The Letterville BullBoard: Help with straight lines

This is topic Help with straight lines in forum Old Archives at The Letterville BullBoard.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
http://www.letterville.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/13/2339.html

Posted by michaeld (Member # 2026) on :

What's the best way to get straight lines. Sounds simple, but I've had to go back twice now and now on my 3rd time! A customer has a design element where a straight line (1/2 in thick) runs accross all of the windows in the front of their office. The windows are about 5-6ft in width. There are 6 of them. I have the vinyl masked and taped to the window using a center hinge method, but when I start squeegeeing it doesn't follow a straight line. I'm using pieces if tape at the edge of the mask in several spots to align the transfer tape when squeegeeing- but it still comes out crooked. My lines go up and down, tail off, etc... Help, I need to go back tomorrow

Thanks all! Michael D.

------------------

Posted by Kevin Landry (Member # 1352) on :

Hi

Try marking a spots with a marker on the window all the way around where you want the top of your line to fit. You really don't need to mask. Cut your vinyl a little long so it overlaps the window frame. Starting on one end, lay the edge of the vinyl on the frame lining it up with your marks and remove the backing as you go along. If you have two people remove the backing, spray with rapid prep and lay the sucker on the window and line up. No need for mask. the excess is to hold on to. the only problem you may have is stretching the vinyl. Keep it tight but don't stretch. Cut off excess. Repeat for each stripe until you are done. At least that is how Lynn and I do it. It works.

Kevin Landry
KnL Signs
Halifax NS

------------------

Posted by Brian Keence (Member # 1867) on :

Try hinging from the top. Make one long hinge all the way across. You could also try leaving a wider carrier behind the vinyl, thus a wider mask to help remain more stable.

HTH

------------------
Brian Keence
K&B Signs
2220 Lake Tekawitha Rd
Pacific, MO. 63069
(636) 257-3679
brian@kbsigns.com
********************
It's clear as mud now!

Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :

I usually do it just like Kevin does, without taping. Sometimes, I put it on dry.

If you put it on wet:

Put your marks about a foot to 18 inches apart.

Anchor the end of the stripe at the first mark.

Holding the rolled up vinyl in one hand, align it with the second mark and so on pressing it down at the mark lightly with your finger.

Before you squeegee it down, run your finger down the center of the stripe along the whole length (i do this with wider stripes. This will keep it from slipping out of place when you sqeegee it.

You could also try cutting the stripe in the middle of a wider strip of vinyl. Don't weed it but leave the vinyl aroudnd the stripe and expose the ends so you can align it after the app. tape is put on it. apply your tape, align it on the substrate, squeege it down along the center part where the stripe is, pull your app. tape off and remove the excees vinyl before it cures.

This method will waste about 3 times as much vinyl but it will give you a straight line.

Oh yeah, and hinge it at the top. squeegee from the top/middle down and outwards.

hope this helps

------------------
"autograph your work with excellence"

Wayne Webb
Webb Sign Studio
Chipley, FL
850.638.9329
webbsignstudio@digitalexp.com

[This message has been edited by Wayne Webb (edited March 22, 2001).]

Posted by Robert Graham (Member # 1167) on :

I like to first tape a piece of material, maybe several inches in width, to a position that will be one of the edges of my narrow stripe for the full length. I'll use a wider width because it will hold its alignment better and less chance to sag. Then I'll use a safe-release paper tape, available at most hardware and paint stores, and place it along the edge of my guide material which will correspond with one edge of where my permanate narrow stripe will go. When it is in place I will remove the wider material. Now there is a nice straight guide to butt the edge of my narrow stripe against and it is nice and firm. It is very similar to Kevin's method with the dots. And I agree premask is not necessary and like he says just start at one end and work to the other and just let the edge next to the paper tape fall in first. It just takes a little hand- eye co-odination. Or, if you use the liquid, it gives you an edge to slide your tape up next to. (Be careful though, the paper tape isn't waterproof.)I have used this method for years on vehicles and have had good success in long straight lines. The paper tape removes easily with no residue to clean up. I use a roller rather than a squeege. Hope this helps. Let us all know how you come out.

