I posted this as a follow up basically to the what brand of vinyl do you use post. How long do you guarantee your jobs? Like these: TRUCKS CUSTOM EXTERIOR SIGNS(MDO,ETC) WINDOWS BANNERS SANDBLASTED I know some vinyl companies guarantee their premium up to 8 years. DO you guarantee your job for that long? And sandblasted signs. I know they will last a long time, but what kind of guarantee do you apply to them?
------------------ John Deaton III Deaton Design 109 N. Cumberland Ave.,Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-573-9101
The vinyl on my own truck failed at between four and five years. I know what I used, but it is not the purpose of this post to bash a manufacturer. When the sales rep came around and I showed him the failed vinyl, he wanted to know how I could be sure I actually used the vinyl I said I did. How many of us write on the work orders which vinyl we use on which job, and who can find records that far back?
The point of this is, those projections of vinyl life are just that, estimates. All kinds of things happen that affect the life of signs.
We formally (in writing) warrant our work for 90 days on the logic that anything we do in installation will usually show up in that time. Informally we repair "permanent" signs for a year unless there is an obvious external cause of some kind. On two occasions we have repaired signs much older. In both cases, our investigation confirmed that our subcontractors took shortcuts that caused the jobs to fail prematurely. Also in both cases, it is my belief that the sign owners could have taken us to court and won on the basis of latent defect.
I think you have to make these calls on what you feel is right, not whether it will land you in court, but if you think you will lose if the owner pursues it, then there is every motivation to make the repair and move on. Vic G
------------------ Victor Georgiou AnchorBlanks.com Handcrafted Designs-Cut to Any Size Wholesale Only
Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
When using H.P. vinyl, I guarantee FOREVER! I sure gets the customers, and I've yet to have a "call-back". Realistically, most businesses in my area, usually re-do their signs within 3-5 years, if they're still in business. Trucks get traded in, or beat up. Signs get damaged by one thing or another; locations change usually necessitating new signage. In any case, most people would be too embarrassed to come back and complain about a "job" 3-5 years after you've done it! But...if they do, I'll do it over.....but THAT has yet to happen.
------------------ Bob Burns Bob Burns Signs
1619 Oregon Ave. Prescott, Az 86305 1-520-778-5879
Posted by Steve Barba (Member # 431) on :
I have always told my customers that their sign should last 4-5 yrs, and if something happens that I caused,ie: paint falling off within a year, I'll fix it. I've got a sign I did 10 yrs ago,(red lettering, white bldg, faces the afternoon sun) that is still hanging tough. (why its not pink, I do not know). Also when I did all those jets while I was in the Air Force, I experimented alot. I tried everything. I painted over dirt and grime, used thin coats of paint, airbrushed effects over dried paint, and so on. Never had a problem with any of it. (20 paint jobs over 5 yrs). I am a believer in my product.
But, my bottom line is- I do not guarantee, just use common sense, and treat the customer right.
Bye
------------------ Steve Barba is the proud owner, president, & sole employee of Sturgis Sign Works. "B0LT" on the chat room thing. 209 Oak Drive Sturgis SD 57785 sbarba2616@dtgnet.com 605-720-7667
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
jobs i do that i use hp vinyl on i tell 4-5 yrs without any problems, if the vinyl comes off or curls..fading, will happen nothin i can do about that....intermediate vinyl..i express to customer that this is TEMPORARY SIGNAGE, 2-3 yr stuff and wont replace it if it fails in less time...the key word is TEMPORARY....thats what they paid for....magnetics...get my 5/50 warrenty(real temporary signs) which is 5 minutes or 50 MPH, whichever comes 1st.
------------------ joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-944-5060 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
I hardly ever have anyone ask that question anymore. Most ask how 'how hard is it to remove vinyl?'. I find that most people trade in their vehicles more frequently than 5-7 years anyway. But I still always use HP on all vehicles.
John, It's pretty hard to put a specific guarantee time on signwork. My basic guarantee is "workmanship and material" and if something fails in less than a reasonable time, I replace it but there are a lot of mitigating factors. A painted maroon sign on a south facing wall isn't going to have a very long life, and I tell the customer that right up front.
No guarantee whatsoever on magnetics. As for vehicles, some get taken care of while others get washed with a pressure washer. Being installed next to a sprinkler is going to shorten the life of a sandblasted sign. A banner that gets wadded up and stuffed in a box is going to be history in no time at all.
I think the answer is to give your customer a few instructions and a realsitic idea of what to expect and just sort of wing if from there.
