The Letterville BullBoard: Price Quiz

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Posted by Steve Barba (Member # 431) on :

Hi all! I bid on this job yesterday and I am questioning myself today. When I submitted the bid, they pretty much told me that I won right away, so thats what makes me question if I am going to work for nothing on this job, lol.

14- 2 sided coroplast 24X18" w/ 7 different messages. (so basicly 7 different signs)

14- 2 sided coroplast 24X6" w/ directional arrows.
14- 2 sided coroplast 24X6" event signs.

Yellow coroplast w/blue copy.
(yellow coroplast .59 a sheet- 24X18)

Labor rate in western South Dakota- $30,
(I know, I know).

No stands- they have 14 real estate yard sign stand things.

The way I priced this mess was to put all the copy in to flexi to get the width and hieght, then priced out the vinyl by the foot, plus 25% of what I normally sell vinyl for, and then of course coroplast, shipping, labor, and a mark-up.

When I first started pricing this, I was getting anywhere from $550-600, and then I thought about it. ITS 14 COLOPLAST YARD SIGNS, WHO THE HELL WILL PAY THAT?

Anyway, have fun!

I'll post what I bid after I see the responses. I don't want to influence you. hehehe

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Steve Barba is the proud owner, president, & sole employee of Sturgis Sign Works.
"B0LT" on the chat room thing.
209 Oak Drive
Sturgis SD 57785
sbarba2616@dtgnet.com
605-720-7667

Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :

14 - 24x18 coroplast, D/F, one color, no logos... $24.57 each.

14 - 2 sided coroplast 24X6" w/ directional arrows...... $9.78 each.
14 - 2 sided coroplast 24X6" event signs......$9.78 each.

Using Oracal 651 vinyl.

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Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.
http://members.tripod.com/taylor_graphics
walldog@nc.rr.com

Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :

Hi Steve.
I don't price by the hour, because I am fast, and I wouldn't make any money if I charged that way.
My price comes up as this
38.88 for each dbl. sided corex 24x18 (with limited amount of copy) Total: 544.32 for 14 signs
12.96 for each dbl. sided corex 24x6 Total 362.88 for 28 signs
I would use intermediate vinyl always on corex. If these all had the same copy, you could have them silkscreened and charge a bit less if there were more of them to be ordered in the future.

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surf or MoJo on mirc
Cheryl J Nordby
Signs by Cheryl
(206) 300-0153
Seattle WA.....!
signsbycheryl@hotmail.com
A day without sunshine is like, you know...night http://signsbycheryl.homestead.com/home.html
http://mojosignco.homestead.com/home.html

From sharp minds come sharp products

Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :

I figured the 18x24's @$32, and the riders for $8 each. This totals $672. Depending on the market and whether I really need it determines the percentage of additional mark up, but that's a starting price. I would not go any below that.

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The SignShop
Mendocino, California
"Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"

Oh, for the faith of a spider! He begins his web without any thread.

Posted by VICTORGEORGIOU (Member # 474) on :

Real estate signs go cheap around here, so most of the orders go to the volume houses.

Glenn says 618, Rick says 678 that's a 10 per cent spread and I would say that's at or above the volume market down here. Vic G

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Victor Georgiou
Bob Loves Signs Inc
Danville, CA
email blssign@pacbell.net

Posted by Aladd (Member # 1996) on :

I'm right there with Glenn......
14 - 24x18 coroplast, D/F, one color, no logos... $25.00 each.
14 - 2 sided coroplast 24X6" w/ directional arrows...... $10.00 each.
14 - 2 sided coroplast 24X6" event signs......$10.00 each.For a total $630.00
Using Oracal 651 vinyl.

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Alan Ladd
Atlanta,Ga

Posted by Steve Barba (Member # 431) on :

Ok- I'm low. I priced em at $350 plus da tax, but in my defense, I know for a fact that I could'nt have got $600 for them here.

I will adjust my prices in the future though.

Cheryl- I wanted to go the printing route, but for 7 different signs, its too expensive.

Thanks

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Steve Barba is the proud owner, president, & sole employee of Sturgis Sign Works.
"B0LT" on the chat room thing.
209 Oak Drive
Sturgis SD 57785
sbarba2616@dtgnet.com
605-720-7667

Posted by Mark Smith (Member # 298) on :

quote:
in my defense, I know for a fact that I could'nt have got $600 for them here.

I hope I don't get flamed for this one, but I just can't help but jump in when I see a statement like this. Price is not about price, it's about attitude and relationship.

