The Letterville BullBoard: Quicky quotes... dangerous to ones' business?

This is topic Quicky quotes... dangerous to ones' business? in forum Old Archives at The Letterville BullBoard.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
http://www.letterville.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/13/3314.html

Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :

I was just curious how the rest of you handle it when customers ask for a 'quick quote.'

I don't know about you, but everytime I do one of these off the top of my head estimates, I shoot myself in the foot.

So, I stood my ground the other day. A salesman approached me as I was lettering/striping a firetruck and asked me 'roughly' how much should he allow for a budget for a particular truck he was bidding on. Of course, he also mentioned he would call ME to do it... (LOL, hasn't used me yet)

I simply turned to him and said, (having just been burned by a quicky quote) "I don't do quotes in bays any longer. If you'd like to fax me the specs of the project, I'd be glad to fax you back with an estimate for the job."

"But I just want to know roughly what I'm looking at. Is $400 enough? $500?..."

"It may be $300. It may be $1000. I don't know off hand. I'd love to be able to just come up with the right figure for you, however I may quote too low for my liking, or too high for yours. I'm sorry I can't help you right at the moment."

Sounded pretty good, huh? Well, today I wing it and do it to myself, freely offering a price to someone. I was actually attempting to slightly upsell and obviously had to come up with a quick figure to indicate what he'd be looking at for the increased value in work. Blah, I think I was too low again.

My question:
Are you capable of winging it with accurate prices for upgrades to a job when you're not in the safety of your office and calculator?

------------------
Graphic Impact
Abbotsford, BC, Canada
gisigns@sprint.ca

Posted by PKing (Member # 337) on :

Yes quick quotes are tuff.My First answer is
Thooooouuuuusannnnds(of pennies)this usally breaks the ice as the customer finds it hard mathmaticly to realize a thousand pennies is
only $10.00. When ask how much is a sign? I always ask how long is a piece of rope?Their answer is "well depends on how much you cut it" and I don't know how long a piece of rope you have in mind.When asked for a "Ball Park Price" next thing I say is

epends on if we are playing in a backyard sand lot or Shea Statium.After all it is the SAME GAME just a fancier park! IF they still don't see my point,I will say that I don't what to CHEAT THEMwith a quick price and that I Damn sure don't want to CHEAT MYSELF!IF by then they still insist on a number I ALWAYS give the higher end.This way if they really want it,it would be worth my time.
Hope this helps

------------------
PKing is
Pat King of
King Sign Design in
McCalla,Alabama
The Professor of
SIGNOLOGY

Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :

I get that kind of stuff all of the time. My usual answer is "I guarantee it'll be less than a million bucks." Most get the point. Although, I've had more than one building contractor to continue to push for an answer. That's when I ask them how much a house cost.

------------------
Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.
http://members.tripod.com/taylor_graphics
walldog@nc.rr.com

Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :

Donna...Same as you I used to always regret giving "ballpark" quotes, so I don't do it any more. If they INSIST, I will say something like you yourself suggested "Oh, somewhere between $100 and $1000".

Did that over the phone a couple of days ago and then went on to meet with the guy and did give him an accurate quote based on the size and intricasy of the job. I hope to get the approval today.

------------------
Dave Grundy
AKA "applicator" on mIRC
"stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!"
in Granton, Ontario, Canada
1-519-225-2634
dave.grundy@quadro.net
www.quadro.net/~shirley

Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :

Good one Donna
My reply to the customer on the spot or over the phone is....
$1.00 to a Million, You take your pick!

Now lets talk about your needs and then I can give you a price!

------------------
Raven/2001
Airbrushed by Raven
Lower Sackville N.S.
deveausdiscovery@sprint.ca

[This message has been edited by Stephen Deveau (edited May 24, 2001).]

Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :

It does not work to "ballpark" high either:

A good Friend is the director for the Local MAIN STREET ( a state-sponsored revitalization effort) Chapter, and he is sponsoring a new summer festival for our area. I have already designed the logo, complete with a mascot for the thing....with the promise that we will do everything graphicly for the event(banners, signs T-shirts, etc.). He says"Just gimme a ball park on what 200 4 color T-shirts are gonna run..."

I think quick, and realize I am really not sure, as there are a lot of variables to be considered, etc. He pressed on and I quoted a high, and comfortable 9.50 each. He was okay with that, saying he could sell em for 15 and still make money...blah blah

All is well til he gets to the dreaded committee!!

"That's awful high...here call this guy"

You know the drill. Anyway, this guy, who DID NOT do the artwork and so on quotes it at 5.75 per unit!!

This puts my friend in an awkward position, but I think we can work it out. that is not the point here anyway...the point is, even when you "QUICKY QUOTE" High you risk disaster. From now on, it will be a "real quote" or nothing.

just my 2¢
Barry

------------------
Master's Touch Signs & Screenprinting
Clinton AR
5017456246
ICQ 17430008
"Imagine the Possibilities..."

Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :

NEVER...,.NEVER...,.NEVER.....give an "on the spot" quote. The "customer" is almost always looking for the cheapest quote, with no regard for anything else. This is what the YELLOW PAGES brings you!
I always get their name and number FIRST, then call back with a solid quote, unless I need to SEE what they want....like a logo reproduction or something.
Overall, I try to get them into the shop to
discuss some of the variables they may have not considered.....then the quote.....then a DEPOSIT!

------------------
Bob Burns
Bob Burns Signs

1619 Oregon Ave.
Prescott, Az 86305
1-520-778-5879

Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :

i tell em dollar, two ninety eight....thats leave em thinkin....then i tell em i do ever thing based on measurements....i need to to know how big....how many...and where its located or going to be...and i dont do anything for less then $10....and being a mobile sign shop....i have to do quick quotes....or i dont get the work...and with the laptop....its my #1 sales tool....if i throw somethin up on the screen and flip thru a few fonts....(basicly baffel them with choices) i get the job and no price haggels...and since i am mobile i ask for more money on these jobs...and dont get the old "can you do it cheaper" line....

------------------
joe pribish-A SIGN MINT
2811 longleaf Dr.
pensacola, fl 32526
850-944-5060
BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND

Posted by Jerry Mathel (Member # 526) on :

Well folks, I have to disagree here a little bit. Some potential customers have no idea what a sign costs, so they do the natural thing and ask. I fail to see that is a problem. A few minutes spent talking with a potential customer might just get you a job you would otherwise not get.

Not too long ago I was lettering a truck at a truck shop, spun aluminum with a little airbrush. Another trucker watched a few minutes and then asked "How much does something like that cost?"

He really had no idea what truck lettering cost but liked what he was looking at.

Bottom line... It was what he wanted and was in the price range he was willing to pay. I lettered his new truck a few days later when he took delivery. I think if I had given him a "brush off" answer, he would have walked away.

------------------
Jerry Mathel
Jerry Mathel Signs
Grants Pass, Oregon
signs@grantspass.com

Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :

Jerry,
I think the trucker story, well, it seems a bit different than what this post was about. If you're doing a job on one truck and asked what something like that costs, you're telling him what the current job you are doing costs, just so he has a ballpark. (just make sure you specify "this job" and tell him "depending on EXACTLY what you want, it may be higher or lower.) Now, had he asked you (as you're striping a truck) "What would a sign cost?" well, that's completely different.
I've come up with one way to handle the people who press for a price. Say someone wants to know "what it'll cost for ya to make me a sign?" I start takling with them, discussing size, materials, colors, layout. I explain that I need to know as much as possible before I can give them a figure, that I really can't just throw a number out. When they press more and instead of discussing specifics, say "just give me an idea" and I really don't know any details of the job, I turn the tables. Say it's a garage, I ask "what'll it cost to fix my car?" when they ask what's wrong with it, I tell them "just give me an idea of price" and smile. It works for a lot of types of businesses. Then I tell them, it's really the same thing, I would need to know specifics so I could figure materials, time, etc.

