You know, working in a one man shop, a person has a lot of time to think about a lot of stuff. One thing that has always puzzled me is why there aren't more black folks in the trade. It's very strange, don't you think, that there aren't hardly any people of color in this business? Maybe I just haven't paid close enough attention, but look around at the next meet, or go through past issues of the trade magazines (any of them), and I'll bet dollars to doughnuts you can count all the non-whites on one hand,with fingers to spare.
Does anyone have a theory about this?(How about you, Glenn Taylor?)
------------------
Posted by Jerry Starpoli (Member # 1559) on :
Reminds me of when I was in the Army early 60's at Fort Slocum (New Rochelle), NY. There was a civilian sign painter worked on the post for the Army. To this day I can still see the gorgeous lettering that this man did. He was also very helpful with tips for this then 20 year old kid. He was a true inspiration. Haven't seen many other black sign painters except for Muhammad Ali's father.
------------------ Pat Swerna Old Time Carny Painter...on the road
Posted by Wm. J. Krupinski (Member # 1746) on :
Brian-
Actually, I have wondered the same thing myself for years. Maybe something to do with economics?
Yer Pal--Bill Krupinski Jefferson, WI--dangerously close to the 2001 Milwaukee Panel Jam in Waukesha (another place you won't see many black faces...)
------------------ wizitude Wm. J. Krupinski ArtFirst Studio Jefferson, WI kruptoons@netscape.net
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Good question. I remember a black sign painter from my early days named Charlie Young. Really had a bunch of good hand lettered scripts: great signman. A friend in the business who came up the same time as me, has lost a good part of his eyesight beginning in his 30's. One tough break for "Mac" one the best wall letterers around. The last few years I have noticed a dearth of black sign people and haven't a clue why.
------------------ Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Since 1978 www.wrightsigns.bigstep.com All change isn't progress, and all progress isn't forward.
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
I have no idea, either! In all the years in the biz, I have only met two, one one is a tiny gal, but she is one heck-of-a walldog!
------------------ Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA (714) 521-4810 ICQ # 330407 "SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Brushasaurus on Chat
Gladly supporting this BB !
Posted by Myra Grozinger (Member # 327) on :
I owe my start in the sign business to a little wiry black man, Fred Lovell. He could make a quill do anything, was a gold leaf specialist, and said he could not remember when he was not painting signs. He had a sign business here in my town for about 40 years before old age and a few bad habits retired him. Even though it hurt his income he steadfastly refused to see that the new way of making signs was really going to take a foothold. Though later he at times got some vinyl letters from me, or allowed me to make a simple pattern for him, computers and plotters just were not in the picture for Fred. I was in my mid twenties when we met. My son was in preschool, and my husband kept complaining about his sign maker not delivering what he promised. At issue were steady orders of screen- printed window signs. I had a background in graphic arts and architectural drafting and wanted to get out of the house during the hours the kid was in school. So one day I drove to the guy’s shop, found out he was a black man in a questionable part of town, and introduced myself, greatly intrigued. I am not one to mention my now Ex-husband with great admiration, but his not ever having mentioned the man was black is to his credit. I looked around and there was the biggest mess I had ever seen of interesting looking implements of drafting and painting equipment and a banner board from here to eternity. Mind you this was the early seventies. I was so intrigued that I offered my services for free until we both got to know each other. I ended up scrubbing screens, cutting Amberlith and watersoluble stencils, setting up screens, trying to letter, answering the phone, prepping vehicles. I worked for him for three years for three hours a day. I worked really really hard and it did not matter at what. He paid me 3.50 an hour with never an increase, but I owe him more than I owe most anyone I can think of. Mostly I was watching and listening because I was hooked on sign making from the get go. At home I spent my afternoons lettering on the newspaper columns of the classifieds. Perfect distances for up and down and curved strokes for the 1 “ basic letters. Little did I know I was gearing up to make a living with this for the little one and myself, the husband was in the process of behaving his way out of the picture. For many, many years while I could still find him, I often would call Fred and thank him. Without you I would not have survived I say, and he would laugh, and I would mean it. I’m happy to get to give him this accolade. I not only learned the start of this wonderful and ever interesting craft, but also got insight into a culture and became acclimated in the world of black people in the US of A. Not something I would have had a chance to do otherwise and it has been an eye opener and has rounded me out. Glad this post came up so I could reminisce a bit. Not how to cut this down to size…..