------------------
Robert Graham
Grahamsville Signs
1120 E McReavy Road
Union, Washington 98592
360-898-2260
Fax 360-898-2262
e-mail:gvs@hctc.com

Posted by Brian Stoddard (Member # 39) on :

no need to tape. Make your marks on all of the windows and the centers of each. Remove the backing on one stripe and stick about an inch to one end and then carefully stretch the other end PAST the other edge and stick it to the window frame so that it is probably 1/2" or so from the glass. Now you can make sure you are straight (check the middle mark) and use you thumb and stick her to the glass. laying down tape or vinyl lines takes a little practice, even though you are lined up on both ends, moving your wrist around changes the "bow" in the middle. This is pretty quick when you get the hang of it and if its not too cold you will have so ability to lift and replace if you mess up. Take extras!

------------------
Brian Stoddard
Expressions Signs
A few puddles east of Seattle

Posted by Terry Bull Sign & Custom (Member # 1876) on :

How about laying on a thicker stripe say an
inch thick then cutting with a steel yard stick down to the final size -just a thought

------------------
Terry Bull
Sign & Custom
12 Cresthill Avenue
Grays Essex RM17 5UJ
England
http://www.wagonsforwalls.co.uk
http://www.signandcustom.co.uk

Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :

A way I use and it work REALLY well for curves surfaces like sailboats, and would be dead easy for a window is as follows.

Take your measurements and mark with a stabilo or china marker. Run a strip of masking tape using the marks as guiodes. Masking tape is inexpensive and it can be repositioned as you work along. Once you are satisfied the the masking tape is straight it is a simple matter to lay down the vinyl stripe using the edge of the masking tape as a "ledge" to guide you. I always apply stripes like that with my head almost up agaist the surface and with my arms extended out. That way I am looking along the surface, not at it.

------------------
Dave Grundy
AKA "applicator" on mIRC
"stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!"
in Granton, Ontario, Canada
1-519-225-2634
dave.grundy@quadro.net
www.quadro.net/~shirley

Posted by michaeld (Member # 2026) on :

Thanks so much everyone! Not sure which technique I'm going to use. ALL seem a lot better that what I'm doing now... I'll post tomorrow and let you know how it went. And thanks again for the insight.

Michael

------------------

Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :

Kevin
I hate to disagree with you...

But using a application fluid to conform a straight line doesn't work.
(Sorry Roger)

You place it down and then try to Squeegee it into place only makes it worse.

Using a Marker on the window will only contaminate the adhesives.
Something in that width sould be done with Auto Tapes...Dry on Dry surface!
But if you cut off the mahince then use a clear transmask as it is stiff enough to lay down without stretching.
"My Mad Man's" application is to mark the two ends and the middle with a Stabilo pencil..
Not to much but enough to see under the clear tape and also the middle.
Tape one end down and peal and pull the tape across the window to the other end.
Thumb print it into place..
Never push the tape into place as you go along as this makes the waves in it!!!
But a lite tap on top of it in different areas helps keep it in a straight line.

Try in half and than in the quarters and in the eights.
Now a very light plam press across the vinyl.
If you didn't get it right..Then it's easy to pick up and try again....
But if you got it down the way you like it then work it down with the felt side of your gold card and then with the hard side of it!!!!

Terry....
I do the same thing.
If you do get a small amount of wave then use the STEEL EDGE RULER and cheat and trim....

------------------
Raven/2001
Airbrushed by Raven
Lower Sackville N.S.
deveausdiscovery@sprint.ca

Posted by Jerry Mathel (Member # 526) on :

I learned a trick just the other day from Joey Madden on making perfectly straight lines.

Stick you tape down at one end, then pull it taut at the other end, then press that end down. NOW THE IMPORTANT PART!!!!! Go back down the line and press the tape down about every foot or so. Then and only then run your thumb the length of the tape.

Finesse makes a great tape for this purpose, (Edge) check it out at their website at www.finessepinstriping.com

------------------
Jerry Mathel
Jerry Mathel Signs
Grants Pass, Oregon
signs@grantspass.com

Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :

Yup Jerry
I think thats what I said!
for a size of 1/2" use Auto Tape with the clear laminated tranfer tape....
Touch press it in Half and then Quarters and Eighths....

------------------
Raven/2001
Airbrushed by Raven
Lower Sackville N.S.
deveausdiscovery@sprint.ca

Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :

I keep plenty of scraps around for this type of thing. I use a rule sometimes, and sometimes I cut it on the plotter. After that, I do just what Jerry and Joey do. It always works and I always do it dry. Using tape and the center hinge will sometimes do what you are experiencing. Try what they said and I am sure you will be happy.

