The Letterville BullBoard: negotiation

This is topic negotiation in forum Old Archives at The Letterville BullBoard.

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Posted by Preston McCall (Member # 351) on :

I have noticed a definite change in my own negotiating skills when I am swamped, compared to when I am looking for work. It has always baffled me as I have seen this is a definite mind set deal. Attitude does play a role. I would be curious about how the rest of us see this?
Now for the big question....How do you, the sign selling pro, successfully overcome a potentially good client's price objection? We all have the bozo who thinks we should work for peanuts, but I am talking about the serious client who is simply stuck on a low price. Let's hear all the creativity on this one. We can all use some fresh ideas on this one?

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Preston McCall
2516 W 63rd St.
Mission Hills, Kansas
66208
913-262-3443 office
816-289-7112 cell

Posted by Mikes Mischeif (Member # 1744) on :

Preston, I have a home based business which in itself gets people thinking: Low overhead, low price, or great, Heres a guy with a pager who makes signs as a hobbie.

When I go to meet a customer to make a first impression, I show up with wrinkle free dockers, a collared shirt (insert favorite ridiculous logo here) on the pocket. Shined shoes over matching socks, and combed hair. I will wear boots to a construction site though.

A nice watch, and a pen in my pocket tips my hand right away that I aint there for the free coffee.

Portfolio in hand and a business card in my shirt pocket means I'm prepared to let you know Lettercraft Signs IS gonna make you look as professional as I do.

I don't pull quotes from the sky, so they can NEVER argue price to my face. I'll fax a quote and If I've made an impression it's a yes or no deal (I only get called back on yes quotes).

90 percent of my work is referral, so good customers refer equally good people. Once in a while I get the "What is the cash discount.." I say: I don't take cash...HAHAHA! They get the point.

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Mike Duncan
Lettercraft Signs
Alexandria VA

From here on down, its all up hill.

Posted by PKing (Member # 337) on :

Seems like "serious customer" and "stuck on low price" is an oxymoron.IF any customer can not see the true value of signs.Then the sign maker is not educating the customer throughly.It takes a More serious sign maker to stay true to his/her pricing regardless of the customer.

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PKing is
Pat King of
King Sign Design in
McCalla,Alabama
The Professor of
SIGNOLOGY

Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :

hehehehehe...sounds like Pat has it figgered perfectly!

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Si Allen #562
La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
ICQ # 330407
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"

Brushasaurus on Chat

Gladly supporting this BB !

Posted by Tim Barrow (Member # 576) on :

I've found out along time ago "never lettem see ya sweat!" always & I mean always no matter how slow things are "fit" the customer into a schedule of some sorts.When I first started this biz alot longer than I would wanna admit, the saying went,...a good signpainter is always busy beware of one looking for work.So is the nature of our business, always & I mean always be busy as far as the customer is concerned! A sign person looking for work in years past was either one who was undependable or unable to deliver a good end product.Remember ya can always come down from a price that is too high but it is almost impossible to raise a price once one is given,....And above all,...walk tha walk & talk tha talk! As Mike just suggested be ready for what ever pitch they throw at ya.Ya can't be at your best if you're distracted by an insecurity derived from anything that makes ya uncomfortable so put your best foot forward, and get the best price ya can get.You can't do your best work if you are expecting less than is necessary to do the best job possible.Besides,... it's alot easier to do exceptional work when you are expecting to recieve exceptional wages.No one is content doing work for less than it is actually worth.

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fly low...timi/NC
is,.....Tim Barrow
Barrow Art Signs
Winston-Salem,NC
http://artistsfriend.com/signs

[This message has been edited by timi NC (edited June 07, 2001).]

Posted by Jackson Smart (Member # 187) on :

When a new customer walks into my shop...they seem to stop...take a look around...thier eyes widen...then they get a look that say's "Uh-oh..this is gonna cost me!"
The ones that walk out...good!..the ones that stay...Great! Those are the ones I am happy to work for.

Like TimiNC said....never let em see ya sweat...stand right up and state your price...then smile!

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Jackson Smart
Jackson's Signs
Port Angeles, WA
...."The Straits of Juan De Fuca in my front yard and Olympic National Park in my backyard...