------------------
Chris King
Paper Works & Graphix
Indiana, PA

Posted by Brenda Daley Giuseppin (Member # 37) on :

I've shot myself in the foot many times for on the spot quoting.
Now I just tell them that I need a moment to figure out how much vinyl or other materials I am using before I can quote the job. Then I tell them that when ever I quote on the spot I'm usually about 25% higher than I should be, so for their sake they should give me chance to figure it out properly.
It always works....when they think you are looking out for their best interest.

------------------
Brenda Beaupit
Classic Graphics
Kemptville, Ont
CANADA

Posted by Mark Fair Signs (Member # 289) on :

if it is a run of the mill type sign job such as simple magnetics, yard signs etc. i can give the customer a "quick price.
but if they walk in with a real involved sign job and demand a quick quote then i try and explain that pricing such an involved job takes time.

if they are insistent, then i tell them that i must pad or inflate the cost somewhat in order to cover my production costs.(in laymen's terms...my ass)

if it is a project that i can handle then i show them a portfolio piece that i have done similar to the one requested and then we progress from there as far as cost.

most of the time they understand.
if not, then there is always another sign shop down the street.
very rarely do i tell the customer this unless they are "demanding"

you have to use a certain amount of "tact"
when dealing with a "potential customer"
(even though i rarely use "tact" on the old bullboard")

great thread donna.

------------------
Mark Fair

Mark Fair Signs
http://www.markfair.com

Home of "Sign of the Month
http://www.markfair.com/signomonth.html

2162 Mt. Meigs Road
Montgomery, Alabama 36107
334-262-4449

mark@markfair.com

[This message has been edited by Mark Fair Signs (edited May 24, 2001).]

Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :

mark is that tact like in...rapid tact??? and chris...when you been at this many years and have done so many different jobs...the prices for those things stick in your head....magnetics, $60 a pair, graphics extra. 18"x24" corplast single sided $15 2 sided $30 stand $3 art work extra.. 2 vehicle doors $100 art work extra... van lettering $250 and up...box truck lettering starts at $400 for a 14' price goes up along with length and if it has rivits or coragated it will cost more....banners same way...2x6 is $50, 2x8 is $80, 2 x10 $100..art work extra double sided double the price..boats are easy...ask the guy what he paid for it..then make the lettering price 10-20% of that..heheheh..real simple pricing...alway include ART WORK IS EXTRA...and that will save your a** when it come to doing the computer scanning and lay out..

------------------
joe pribish-A SIGN MINT
2811 longleaf Dr.
pensacola, fl 32526
850-944-5060
BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND

[This message has been edited by old paint (edited May 25, 2001).]

Posted by Del Badry (Member # 114) on :

liten up Donna.... when a salesman asks ya a question... give him an approx. answer... i do it probably every other day.... he's not going to nail ya down if ya tell him its approx... you can p*ss someone off by not giving him a quote.... this aint rocket science.....

------------------
Del "aka" badge
trimline@canada.com
Holden, Alberta

Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on :

I've shot myself in the foot so many times in the past I don't think I have any toes left

Now, I do not "quote" prices ... I can give them a "standard" price for magnetics, 8x4s, A frames etc etc and carry our Oz Price guide to back it up. But NEVER a firm quote!
If they really want a price on something ... guess high and tell them you can probably do it for less Just don't commit yourself before you get the facts!

You can always give a potential customer a "rough" idea of the price. As said before, most of them have no idea of what the cost could be.

------------------
Bushie
aka Jon Butterworth
Jonsigns
old signwriters never retire ... they just fade into the background!
Toowoomba,Queensland
Australia.

Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :

I usually come out ahead when I give quickie quotes because I have to come up with a number and I always overestimate anyways.