I've had one cusomer want his sign replaced for free, becuase the gardener had over a period of about 5 years eaten away the bottom of the posts with an industrial weed eater.
------------------ Jerry Mathel Jerry Mathel Signs Grants Pass, Oregon signs@grantspass.com
Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :
Hi John,
We only offer to fix a problem if it fails in a couple months. Sometimes vinyl will come up in the deep horizontal grooves on the sides of a van. I just splice in a patch, because if I replace the whole graphic, its going to fail again, anyway.
4 color process Edge prints can fail in 2 years. Especially if there is red in the graphic. I have some that have lasted 5 years now, but since there is no red in the graphic, it looks old, but otherwise in good shape.
I tell the customer that in 3 years they should upgrade their product images anyway. Most of them are ready to trade in the vehicle after 4 years of heavy service use so they just put up with the fading graphics until trade in time.
------------------ Draper The Signmaker Bloomington Illinois USA Get To A Letterhead Meet This Summer! See you there! 309-828-7110 drapersigns@hotmail.com Draper_Dave on mIRC chat
Posted by PKing (Member # 337) on :
I give a concrete guarantee on all my jobs! As soon as they leave my concrete,the guarantee is over. Never had a recall yet Hope this helps
------------------ PKing is Pat King of King Sign Design in McCalla,Alabama The Professor of SIGNOLOGY
Posted by Brad Farha (Member # 931) on :
I give no written guarantees on materials, just life expectancy advice based on experience with the products. I guarantee all of what I do for one year, because if I did anything wrong, it will make itself known by then. I've never had a complaint yet in over twenty years, or had to replace anything because of premature failure.
For dimensional signs our agreements state "free of defects in materials or workmanship for not less than three years". In the four years we have had that policy, we intercepted two jobs that were showing problems. In both cases we noticed it before the client and made first contact to schedule an overhaul. One in particular was a nasty primer failure that required an complete strip and refinish. While we were at it we repainted the posts on that job too and upgraded another component, leaving the whole thing better than brand new. It was great public relations that not only endeared us to that client but gives us a great example for anyone who questions whether we stand behind our work.
If its material failure or my fault I take care of it. Time span is variable, but even if it's a little older, I kinda play every situation individually. Check the porfolio page, spent part of Sat. taking care of this.
------------------ Bill Dirkes Bethel Hill Signs Butler, Ky. Goodnight Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are.
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
On some jobs I give a percentage break down for each year. 100% first year 75% second year 50% third year 25% fourth year 0% fifth year After that it is sometimes better in letting them know that they will need a new sign or car lettering. This only applies in some areas of my work...
Hope this helps!
------------------ Raven/2001 Airbrushed by Raven Lower Sackville N.S. deveausdiscovery@sprint.ca
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
My contract reads;"Master's Touch Makes No specific warranty" that way I have absolute discretion as to what I will do when and if there is a problem. In nearly 8 years we have not had that many...but I learned my lesson early on; the first year I was in business I had a lady sue me for cutting "crooked letters" because SHE was to cheap to pay me my hourly rate to install it..at that time I had no contract, and I actually lost the case in court....the judge only gave her 50 bucks, less than 15% of what she actually wanted, but it still hacked me off...at that point I made a contract with half a page of terms and conditions....on paper I look like the toughest guy out there.....but the truth is I would help anyone out ....usually even if it is not our fault within reason of course...
These days I just wouldn't do it any other way....a signed contract with my terms printed on it is greAT INSULATION FROM potential legal woes...
my 2¢
Barry
------------------ Master's Touch Signs & Screenprinting Clinton AR 5017456246 ICQ 17430008 "Imagine the Possibilities..."
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
I don't specify any warranty per se. For painted work on trucks I'll do touch ups for however long they own the truck, no questions asked. I even go so far as to touch up trucks in for service without being asked. Now we are talking minor stuff here three or four minutes at the most on a truck, maybe eight or ten trucks a year. I just chalk it up to customer relations. Vinyl, now that's a sore subject You can't just "touch it up". If it fails you have to redo the entire job usually. If you are lucky the manufacturer replaces the vinyl, gee isn't that big of them. YOU have to spend YOUR time peeling off the crap and then redoing the entire job, talk about a loosing situation.
------------------ George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@ionictech.com
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
You can't just "touch it up". If it fails you have to redo the entire job usually. If you are lucky the manufacturer replaces the vinyl, gee isn't that big of them. YOU have to spend YOUR time peeling off the crap and then redoing the entire job, talk about a loosing situation.