If you know what you're doing (and sound like it talking to your customer), and the customer gets the sense that the signs will make them money the same way they are making you money, and if the customer _knows in their heart_ that you will give them something valuable in exchange for their money, they will move heaven and earth to do business with you.

It is your attitude and your presentation that determine this "knowing" on the part of the customer.

Keep the faith -

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Mark Smith
Ampersand Signs & Design
EstiMate Sign Estimating Software
www.ampweb.com/estimate
1-888-304-3300
Hailing from beautiful Asheville, N.C.

Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :

I can't get those kinds of prices around here..... Most Sign Shops.

Did you ask for it?.... Butch Anton.

You won't get it if you don't ask for it..... Me.

Steve, I hope you won't take this as someone jumping on you, but rather someone encouraging you to not be afraid ask (and expect) to get paid what you and the work is worth. I used to be one of those who convinced himself that he "can't get those kinds of prices around here." How wrong I was. Now, its not uncommon for me to sell a 4x8 s/f for as much as $800. Like Mark said, its attitude and relationship.

These two things build credibility. And the more credible you become, the more you can charge.

Don't sell yourself short. When it comes to getting what we're worth, we can be our own worst enemy.

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Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.
http://members.tripod.com/taylor_graphics
walldog@nc.rr.com

[This message has been edited by Glenn Taylor (edited April 21, 2001).]

Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :

I did a quick calculation earlier and came up with a figure of $1100. I didn't post anything because I thought everyone would think I was crazy!

That was $1100 Cdn. though and that works out to about $750 U.S. so I guess I wan't too far off.

The thing that prompts me to post now is the comments about "asking" or "getting" the prices you deserve. I agree wholeheartedly!

Several years ago I was talking with Donna from B.C. and she mentioned the volume of business she was doing (in dollars) for a year. It amazed me! That conversation started me re-thinking my pricing. I also read the article that Bob Stephens wrote about pricing, shortly after talking to him in his shop while we were on vacation in Florida.

The bottom line is...nowadays I ask the "correct" price for my work..AND I get it. I have raised my prices regularly (probably totalling a 50-60% increase) over the last 4 years and have not lost ANY regular customers. I have probably lost a few "bids" for new customers but that doesn't bother me. At least I know that when I start a job I am going to earn the money I deserve for doing it. It has only taken me about 25 years of self employment to learn that "I am worth it!" I just wish I had been a "faster learner"!!!!!!

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Dave Grundy
AKA "applicator" on mIRC
"stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!"
in Granton, Ontario, Canada
1-519-225-2634
dave.grundy@quadro.net
www.quadro.net/~shirley

Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :

This is an issue I struggle with too, trying to stick to a cohesive pricing structure regardless of what your competition is doing.
I have purchased EstiMate and always have on hand pricing guidelines.
Here is a link that has some food for thought
http://members.aol.com/markrobts/page10.htm#freebies

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Wright Signs
Wyandotte, Michigan
Since 1978
http://www.wrightsigns.bigstep.com
All change isn't progress, and all progress isn't forward.

Posted by Tim Whitcher (Member # 685) on :

If you're fast, Cheryl, simply increase your shop rate. The faster I get, the more my rate increases. I find that pricing by my actual time on most jobs keeps me from screwing myself. (But if it still seems to cheap, I add more!)
My price was the same as Glen's. Spooky.

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Tim Whitcher
Quality Signs & Design
107 E Adrian St
Blissfield, MI 49228
qualitysigns@cass.net

Posted by Steve Barba (Member # 431) on :

In my defense again- I hang out at this site enough to know not to be afraid to bid what what a job is worth. I just have a hard time believing that those plastic crap yard signs go for that much. My 1st estimates were right on the money then.

Great responses everybody! Thanks again!

------------------
Steve Barba is the proud owner, president, & sole employee of Sturgis Sign Works.
"B0LT" on the chat room thing.
209 Oak Drive
Sturgis SD 57785
sbarba2616@dtgnet.com
605-720-7667

Posted by Bruce Evans (Member # 44) on :

Doing some rough math I figure I'd eat about 100 ft. of 24" 3mil vinyl. At. $70 a roll that would be about $47.00 worth of vinyl and $14.00 worth of transfer tape. We'll say $65.00 in vinyl/tape and I figure it'll take 3 sheets of 4x8' coroplast cut down at $10.00 a sheet. That would amount to roughly $100 in material. We mark up materials "AT LEAST" 3 times.