------------------ “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.” - Anais Nin www.samazon.com sam@samazon.com
Posted by PKing (Member # 337) on :
I learned Billboard work in the early 70's in Savanna Ga.from a young talented Black man Have associated with at least 3 here in the Birmingham AL area since the 80's You don't suppose Whites are gluttons for punishment,from the general public?
------------------ PKing is Pat King of King Sign Design in McCalla,Alabama The Professor of SIGNOLOGY
Posted by Mikes Mischeif (Member # 1744) on :
I walk thru our local mall to find a young black man doing murals in an upscale urban clothing store. You know the ones....$800 custom leather jackets. He's doing unbelievable murals of 2-pac and all the other gangsta/rappers/thugs on the backs.
That takes BIG ONES to work on those and not screw up. There is no "wiping off".
He's a former grafitti bandit with unbeivable talent. He could be a sign guy, but it would not pay his bills with what he makes doing "ART".
You can take his airbrush class for $200 bucks an hour, 10 at a time.
You do the Math.
------------------ Mike Duncan Lettercraft Signs Alexandria VA
From here on down, its all up hill.
Posted by Tim Barrow (Member # 576) on :
I Like Myra have to thank Fred for a few tips here & there too! His son Reggie still runs the business & it's still right there on tha side of the expressway here in Winston-Salem,NC!
------------------ fly low...timi/NC is,.....Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC http://artistsfriend.com/signs
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
Mike...are you talking about the guy in Springfield Mall?
------------------ Gavin Chachere aka Zeeman Miller Supply Co./Ozone Signs & Grafix New Orleans La. www.millersupply.net www.ozonegrafix.com
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
the guy who peeked my interest was a deaf mute and black...he could draw anything...he used to live in my town and my mom hada grocery store at that time i was 5-7 years old...boy i couldnt wait till he would come back to show me more stuff....ive been here in pensacola since 98..and had a really good painter friend workin with me...he was also black...i told him if he wanted to learn about computers and stuff id be glad to show him...at present hes mad at me for not doin a layout for him the way he expected it..with out tellin me what he wanted...
------------------ joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-944-5060 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND
Posted by Santo (Member # 411) on :
I've met 2 or 3 here locally and know of several more in N.O. and Houma. I can see by your posts that most of you live in places where blacks are a true minority. No so here in the south. Of course, we don't have to drive 8-10 miles to get in the black side of town either. We live and work daily with blacks. They are represented in every craft, skill and profession. Again the problem is your perception. Your little world is awful small. Do you frequent the areas where black owned businesses are located? Could be your locale.
Santo, you are right. Around here in the Detroit area we are not likely to run into any black folk. Detroit is only 85% black now, so how do I expand my little world? My perception is fine, it's your premises that need to be examined.
------------------ Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Since 1978 www.wrightsigns.bigstep.com All change isn't progress, and all progress isn't forward.
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
There is a high percentage of black people in my neck of the woods. There don't seem to be any black sign people here though and it has intrigued me as well. However, a couple of years ago in Panama City, about 50 miles from here, I noticed a black man hand lettering on the stucco wall of a motorcycle shop. He painted a supergraphic of an eagle and the shop's name. I must say it looked first class.
But, I don't remember having ever seen ANY black folk featured in trade magazines.
------------------ "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein
Failure to advertise is a lot like blinking in the dark. Nobody, but you, knows what you're doing.
Point well taken, Dave. If your that close to the Detroit area, you are in a very high black population. No scenerio is going to fit every case. This one will fit most in this country and Canada. Yes, you can point out urban centers where blacks are in a majority, like yours. Look at the industry in your part of the country. That where your skilled labor is going black, white, yellow, green or blue. That's where a person can support their family. By the way what's the percentage out there in the burbs of Wyandotte?
[This message has been edited by Santo (edited June 05, 2001).]
