: $5243
Savings: $355

In 2011 under Final Phase of Tax Cut.....
Taxable Income: $32,550
Total Taxes: $5083
Savings: $515

Note: Percentage Cut in Taxes $355 Is To Your Total Tax: 6.34%
Fully phased: Percentage Cut in Taxes $515 Is you Your Total Tax: 9.20%

Percentage Increase $355 Is To Your Income: 0.89%
Fully phased: Percentage Cut in Taxes $515 Is to your income: 1.29%

******

Single person earning $80k per year.

Total Income: $80,000
Personal Exemption: $2900
Standard Deductions: $4550

Under Current Law.....
Taxable Income: $72,550
Total Taxes: $17628

In 2001 under Phase One of Tax Cut.....
Taxable Income: $72,550
Total Taxes: $16253
Savings: $1375

In 2011 under Final Phase of Tax Cut.....
Taxable Income: $72,550
Total Taxes: $15343
Savings: $2258

Note: Percentage Cut in Taxes $1,375 Is To Your Total Tax: 7.80%
Fully phased: Percentage Cut in Taxes $2,285 Is you Your Total Tax: 12.96%

Percentage Increase $1,375 Is To Your Income: 1.72%
Fully phased: Percentage Cut in Taxes $2,285 Is to your income: 2.86%

******
******

Couple with 2 children under 17 years of age filing a Joint Return earning $30k per year.

Total Income: $30,000
Personal Exemption: $11600
Standard Deductions: $7600

Under Current Law.....
Taxable Income: $10,800
Child Tax Credit: $1000
Total Taxes: $620

In 2001 under Phase One of Tax Cut.....
Taxable Income: $10,800
Child Tax Credit: $1200
Total Taxes: $0
Savings: $620

In 2011 under Final Phase of Tax Cut.....
Taxable Income: $9300
Child Tax Credit: $2000
Total Taxes: $0
Savings: $620

Note: Percentage Cut in Taxes $620 Is To Your Total Tax: 100.00%
Fully phased: Percentage Cut in Taxes $620 Is you Your Total Tax: 100.00%

Percentage Increase $620 Is To Your Income: 2.07%
Fully phased: Percentage Cut in Taxes $620 Is to your income: 2.07%

******

Couple with 2 children under 17 years of age filing a Joint Return earning $50k per year.

Total Income: $50,000
Personal Exemption: $11,600
Standard Deductions: $7600

Under Current Law.....
Taxable Income: $30,800
Child Tax Credit: $1000
Total Taxes: $3620

In 2001 under Phase One of Tax Cut.....
Taxable Income: $30,800
Child Tax Credit: $1200
Total Taxes: $2820
Savings: $800

In 2011 under Final Phase of Tax Cut.....
Taxable Income: $29,300
Child Tax Credit: $2000
Total Taxes: $1795
Savings: $1825

Note: Percentage Cut in Taxes $800 Is To Your Total Tax: 22.10%
Fully phased: Percentage Cut in Taxes $1,825 Is you Your Total Tax: 50.41%

Percentage Increase $800 Is To Your Income: 1.60%
Fully phased: Percentage Cut in Taxes $1,825 Is to your income: 3.65%

******

Couple with 2 children under 17 years of age filing a Joint Return earning $80k per year.

Total Income: $80,000
Personal Exemption: $11,600
Standard Deductions: $7600

Under Current Law.....
Taxable Income: $60,800
Child Tax Credit: $1000
Total Taxes: $10,148

In 2001 under Phase One of Tax Cut.....
Taxable Income: $60,800
Child Tax Credit: $1200
Total Taxes: $9192
Savings: $956

In 2011 under Final Phase of Tax Cut.....
Taxable Income: $59,300
Child Tax Credit: $2000
Total Taxes: $6815
Savings: $3333

Note: Percentage Cut in Taxes $956 Is To Your Total Tax: 9.42%
Fully phased: Percentage Cut in Taxes $3,333 Is you Your Total Tax: 32.84%

Percentage Increase $956 Is To Your Income: 1.20%
Fully phased: Percentage Cut in Taxes $3,333 Is to your income: 4.17%

*****************************

Anyhow, thats the best I could do in such short notice. Anyone care to check behind me and make sure my figures are right?

------------------
Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.
http://members.tripod.com/taylor_graphics
walldog@nc.rr.com

[This message has been edited by Glenn Taylor (edited June 11, 2001).]

Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :

Here's another thought.....

A bunch of people poo-poo'd the $300 tax "rebate". But, suppose that your "tax cut" this year is only $300. What is that worth 25 years from now?

Suppose you took your tax cut of $300 a year and put it into a slow mutual fund every year for the next 25 years at 6% interest. What do you suppose that tax cut would be worth to you?

Would you poo-poo $34,649.70?

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Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.
http://members.tripod.com/taylor_graphics
walldog@nc.rr.com

Posted by dave simpson (Member # 1627) on :

http://www.voluntarytaxes.com/default.html

whats the truth worth??

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Posted by Larry Elliott (Member # 263) on :

Right on Glenn, it depends on what YOU, I, WE do with whatever that is sent back this year and whatever deductions there are over the next years. If everyone invested it that would make quite an impact on the economy.

Some will run to WalMart and spend it on some junk 'Made in China' while others will invest it in their future retirement accounts.

I, personally will take whatever little I get back and put it towards my retirement. We all are aware of the limited number of production hours we have in a day and so we also should be aware of the limited number of years we will be able to work.