"Living on Earth is expensive...but it does include a free trip around the Sun"

Posted by ScooterX (Member # 2023) on :

1. read the book "You Can Negotiate Anything" (at least, i THINK that's the title) by a guy named Cohn (Cohen?). bestseller for years - you can find it at any used book store. offer them two bits less than the price they've written in it and say "I saw there were four copies on your shelf...". Just to practice.

2. make your price dependent on size, quality AND delivery date. that way, if they want topay less, you can offer to adjust to their price- by making the sign smaller, by making the sign less complex, or by making the sign "as you can fit it into your schedule over the next three weeks". if your customer REALLY is a good customer, and REALLY wants to wiggle on price, then he needs to wiggle with you on some other part of the deal.

3. if this is a consistently good customer, then offer a discount if he guarantees you a certain amount of work. (probably doesn't apply, but maybe if you had a furniture store that has a new window splash every month, then you could give them a discount if they give you a signed contract to do that window every month for a year. that way you lock in the price and you "guaranty" yourself some income.

4. if this customer ALWAYS asks for a lower price, then increase the bid before you give it to him. then you can back it down to the regular price and make him happy. (some guys just want to feel they "got a deal").

(hey, any San Francisco sign painters need a salesman?)

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:: Scooter Marriner ::
:: Coyote Signs ::
:: San Francisco ::
:: don't blame me... i'm just a beginner
::

Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :

Hi Preston, I use a little bit of all the methods mentioned above, and enjoy the status of top dog in my area which helps tremendously. Our work tends to be very custom, using exotic materials and gobs of labor. The prices can be startling. I have trouble sometimes blurting out these really high prices because I have an engrained mind set of what things 'used' to cost or 'should' cost. Things have changed - dramatically! Everything costs me more and has to be passed on - the old formulas and rules-of-thumb for estimating are gone.

So, the most important thing I do is not give prices in the field (or on the phone). And price each job by a realistic time and materials without fooling myself with optimism - and confirm those prices and availability on the materials before quoting.

The new higher prices are readily accepted by some people (maybe those who havn't bought signs before), and roundly balked at by others - probably people who have the same problem I do with a mind set about what things 'used' to cost. I find increasingly necessary to do my homework and be very thorough with the bidding - offering not only the typical two-to-three tier pricing, but sometimes four, five, or six-tier pricing.

The need for sixth-tier pricing happened to me just today. Bad form on my part...I thought I was prepared with sufficient options, but everything was still very expensive. In discussing the job with the client I thought of a way to save them about 20% without impacting the overall appearance or durability very much. That 20% translates to $1000 which they simply don't have. Flexibility in materials and techniques will salvage this bid.

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Joe Rees
Cape Craft Signs
(Cape Cod, MA)
http://www.capecraft.com
e-mail: joerees@capecraft.com

Posted by Bob Gilliland (Member # 28) on :

I would like to present another approach similar to what Scooter offered in number three. For a new customer or an existing customer with “credit” problems, a signed contract may be nothing more than an unenforceable (read-cost prohibited) promise if they go belly up or never follow thru on their end. Problem is, they would have already realized a partial credit and you a partial loss. To reduce the chance of this happening while keeping the control in your hands, and still give the same end result, try this; give the discount on the last “unit” sold or incremental as the job goes on, so that at any time during this “contract” period you are not realizing a loss.

New customer says he has a truck he wants lettered, “And keep in mind that if they price is right, I’ll bring you nine more to do this year.” As an example, you are willing to give him a 10% discount on each vehicle because of this “volume work.” If the customer receives the discount on the first truck and never returns, you’re at a loss. Offer the tenth one free instead. The customer needs to follow through till the end to get the discount and you’re in control the whole time and not at a loss.

The other approach would be to give an increasing discount as the “jobs” go on. First truck at full price, second truck at less 2%, third truck less 4%, etc until the last unit gets a 28% discount. This takes some of the control away from you and a little more faith in the customer, but your still “ahead” in the money compared to the across the board 10% discount (but would be at a loss if the customer pulled out of the deal early).

I’m with Pat and Si on the answer to this question. The customer needs to understand the value in their investment.

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For what it's worth

Bob Gilliland
The InKnowVative Group
Harrisburg, PA
717.564.7650
bgilliland@inknowvativegroup.com

"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge:
argument is an exchange of ignorance"
Robert Quillen

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