When I have time to sit down and figure out exactly how much a job is going to be, well there goes the neighborhood cause now I've used up budgeted time for that job trying to come up with an accurate and reasonable quote.

When I have to come up with a number off the top of my head, I have a pretty simple formula for figuring out the price, depending what it is. If they want airbrushing on top of vinyl, my formula basically doubles the price. If they want two colors of vinyl, that's double the cost of a single color.. if they want two colors of vinyl plus airbrushing, well that's 4X the cost of a single color of vinyl.

Being able to give a price on the spot only helps you, but if you repeatedly shoot yourself in the foot you need to revise your own methods of coming up with a price.

If you're working on a job in the field and someone asks you how much a similar item would be, why cant you just tell them the price for the job you're working on, plus or minus 10%? They're basically asking you what you charged for that job, and if they want something similar, your price shouldnt be too far off that.
If you burn time "Hmmm'ing and Haw'ing" tryin to figure out a price the potential customer is going to figure you dont know how to come up with a general price formula, or they might even think you're burning them.

Of course, if you are already too busy and arent hungry none of that even matters.

------------------
Mike Pipes
Digital Illusion Custom Graphics
Lake Havasu City, AZ
http://www.stickerpimp.com

Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :

One last note...

If ya cant bark out a price, your customer may think YOU dont know YOUR business.

What sounds more professional?

Customer asks: "How much is something like those truck doors you're working on?"

Your response: "Ohhhh... I dont know (or I dont give quotes on the spot), I have to go back to the shop and figure it out after we have a chance to go over some options."

"$250 for something very similar to this, but we can discuss some other design/price options if you don't mind stopping by my shop." then hand 'em a business card.

------------------
Mike Pipes
Digital Illusion Custom Graphics
Lake Havasu City, AZ
http://www.stickerpimp.com

Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :

Still Mike, you are giving him or her the price of what you are doing at the time. If they ask you how much is a 4x 8, its harder to give a ballpark price. If I do, I tell them, My basic prices for a 4x8 are anywhere from 100 (coroplast), to 600 and up, depending on colors, copy, artwork, installation, etc.
I don't like to give quotes like that, but at times I do. The worst thing I hate, is when somebody comes over to me and my family and sits down and starts telling me what he needs and so on, while we are in a restaurant. Or goes by in a vehicle and shouts, "How much do you charge for so and so...?" I just grin and shrug my shoulders on that one.
Excellent post Donna.

------------------
John Deaton III
Deaton Design
109 N. Cumberland Ave.,Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-573-9101

john@deatondesigns.com
www.deatondesigns.com
"Don't tailgate, or I'll flick a booger on your windshield."-Larry Richmond, 11th grade english class.

Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :

John,

So, you should still be able to tell them a rough ballpark what they should expect to spend.

I was at a local business applying some truck lettering this week, they're close to the post office so I said I'd do it while I was out.

While I was in their parking lot someone asks me how much to produce and install graphics on a 53' Semi trailer for Yamaha Factory watercraft racing.
Well, based on my experience with the Kawasaki trailers and Yamaha trailers I did last year, I was able to tell him "Anywhere between $3,000 and $8,000 depending on coverage, complexity, and if you need all the other sponsor logos as well."
That's a totally different job that I was working on yet I was still able to quote a price.. it's just based on past experience.

------------------
Mike Pipes
Digital Illusion Custom Graphics
Lake Havasu City, AZ
http://www.stickerpimp.com

Posted by ron norwood (Member # 1492) on :

Hey Donna,,,,,,,,,,,,,I had lunch with one of your clients on Wednesday.....You did Vinyl Graphics on his pick-up......he had no problem with the price.....said you did really great work...........he took his truck home and his kid's hated it....took the graphics off.........lol.................as for salesmen asking for a ballbark price.......never............I'm assuming that the fellow asking for the "'quote"" was negotiating with a potential customer to sell a truck.......too........those kinds of quotes never work......he will work his end...and take it off of your's..........just my 2.5 Cents

RON

------------------
"Of all the things I've lost in my life...I miss my mind the most"
Ron Norwood
6732 Raleigh Street
Vancouver, BC V5S 2X1
Phone/Fax: (604) 437-0899
email.hitest@mailcity.com

[This message has been edited by hitest (edited May 26, 2001).]

Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :

It also ain't rocket science to keep one's mouth shut if something comes out that shouldn't. I tend to spit out prices too cheap, and YES, some do hold it against me, EVEN if I say it's a questimate, estimate, I'm sleeping, whatever.

I don't know about the rest of you, however if I ever estimate a job, then have to charge more, I always feel bad about it even if I have a right to do so. I'd rather quote the job appropriately, WHEN the timing is better for me, not when I'm about to smack on a wet reflective stripe on the side of a truck in too warm weather dealing with a chatty cathy at the same time.

I just wonder if that salesman could quote me a firetruck as fast as he wanted the stripe quote... ponder.

Ok Ron, with a post like that, you gotta give me more details! I'm dying to know what kids took off some of my graphics! LOL! I don't do work for Vancouverites generally, so I don't have a clue who you may be referring to.

------------------
Graphic Impact
Abbotsford, BC, Canada
gisigns@sprint.ca

[This message has been edited by Donna in BC (edited May 26, 2001).]

Posted by ron norwood (Member # 1492) on :

OK, Donna..........he's a long time friend of mine.....lives in Abbottsford....drives a red 1999?
ford PU........he liked the graphics his daughter andher boyfriend did'nt.......rather than listen to them wining and being nasty....they took them off..........

PS: when I asked him why he did'nt give me a call........he re[lied that he did'nt know I did vehicle graphics....go figure! LOL.......I think I should do a better job of marketing....with my friends....Ron

------------------
"Of all the things I've lost in my life...I miss my mind the most"
Ron Norwood
6732 Raleigh Street
Vancouver, BC V5S 2X1
Phone/Fax: (604) 437-0899
email.hitest@mailcity.com

Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :

Don

How dare you insult someone here because they did a job for "Your so called Friend!"

And then tell the person they didn't like it and ripped it off the vehicle....

Donna...
I hope you got you moneys worth!

And Don if you are so good at this then your friend would have come to you first!!!

But some how they didn't.

Bad call and format on your part...
--------------------------------------------
I don't hate my competitors but only admire them on how they got the job!!!

------------------
Raven/2001
Airbrushed by Raven
Lower Sackville N.S.
deveausdiscovery@sprint.ca

Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :

I always say I need to see their logo first. period. Too many times I have given out a price, then discovered their logo has lots of detail. But if they don't need a logo.....just a simple 'For Sale' on corex, or a simple banner, I have prices for those in my head.

------------------
surf or MoJo on mirc
Cheryl J Nordby
Signs by Cheryl
(206) 300-0153
Seattle WA.....!
signsbycheryl@hotmail.com
A day without sunshine is like, you know...night http://signsbycheryl.homestead.com/home.html
http://mojosignco.homestead.com/home.html

From sharp minds come sharp products

Posted by ron norwood (Member # 1492) on :

Wow, Stephen............I meant no disrespect to anyone..........It was not in any way intended to slam Donna, or, her work...........my friend was more than happy with the design and the price and the quality......his "spoiled" daugter and her boyfriend played him and rather than listen to them.....it was easier for him to let them remove the graphics....You may have noticed that I did'nt mention the price!!!!! I thought that would be unfair to Donna.....that's between her and her customer! As for bugging him about not calling me....that was meant as humour......I run into the same situation a lot...usually with people that don't understand what we do......BTW.......if I want to insult someone....they will get the drift real quick................Oh....is there an Upper Sackville..........just curious..........Ron

------------------
"Of all the things I've lost in my life...I miss my mind the most"
Ron Norwood
6732 Raleigh Street
Vancouver, BC V5S 2X1
Phone/Fax: (604) 437-0899
email.hitest@mailcity.com

Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :

It's not unusual to find your friends and relatives going elsewhere for their signs. In the 25 years we had a shop here in Fergus, my relatives in business rarely bought signs from us. One Uncle actually went so far as to tell us we were pirates and way overpriced.

