The Letterville BullBoard: SIGNFOAM QUESTION...

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Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :

Well..."Ole never use anything but redwood Monte" has a sign foam sign in the shop that needs to be repainted...there are some pretty good (bad) nicks in it and I'd like to get them filled and sanded the best way possible ...so how about it, anyone got an opinion on the best most efficient way to deal with this problem...Incidently whats the best primer (in your opinion)?

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Monte Jumper
SIGNLanguage/Norman.Okla.

Posted by Kathy Joiner (Member # 1814) on :

Jay Cookes is a really good primer, but in my opinion any good quality primer from your local bldg supply will do well. You can use wood filler(exterior of course) or an auto body filler. Sign foam reccomends the automotive filler with the glass in it. Sign Foam is so easy to deal with I'll bet you get hooked on it!

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Kathy Joiner
River Road Graphics
41628 River Road
Ponchatoula, La.70454
PH. (504)386-3313
casey@i-55.com

Old enough to know better...Too young to resist.

Posted by Joe Endicott (Member # 628) on :

We have had good luck using Bondo to fill gaps. As far as primer, we have used Ronan Quick-Dry Block-out White, but if it's going to be painted entirely in latex, we just use several coats of quality exterior Porter 500 series. light sand between coats.

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Joe Endicott
Graphic Arts
Gulf Breeze, FL
joesign1@bellsouth.net

Posted by Kent Smith (Member # 251) on :

I worked on the development of the Chromatic High Build waterborne primer so I am partial to it. I fills porosity as well as some scratches. Lightly wet buff sand with 600 grit and it will get as smoothas glass. I have used automotive spot putty for nicks etc. prior to priming. The high build is like universal and any finish paint will adhere nicely to it.

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Kent Smith
Smith Sign Studio
Greeley, Colorado, USA
kent@smithsignstudio.com

Posted by Justin Booher (Member # 792) on :

Hey Monte!

I dropped a small foam sign the other day on accident. The dent was about the size of a AAA Battery. I just put layers of exterior wood putty & sanded. I also heard that bondo works well too! As far as a primer, I use Bear Exterior primer. (Bear offers a lifetime warranty on most of their paints!) It seems to have a great consistancy. (not to thick, not to thin)

I will be sending pics of that sandblasted sign you helped me out with. The 3-d foam ducks turned out great. Boy does a 3-d element really bring the sign to life.

over & out,

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Justin Booher
Vital Signs, Inc.
Edmond, OK 405/348-7227
"Custom Hand Crafted Signage!"

Posted by Joe Scienski (Member # 1701) on :

Monte,

It looks like you have gotten lots of good advice. Whenever you repair Sign•Foam you'll want to watch for "shinners". These come from any variation in surface texture, and can be avoided by spot primming the damaged area before any filler is added. Sounds like your on you way, let us know if you run into troubles.

Joe

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Thanks, Joe
Sign•FoamII
Dana Point, CA, USA

Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :

I've used the two part epoxy putty that you get in a tube that has both parts together - just cut off a dab and work the two parts together. It will set up quickly. Before it gets rock hard, just trim away the excess with a chisel, then sand when dry.

I use both Jay Cooke and Chromatic High Build Primer. Some folks (namely Gary Anderson) do not use any primer - just water based paints. Normally I prime the panel, apply the resist, blast and then paint. Where the foam is blasted I don't use any primer - just paint with whatever latex paint I'm using. Since the blasted area is rough anyway, I'm not trying to get a glass smooth finish. On the smooth areas that are already primed I will put another two or three coats of latex to get a nice, smooth finish.

It's amazing how tough the foam becomes with several coats of paint. It will stand some abuse, but not a great deal. But, redwood was also prone to denting if you bumped it good.

Sorry that I missed you at Fred's. I was in Charlotte the week before and there was just too much to catch up on to make it. Both time wise and money wise. I'm anxious to see Fred and Marilyn's need shop. I'll try for next year.

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Chapman Sign Studio
Temple, Texas
rchapman@vvm.com

Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :

The only problem I have with any of the responses posted here, are that the fillers mentioned are harder than the foam.

When you sand, the filler will sand at a different rate than the foam. Causing imperfections in the final result.

Especially Bondo. And if you put bondo over Gorilla glue, your in for the ride of your life.

If the dent is a good size one I will cut a piece of foam to fill the void and then fill and skim coat with a product made by precision board for skim coating their foam.

( I can get the numbers off the can if interested ) I just don't remember the name right now.

I don't use any high build primers because I don't like the texture or the results. I do use chromatic metal wood primer and have had no problem.

Good luck and try some test peices first, results will vary

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Bob Rochon
Creative Signworks
Millbury, MA
bob@creativesignworks.com

"Some people's kids"

Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :

While at a demonstration on carving SignFoam, it was recommended to mix "signfoam dust" and Gorilla Glue together into a paste. Tnen, push it into the dent. A piece of tape as placed over the repair to prevent the glue mixture from foaming up too much. After the mixture dried, the tape was removed and the repair sanded and primed.

I've tried it and have had good success with it.

Just a thought.

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Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.
http://members.tripod.com/taylor_graphics
walldog@nc.rr.com

[This message has been edited by Glenn Taylor (edited March 20, 2001).]