$300 for materials plus labor. I figure if you haul a$$ with minimal distractions you could pump them out in 4 hours plus another hour of laying them out in the computer. That's 5 hours at $65.00 per hour = $325.00

Total price $625.00 plus tax

I don't think you'd survive too long at $350.00

They may be crappy coroplast signs....but for another $45.00 in materials, you'd have trovicel pvc signs and an easy way to up sell.

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Bruce Evans

Posted by jimmy chatham (Member # 525) on :

why do people think that coroplast signs should be so cheap?
it takes the same amount of time and vinyl, application tape etc. to do a coroplast sign
as it would an aluminum sign.
there is about 3 or $4 difference between aluminum and coroplast so i sell 18x24 aluminum 2 sided for $40 and coroplast for $35

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Jimmy Chatham
Chatham Signs
164 Poplar Rd.
Commerce, Ga 30529
706-335-2348
Fax 706-335-3378
icq#11718273

Posted by Don Hulsey (Member # 128) on :

My question is... If you're not going to make money on it, do you really want to get the bid?

I do this type of work because I enjoy making signs, but I work to make a living.

Decide what it should cost them for you to make money for giving them what they want. Throw the price out there. If they want it bad enough they will pay that price. If not, move on to the next one.

I just can't understand the idea of lowering prices to get the job. It's NOT the JOB I'm after, it's the MONEY.

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Don Hulsey
Strokes by DON signs
Utica, KY
270-275-9552
sbdsigns@aol.com

I've always been crazy... but it's kept me from going insane.

Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :

Jimmy and Don have made very good points.
The difference in time and cost between various materials is minimal, so why lower the cheaper ones drastically because of the perceived value? I have gone over this on banners and mdo or aluminum signs. I have seen 4' by 8' banners in my market go for as little as $100 and the same shop will sell an
aluminum sign for more than twice that.They both take about the same amount of time, with some differnence in material costs, so why give away the banner?
If that's the case, I would obviously be in the alumimum sign market and let my competitors go broke on banners. I agree Don,
I am here to make a living, not to keep my sign skills sharp.
People always ask in casual conversation, are you busy? More to the point would be, are you making money?

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Wright Signs
Wyandotte, Michigan
Since 1978
http://www.wrightsigns.bigstep.com
All change isn't progress, and all progress isn't forward.

Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :

As to Jimmy's point about Coroplast and aluminum, its true that there are only a few dollars difference. But, when you get into any sort of volume, there is a huge difference in the eyes of the client - the difference in the bottom line.

As in my original post, the 14 24x18 coroplast signs would go for $24.57 each, or $343.98 total. With 0.040 aluminum, the price would be $29.66 each, or $415.24 total

If the signs are for extremely temporary, from the client's perspective, what's the point of spending and extra $71.26 that could be spent on something else.

Then there's our perspective - profit. Using Coroplast, I "net" $61.73. With aluminum, I "net" $93.68. A difference of $31.95.

I think in the end, I think its "what sells." Customers are very cost conscious (we're no different). Either way, I make a fairly decent profit.

------------------
Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.
http://members.tripod.com/taylor_graphics
walldog@nc.rr.com

Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :

I'm as tough a "price hawk" as anyone here, but the fact is, we all occasionally drop a price based on what we believe a customer will pay, for a job we think we'll make money on because it's quick or simple or uses "cheap" materials. That's one reason I avoid that kind of work - the customer has a low perceived value of the job because it's "temporary", and you end up not considering its value as advertising.

As Steve said, "I just didn't believe those crappy plastic yard signs were worth that much." If your customer believes they're not worth as much as you do, they'll go elsewhere. But if YOU don't believe they are worth as much as your customer does, you left money on the table.

But, like I said, we all do it from time to time... the difference is whether we do it ALL the time.

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"A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Raoul Duke (Hunter S. Thompson)

Cam
Finest Kind Signs
256 S. Broad St.
Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379
"Award winning Signs since 1988"

Posted by Kent Smith (Member # 251) on :

While the perception of quality of material can be a factor, the value of your time does not change. The net per hour after contribution to overhead must be the same no matter what you are doing. Simple work that gets done quickly dictates its own price as time is money. The small difference in subsrate cost should never be the determining factor in pricing. In years past we could add gold leaf to a handlettered door for very little effort differential and give the customer real value for the dollar spent. By the way, the price from QuikPrice came out to $1165 for this project.

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Kent Smith
Smith Sign Studio
Greeley, Colorado, USA
kent@smithsignstudio.com

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