Just last month a relative faxed me a design of a tombstone. To my eyes, it looked more like a ransom note than a well balanced design. I spent a couple hours walking in the cemetary looking at gravestones and then worked out a design of my own. Dad hated my design and went with the design done by the "artist" with Corel.

Sometimes it hurts, but after awhile you get used to it.

------------------
Steve Shortreed
144 Hill St., E.
Fergus, Ontario
Canada N1M 1G9
519-787-2673
steve@letterhead.com
ICQ 316338
www.letterhead.com/profiles/shortreed/

Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :

Ron

I am sorry as I guess I am way out of line here on this posting.

To think that I have the right to interfere with your direct comments to Donna was over my boundary.

I understand your friend and Donna had made a agreement on the ArtWork and the Kids didn't like it in the End.

So the kids make his life decisions. OK!

She(Donna) has to have got paid for the job.. Right?

But the way you brought it up was you didn't like the fact that the work wasn't given to you as your "FRIEND" didn't know you could do this.
Your first post was a teaser to Donna about someone she had dealt with.

And to openly say something about the outcome in the end is not something I would call a "Class Act!!!"

An E-Mail between you and her would have been more in the right area of approach!

Oh by the way there is a Lower,Middle and Upper Sackville next door to the Greater Halifax N.S.
I don't live in the woods!
And have been in this business for over 25 years.
Have a Good Day!

------------------
Raven/2001
Airbrushed by Raven
Lower Sackville N.S.
deveausdiscovery@sprint.ca

Posted by ron norwood (Member # 1492) on :

Well Mr. Stephen Deveau, thank you very much for your input!

Ron

------------------
"Of all the things I've lost in my life...I miss my mind the most"
Ron Norwood
6732 Raleigh Street
Vancouver, BC V5S 2X1
Phone/Fax: (604) 437-0899
email.hitest@mailcity.com

Posted by Aladd (Member # 1996) on :

Never do it unless it's something simple like a real estate sign, simple banner little stuff otherwise I write all the specifications on a work order and their phone # & tell them I will give them a call ASAP & that always satisfies them because I say it with a great deal of charm

LOL

------------------
Alan Ladd
Atlanta,Ga

Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :

Hi Ron,

I'd sure love it if you would reply to my email. Please email me if you didn't recieve it. Thanks!

------------------
Graphic Impact
Abbotsford, BC, Canada
gisigns@sprint.ca

Posted by Kent Smith (Member # 251) on :

Even after this post took a turn, I would offer my method for immediate quotes. I am always willing to give a price range for a type of work so that the potential customer can get an idea of what his budget would need to be. I also will always work into this conversation that I never give an actual quote without sitting down with specifics. The price range needs to be reasonable, based upon past experience but not so wide that the customer gets an unreasonable expectation as to the minimum costs. Without being too flippant, it is a good sales tool to get the customer to understand that every job is custom in some manner so there is no flat price. Signs are not a commodity that can be priced like retail stock on a shelf. It helps to get the customer to look at his requirements from our viewpoint and then take the time to work on his requirements at your desk with all the reference materials you require to give him an accurate price.

------------------
Kent Smith
Smith Sign Studio
Greeley, Colorado, USA
kent@smithsignstudio.com

Posted by ron norwood (Member # 1492) on :

hey.............YHM..................I am having problems getting thru............Ron

------------------
"Of all the things I've lost in my life...I miss my mind the most"
Ron Norwood
6732 Raleigh Street
Vancouver, BC V5S 2X1
Phone/Fax: (604) 437-0899
email.hitest@mailcity.com

UBB.classic™ 6.7.2