------------------
John Deaton III
Deaton Design
109 N. Cumberland Ave.,Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-573-9101

john@deatondesigns.com
www.deatondesigns.com

Posted by Kevin Landry (Member # 1352) on :

Thanks Steven

The last time we did a job like this it was about a year ago. I never thought of using auto striping. That stuff is a little stiffer and comes with a release liner that doesn't overlap the edges making it easier to line up.

Kevin Landry
KnL Signs
Halifax NS

------------------

Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :

i keep rolls of 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, blck, white, red , blue...put it on just like pinstriping tape...put one end down, roll out about halfway, stretch it and stick it then go from there to end...then come back a nd squeeqe it all down...

------------------
joe pribish-A SIGN MINT
2811 longleaf Dr.
pensacola, fl 32526
850-944-5060
BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND

Posted by michaeld (Member # 2026) on :

Well I don't have to back again! The technique I used was dry. It was a combo of some of the posts above. I basically marked three spots on the wondow, left, right and center. I did not use pre mask. I tacked down on one end and pulled the tape accross the width of the window aligning it with the right-most mark while keeping an eye on the center mark. I had to pull up and reposition may times to get it fairly straight. I think the biggest problem was the fact that the tape would bow in the middle (ie- the vinyl sort-of made a "U" shape down the middle and would tack when it got too close to the window). I'm sure it would have been much easier if the distance wasn' so great. I tried lightly pressing at each of my marks and aligning in "sections", but it really never worked. I guess that striping vinyl tape has a clear mask in it to avoid what was happening to me (tape making a "U" shape when pulled across a distance...?).

I'm just curious as to how someone would rate the difficulty of this job since I'm, fairly new to the business. Beacuse it was difficult! Thanks again all. Great to be a part of the community

------------------

Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :

Truthfully Michael, I wouldn't rate the degree of dificulty as being very high on that job. But, we all had to start somewhere and I know that the first stripes I laid down had some wobbles in them too!

Just keep plugging away and it will become second nature to you soon enough.

Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :

Good Answer Dave
It is not a job to rate as the other parts are more important...
Michaeld you'll get the hang of it (LOL)in years of practice it will be the second nature to you work....

------------------
Raven/2001
Airbrushed by Raven
Lower Sackville N.S.
deveausdiscovery@sprint.ca

Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :

If this stuff was easy everybody'd be doin it! LOL

------------------
Don Coplen aka "SaintPete"
Coplen Designs
St.Petersburg, FL dcoplen@mindspring.com

Posted by Pierre St.Marie (Member # 1462) on :

Jerry, Joey and Brian are exactly right. My daughter lays 1/2", 2" and even 6" striping on semi trailers and pulls 20' at a time with 2" and 10'or more at a time with 6". With all of them it's the same pull technique. Tag down the first couple of inches and then PULL.............PULL it! Stretch it! Don't even LOOK at the middle! The premask won't let it thin on you except with too much pull on 1/4" and smaller. The only marks you need are the distance fron the top or bottom to where the stripe begins and ends.

With anything up to 1", use your thumb to seat it. The very act of stretching it keeps it taught and tight wihle you seat it. With 1.5" and wider you use a squeegee. Up to 2" you go dead down the center. If it begins to gather ahead of you, stop and squeegee that short section both up and down from the center, then continue on. With 4", 6" etc. you use a forward and up sweeping action, and a forward and down sweeping action. You NEVER use a wet mount on anything smaller than 2". In our entire history of semis and large boat hulls we've NEVER used a wet mount on pulled stripes. It simply isn't necessary. If you have any questions, feel free to call our toll free number and ask for Rosemary. She grew up with vinyl film striping............literally!

I should add, go into our website and look at the Vinyl graphics page. Those are all Rosemary's. Just a few of the hundreds she's done over the years. All DRY!

------------------
St.Marie Graphics
& Makin' Tracks Sound Studio
Kalispell, Montana
stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com
800 735-8026
We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)

[

[This message has been edited by pierre (edited March 24, 2001).]

Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :

Pierre..I have to disagree with your assertion that you can pull as hard as you want on vinyl to keep it straight. Sure, the wider stuff won't "thin out" on you but believe me, it WILL "shrink back" in it's length if pulled too taut. Been there and done that. Not doin it again!

In fact, if you read the instructions on the packaging for automotive striping, it SPECIFICALLY states that you should NOT pull too hard on the material.