Posted by Jack Davis (Member # 1408) on :

Marty, If I were doing a dent repair, I would gig down to fresh foam and then use a good body filler, is it is more of a compatible material than wood filler. Wait for a good cure 2 to 3 days before leveling the the surface or expect extra shrinkage. It shouldn't be to severe. Assuming that the repair job is over another paint job, you shouldn't need primer exept on the repaired spots. In that case rustoleum has a fair primer in a can, and I would just spot the repaired areas. Priming between paint jobs is not always a good idea, where you can avoid it.......

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Jack Davis
1410 Main St
Joplin, MO 64801

Posted by Mayo Pardo (Member # 138) on :

Before I went to Australia I made a foam sign.
It was a little elaborate and I was going to gold leaf some parts of it so I thought, get it as smooth as possible beforehand.

Necessity is the mother of invention only this time mother turned out to be more like "mommy dearest".

Not having any high build primers or any bondo kind of stuff at hand (It was shortly after I had closed my shop) I used what I did have. Spackle! The spackling paste was water based and went on great. Smoothed out and sanded slick as glass.

When I removed my masking after sandblasting this, it took everything with it, right down to bare foam in many places. The spackling prevented everything else from bonding to the foam.

"Don't use spackle" is one of the lessons that falls into the same category as "always scuff pre-painted aluminum"

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EmpY® is also known as Mayo Pardo. Has wandererd Australia, currently in Elgin IL. Soon to be cutting stuff on my router table.
847 931-4171

I also refill inkjet cartridges for people (someone's gotta do it) http://www.difsupply.com

Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :

Hi Heads,

I never liked the texture I got using high build primers either.

I don't even prime Sign Foam. I just use the finish paint, then a Pelucid clear coat.

Does anybody use automotive paint on signfoam? I was going to try it on a test square and see if it would work without a primer.

The important thing with uretahne is getting rid of all the dust, which will cause the paint to flake. If you dont have an air compressor to blow all the dust off, then take the piece to a car wash and blast it clean with the pressure wash. And you probably should make sure they guy before you didn't use the wax! Let the water run a bit to get the wax out of the hose.

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Draper The Signmaker
Bloomington Illinois USA
Be Sure to Check Out My Next Article On "Sign Shop Photography" in the March Issue of Sign Builder Illustrated!
309-828-7110
drapersigns@hotmail.com Draper_Dave on mIRC chat

Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :

Good idea Glen, I make wood filler the same way;
sawdust from what I'm workin with and some Elmers, mix it up, spread, sand, colors are very close for staining.

Roger

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Roger Bailey
Rapid Tac Incorporated
Waikoloa, Hawaii

Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :

Monte,

I believe Glenn & Roger may have the right answer here. I have heard of mixing the dust of the foam with a glue but have never tried it. I always wondered of the holding power and sanding ability of Elmer's glue. ( Roger already said he had great results )

Gorilla Glue does sand nice and at a comparable rate to the foam, also you can shave the gorilla glue down close to the sign face then sand from there.

I still wonder why I use foam for this same reason. I hate repairing it.

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Bob Rochon
Creative Signworks
Millbury, MA
bob@creativesignworks.com

"Some people's kids"

Posted by Steve Purcell (Member # 1140) on :

1- Mill an MDO block 4.5"x12", chamfer the edges slightly & attach a handle to it.

2- Contact cement a half sheet of 80-120 grit sandpaper to the block.

3- Use a good styrene filler (not too much kicker) to fill the dents.

4- At about 80% cure, lightly sand the patch level with the sign surface, let cure & finish as usual.

I used the poly/dust routine for awhile but this method is faster and eliminates "shiny spots" & bumps.

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Purcell Woodcarving & Signmaking
spurcell99@mediaone.net
Cape Cod, MA

Posted by Lex (Member # 1953) on :

we use all automotive fillers and paint on signfoam. Its a nice selling point that the finish will hold up as long if not longer than on a car. We fill, sand, use Marhide high build primer (I think) wet sand and mathews paint. Dave is right you need a compressor to blow the dust off. Thats why we wet sand.
Raychel
Lexington Signs

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Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :

I feel that a pressuer washer may be a little over kill, but not much. I too was having paint lift off SignFoam even with using the compressor to blow the dust off. As a test one day, I sanded & vacummed the SignFoam, then blew it off good with the compressor. That's as far as I used to go. Then I took the panel outside, and used the garden hose with the handle sprayer that goes from mist to hard stream. I propped up the SignFoam at one end with a milk crate and started spraying it back and forth working from the high side toward the ground. My black topped parking lot had a river of SignFoam dust on it. Since I started washing it down, no more paint lifting.

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Dave Sherby
"Sandman"
SherWood Sign & Graphic Design
Crystal Falls, MI 49920
906-875-6201
ICQ: 21604027
sherwood@up.net

Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :

Thanx for all the info... the best part is I now know why I like redwood...I don't remember ever washing a redwood sign before I painted it...I bought the special whoopdedoo
primer/filler made especially for the sign foam...I'll let you know how it worked out.

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Monte Jumper
SIGNLanguage/Norman.Okla.

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