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
There are plenty here in the New Orleans area,both paint and vinyl,as well as airbrush and murals....and,b4 this post goes off in a direction that it shouldnt...the point Santo is trying to make here is that despite the assumption that since southerners we're all racist maniacs,is that we all live together here,same neighborhoods,same streets etc,and not real seperation between city/suburb living...most cases thats only decided by a side of a street....noones segregated off from each other,we have no chinatown,black only section of town,vietnamese only section etc etc,so it really doesnt strike a chord as unusual when you see anybody doing anything around here profession wise,it just doesnt seem unusual.
As far as his premise being off....it's not as far off as you want to think it is,although it's not what a lot of people want to believe,and not what the intention of this post was,IMO.
Now back t the question....large amount here in the New Orleans Metro Area
------------------ Gavin Chachere aka Zeeman Miller Supply Co./Ozone Signs & Grafix New Orleans La. www.millersupply.net www.ozonegrafix.com
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
for those into vehicle art and pinstriping, does Steve Stanford ring a bell?
------------------ HotLines Joey Madden,47 years in the Classic Art of Pinstriping Grants Pass, Oregon Learn something...... http://members.tripod.com/Inflite
Posted by Santo (Member # 411) on :
Well said Gavin, you read the post and read between the lines. What's happening with the original post is that when we take a very small sample of the overall pospulation, signmakers, the question is asked, why there are a small number of black signmakers? That makes the sample smaller even in some places. We will never get a true picture of this without some solid statistics, just a perception. I bet you could go find plenty in Harlem, Detroit, Chicago. You are right about my making a point about perceived southern rasism. Why do the points of a compass come up when someone mentions racism. Is it because it thrives, not only in the south, but in the existance of such places as: Chicago's South Side East St. Louis East Los Angeles South Boston Harlem
I see ya mention East St Louis.. Don't forget St. Louis too, I used to live there. =) East St Louis... aka: The East Side.. When a white guy in St Louis says "Im goin to the East Side" everyone knows what he's up to cause there's only one reason for whitey to go over there.. strip clubs. East St Louis doesnt really offer anyone anything.. no real industry.. the place is poor.. although they're definitely starting to build it back up. My dad reminds me of family road trips we took when I was pretty young, when we'd drive over the bridges to head into Illinois and I'd ask him "Dad, how come there are houses in that junkyard?" "Well son, it's a pretty big junkyard, about the size of a whole city."
------------------ Mike Pipes Digital Illusion Custom Graphics Lake Havasu City, AZ http://www.stickerpimp.com
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Reminds me Mike, of an author I know who came to Detroit from out of town with his daughter. After driving for a little while, the daughter(8)asked her dad, "who broke this place". Sorry, to break the continuity of the thread, but had to respond to Mike's similar story.
------------------ Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Since 1978 www.wrightsigns.bigstep.com All change isn't progress, and all progress isn't forward.
Posted by Sonny Franks (Member # 588) on :
I met a very talented black sign painter from New Jersey at the Belvidere mural meet. He was working on the far left side of Bill Hueg's mural, but I can't remember his name. Can anybody else?
------------------ Sonny Franks Atlanta
"Well done beats well said every time"
Posted by Mark Fair Signs (Member # 289) on :
there is a fellow in my town who is a great sign painter and pictorial artist. his name is curtis and he is black. curtis has worked many years for an established sign company.
curtis finally struck out on his own!
the fellow has a grasp on how to blend colors with paint!
Maybe the Black Sign Makers just do not have the same EGOS as some of us...
I think our perspective is colored (no pun intended) because we don't see any HIGH PROFILE Black sign artists.
For what is worth, there are only a HANDFUL of professional black comic artists too.
It is strange that there have been NONE featured in any of the trade publications in at least the last 10 years (that I am aware of). But is it just because they choose not to submit their stuff (like the rest of us egomaniacs)? That is a question worth exploring...those in the KNOW: "are their many submissions to the Trades from black artists?"
Barry
------------------ Master's Touch Signs & Screenprinting Clinton AR 5017456246 ICQ 17430008 "Imagine the Possibilities..."
[This message has been edited by Tasmus (edited June 06, 2001).]