Taxes will continue to rise, get a break here and pay it back there. Tennessee is in the midst of a tax restructure and you can bet if I do get a little back from the Feds the State will end up with a big portion of it in new taxes. I'll be glad to get back what I can, no matter how small.

------------------
Larry

Elliott Design
McLemoresville, Tn.

If you can't find the time to do it right,
where gonna find the time to do it over?

Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :

Thanks Larry. Its nice to know somebody out there gets it.

------------------
Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.
http://members.tripod.com/taylor_graphics
walldog@nc.rr.com

Posted by jack wills (Member # 521) on :

Right On to Glenn & Larry,
I'll be retiring in 3 1/2 yrs and just
wondered what the thoughts of like minded
folks might be. About 23 yrs ago I had a
annuity set up as part of a inheiritance
and planned to put that to use at age 65.
Well the 11,000.00 from back then has gained
very well and I just hate to see a thief at
my door at tax time. The interest on that
piddly sum will do me well just from the
interest payments and some left to roll
back into that money market.
Right now is a real struggle to get along
but I'm smilin'come the rockin chair days.
Along with royalties, Soc.Security and some
pensions from 3 jobs back when, I'll be in
hog heaven.
Thanks again for the input.
Thas'it.............not totally,CrazyJack
P.S.
If I wait 3 more yrs.,My accountany says
the sum could almost double.

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Jack Wills
Studio Design Works
6255 Brookside Circle
Rocklin, CA 95677
writer@quiknet.com

Posted by dave simpson (Member # 1627) on :

oh well

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Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :

Just be careful, Jack. Somebody might think you don't "need" that much money even though you worked hard and earned it. It's not fair that you handled your money in a smart and intelligent manner.

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Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.
http://members.tripod.com/taylor_graphics
walldog@nc.rr.com

(dang typos)

[This message has been edited by Glenn Taylor (edited June 12, 2001).]

Posted by Mark Jordan (Member # 291) on :

Warning:

The average money fund now yields 3.76%, according to iMoneyNet, which tracks the funds.
If you own bank CDs or money market mutual funds, you could be losing money, after inflation, for the first time in 7 years.
The bellwether 3-month Treasury bill yield fell to 3.50% at the Treasury's weekly auction Monday - it's lowest level since March 1994.
The Conference Board, a business group based in New York, estimates that inflation will run at 3.7% in 2001 and 3.8% in 2002. If the Board's estimate proves correct, many savings accounts could lose money after inflation.
If you keep your money in passbook savings accounts, you're already far behind inflation. Those accounts return about 1.5%.
Inflation has been running at 3.3% the past 12 months and 3.1% in 2001. But recent increases in gasoline prices won't start to show up in the government's inflation numbers until this month, experts say.

USA Today, June 12, 2001

Summary: Do your OWN homework. Investor beware. No poo-poo.

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Mark Jordan
Houston, Texas
msign205@aol.com

Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :

Mark's info is correct. That is why we have our money in a different mutual fund set up with Edward/Jones. As of last month, we were earning an average of about 7.25%.

********

By the way, that is also why drops in prime rates are not always good. When it drops, so do many passbook and CD rates. The trick is balance between the interest rate and inflation as Greenspan has been able to do until last year. It is also why it is very important to have a diverse portfolio ranging from CDs to MF's to Bonds.

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Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.
http://members.tripod.com/taylor_graphics
walldog@nc.rr.com

[This message has been edited by Glenn Taylor (edited June 12, 2001).]

Posted by Jeff Bailey (Member # 1975) on :

LE,
I'm very sorry that you feel the way you do. But WHO in the world are you to decide who NEEDS or better yet, deserves money that they earned. I agree with allot of your values ( I too think the war on drugs is currently failing miseraby, and that we need to think outside the box to solve it) but I disagree 100% on your financial opinion. I am distrubed that you and many other people in this country feel that if I work smart and hard, and make sound investments, that I should carry a higher percentage of the tax burden, and hence carry the load for those who either don't care, don't choose, or don't know how to build their income beyond poverty, or middle class. I think most people here would agree that some long overdue tax relief is in order. The point you seem to miss is that WE ALL deserve it. Glenn summed it up very well in his posts with the figures he posted, showing how we all benifit prety evenly. The problem is that the political left likes to point out dollar figures and proclaim the rich as the only true benifactors. While it is true that someone that earns 40k per year will see a greater dollar savings (even if the percentages are identical) than someone who earns only 20k per year, but you conviently leave out the FACT that the person that earns 40k per year pays more than double the taxes than the person making 20k. This is simple percentages. The true fair tax system would be a flat tax percentage, but I don't see that happening too soon.

My concern though is that the left, with it's beleifs that the government is obligated to provide a safety net for people that do not choose or are not able to prosper on their own, will debate, and over complicate these cuts in order to preserve this way of thinking.

I'm not trying to pick a fight LE, but I felt compelled to give my opinion on the matter to clear up the thought that this tax cut is only for the rich. It is not. It will help us all.

(scenario; If we all got to save 10% of our current income, would you be mad because someone who made 100,000k saved 10k and lets say you make 40,000 and you only saved 4k? Would you feel like the person that worked hard and made more was favored?

think about it....

Jeff~

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Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :

Crystal clear thinking from Jeff.
No need to add more.

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Wright Signs
Wyandotte, Michigan
Since 1978
www.wrightsigns.bigstep.com
All change isn't progress, and all progress isn't forward.

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