And that comes from well over 25 years years of experience applying vinyl striping to vehicles, even before being involved in the signmaking business.
------------------
Dave Grundy
AKA "applicator" on mIRC
"stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!"
in Granton, Ontario, Canada
1-519-225-2634
dave.grundy@quadro.net
www.quadro.net/~shirley

[This message has been edited by Dave Grundy (edited March 24, 2001).]

Posted by Pierre St.Marie (Member # 1462) on :

Overzealous, by a tiny bit, BUT you CAN pull it as much as 10% of it's own length. That's laboratory info. As for "memory", the three top Premiums' memory releases with heat. Also Laboratory test stuff from CALON back in the early 80's.

BTW......You shouldn't have tossed out 25 years cuz' I gotcha beat by 10, AND was the R&D installation tech for Arlon for 5 years. :^)
------------------
St.Marie Graphics
& Makin' Tracks Sound Studio
Kalispell, Montana
stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com
800 735-8026
We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)

[This message has been edited by pierre (edited March 24, 2001).]

Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :

Well Pierre..I know that you and your daughter are far more experienced than I am...I have only been doing this since 1971!

But I do believe in reading instructions... and here they are, scanned from the back side of a Prostripe (Spartan) package.

You folks can continue doing it the right way and I'll continue doing it the way the manufacturer suggests!

[This message has been edited by Dave Grundy (edited March 24, 2001).]

Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :

OK....chalk up vinyl stripes as another topic we can't talk about without gettin into a pissin contest

anybody like apple pie? maybe we can talk about apple pie sometime. maybe not

------------------
Don Coplen aka "SaintPete"
Coplen Designs
St.Petersburg, FL dcoplen@mindspring.com

Posted by Pierre St.Marie (Member # 1462) on :

Ok then..........where's my Pie??

Davey, advice is free. You can throw it away or use it. I wouldn't get into a P!$$!) contest with you anyway. I'm too old for that crap. My daughter would probably love it! She's still full of vinegar. Sorry you feel this way. Experience doesn't mean much when you're caught up in your own schtuff. Take your time, read the box, hang it the way that makes you feel comfortable.

Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :

Don
I don't think this is a Pizzing contest!
Just everyones Insight or Views on how they do it....
Someone will learn something from this post and that being Michaeld...
Or others for that fact on different Does and Don't.
Smiles everybody The Plane! The Plane!

------------------
Raven/2001
Airbrushed by Raven
Lower Sackville N.S.
deveausdiscovery@sprint.ca

Posted by Pierre St.Marie (Member # 1462) on :

Thanks, Stephen. It's true. Credentials certainly do matter, but it doesn't mean that there aren't many other ways to accomplish the same end result. Our operation has NEVER been given to following directions. If you believe everything a MFG tells you, you'll NEVER strike out in new directions. Look at this Pelucid crap. We got nothing but resistance to new applications when we spoke to the MFG., so we just struck out on our own to find out what worked. Now THEY listen to us! I would never steer anyone wrong on film application. Our methods aren't just guesses. They're proven, DESPITE what any MFG says about it. The MFG labs don't go out into the field to install..........but Arlon hired me to find out what works and what didn't work. In the 5 years with them I changed their entire market direction. By record, exactly 2,852 installers attended my seminars and subsequent calsses on vinyl film installation in the time I was there. When I left to go back home, the program died, but by that time there were a LOT of knowledgeable installers out there. Anyway.........we can learn from each other if we're not paranoid about Pizzin Contests. They only become that when it becomes the main thread and the learning and sharing stops. BTW........read that box carefully. ANY experienced striper will recognize the error in the described sequence. Ask the experienced automotive guys.

Posted by Aladd (Member # 1996) on :

password test

------------------
Alan Ladd
Atlanta,Ga

Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :

Anything 1' or less, I would lay dry too !!
The method described by Jerry and Joey is the "most precise".

I striped so many cars and trucks(for 20 odd years)with tape, pulling the full length of a vehicle(if stripe was really straight)at one try, if surface was contoured(as well as stripe) you pull one "panel" at a time.

The small width tapes are not going to give you a problem with sticking or bubbling(if you first clean) with Rapid Tac product and CHEAP paper towell !!

Roger

------------------
Roger Bailey
Rapid Tac Incorporated
Waikoloa, Hawaii

UBB.classic™ 6.7.2