The Letterville BullBoard: CRAP another SCHOOL SHOOTING

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Posted by TBUK (Member # 443) on :

While installing a sign across from Santee High School,,, a whail of police, students, and medical help.....ANOTHER school shooting..ONLY THIS TIME it is in MY back yard....2 DEAD,,, 15 wounded kids and adults... should we turn in our guns... PHUCK NO,,,it a shame,,, its a crime,,, it's our socitity that needs HELP..Twain,TBuk..

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Ted Bukovscak
BUKOVSCAK SIGNS
S/California
tbuk@nethere.com

Posted by Jim Upchurch (Member # 209) on :

I'm amazed that it doesn't happen more frequently.

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Artworks
Olympia WA

Posted by LazyEdna (Member # 266) on :

I will never understand the absolute blind love for guns that permeates this culture.
I will never understand why people worry about their guns when their civil rights are eroded by a specious "war on drugs" that has eliminated due process and not a peep is heard from the noisy rabble.
LE

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LazyEdna
in RL known as Sara Straw
from southern Utah
5 National Parks within 3 hours drive
Red Rock Heaven

Posted by Jim Upchurch (Member # 209) on :

The problem isn't guns. The problem is a society that is unwilling to face it's problem's honestly. Hollywood glorifies immorality, especially violence and then cries out for gun control as if that were the problem. It is illegal to kill people, violating a gun law would be of little concern to a murderer. There are alot of third world countries that have guns all over the place but not the violence. We won't
see a change until we recognize that morality is the problem, not inanimate objects.

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Artworks
Olympia WA

Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :

LE as usual gets it wrong on guns. No love affair with them though. As for the war on drugs, I agree; it is killing what is left of our civil rights.

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Wright Signs
Wyandotte, Michigan
Since 1978
http://www.wrightsigns.bigstep.com

Posted by The Moon (Member # 452) on :

Never has the "world news" been so important to me... until now. I do see that I had been self-centered being that way, but I was 'removed' so to speak before. Never really knew anyone outside of California... never BEEN outside of California for that matter, really... and I just didn't make it "personal" when the news came on about things around the globe. "I was too busy with my little life here in California and wrapped up with my imediate family." to really watch the news.

Since I have joined the Letterhead movement and adopted many memebers of the Bullboard as my family I literally stop in my tracks when "big news" comes on the boob-tube now.

This shooting came on the local news this morning as a "we interupt local programing to bring you this..." and when they start with that line I know it's "serious" (except in California when there's a white Bronco involved). The location of the shooting was mentioned- San Diego - and I instanlty thought of Ted.

I know Ted doesn't go to High School anymore, but his post above supports my thoughts... HE WAS ACROSS THE STREET!

When I heard that New York was getting more snow I instantly wanted to mail Michael Boone an automatic snow shovel... you know the kind with a Briggs and Stratton motor just below the handle? What? Only Dad has one of those?!

When I heard that the southern/eastern states were getting more than there share of falling water again I instanly thought of Glenn and wanted to ship him my collection of 5 gallon buckets and a sump pump and bags of sand...

When I heard the Aussies were getting our "Survivors" I wanted to send them ALL a sympathy card. (Op! before you do it...relax! If you like the show ignor this joke and move on to the next... I'm sure I'll tell one later that you'll like. )

My point is... what is my point? Oh, that this Board has become a pain in my butt- now I have to pay attention to the news to make sure my family is ok, I have to watch what I say because I hate pissing off the people I like (getting a rise outta of them yea, but making 'em realllllly mad, no), and now I care about what happens in the world because I KNOW people there... I LOVE every minute of it!

I'm glad to hear you're ok Ted! It's sad to hear the kids there are having to deal with another urban war. I can just hope for the best for them through this one.

The watch it I'm getting soft and growing up side of the Moon

Disclaimer: For those of you in a bad mood today reading this post... my message is that I like ya all and I think of you when the news has something on about your area. I threw in a few jokes and lite hearted humor to lighten the mushy deep feelings a bit. Why can't I JUST SAY THAT? Because I will ALWAYS be the rambling side of the Moon...

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The Moon
aka: Stefenie Harris
Moonlight Designs
Pollock Pines, CA
learnin' somethin' new every day!

Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :

Thanks for the bucket, Stephenie!

As for the shooting, I think there are some things that most people are not aware of. First, school shooting have been on a downward slide for several decades. The shootings have become rare enough to the point that it does become a sensationalized media event. I know from experience that TV tends to magnify our perception of events. Secondly, outlawing gun ownership, as it has been done in other countries and the District of Columbia, does not reduce the crime rate. Cocaine and pot have been outlawed for years, but the problem is still pervasive. Now the Left wants us to outlaw guns and legalize drugs. If outlawing drugs hasn't worked, what makes anyone think outlawing guns is going to accomplish anything?

The problem is the heart. I realize that most don't want to hear it, but "morality" is the key. We have got to teach the generations after us that things are more "black and white" than we realize. There are is a "right" and a "wrong".

IMHO, as long as we continue with this "if it feels good - do it" attitude, we will reap what we sew and deserve everything we get because of it.

(OK, I'm off my soapbox now)

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Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :

I don't grasp for straws....
Either bring up your child with guidence or let society handle them, either way is fine with me....
When government interferes with bringing up your children something needs fixing. If you find that the problem is in guns, what if the students were killed with knives, would you ban table utensils?
Maybe some should be looking at them selves and the way they have been brought up and the way they bring up their own rather then put the blame somewhere else.

If taxes and rents are too high then maybe persons should think about using a condom instead of looking to raise a child.
I don't give a sh-t if you think my post is too hard on persons who don't look after their own siblings because of the time they have to spend with them.
Some persons should just have their tubes tied until they themselves have grown up.

Lets get on with this sign BB.........

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HotLines Joey Madden
Pinstriper and designer of the Inflite'
See it go to work http://www.killerkoncepts.com
learning capabilities http://www.members.tripod.com/Inflite

Posted by Deb Fowler (Member # 1039) on :

The war on drugs is hopeless until we get a grip on the truth.
Do any of you know (please ask yourselves) how much influence the pharmaceutical companies, such as Johnson & Johnson have over the Food and Drug Administration? Do any of you know why our children are overdosed with ritalin? our families with prednisone and elavil ( a psychotic drug?).
There are massive side effects especially with all of the antibiotics being handed out like candy. Even the doctors are finding out that they aren't working anymore. The strains are getting more resistant. Our immune systems are weakening with overuse of them.
If a child misbehaves one too many times or is highly allergic to food dyes and sulfates, how would you know? Your doctor writes out a scrip for ritalin? What is that new fangled drug for depression?
I have helped 10 families get their children off ritalin with the help from a pediatrician-allergy specialist in Fla, in the year 1979. Sure, it was a lot of work, but it was with diet only, and behavior modification, minorly.
I have seen reports of amputations because of the drug ritalin being misused. Don't you think it has to involve the nervous system?
The medical establishment is not all bad, I will not badmouth them, but they have not taken any courses to speak of in nutrition. Even my mother who was a psychiatric nurse told me that they lacked any formal training in med school of nutrition! Maybe a couple hours of the standard diet, that's it.
She was seeing vitamin therapy coming into the picture with psychiatric patients (the use of massive doses of vitamin B for schizopherenia with positive results in the 80's. It was new but it was working. However, we never are permitted to hear a doctor prescribe a diet to help a condition, really, or a vitamin unless it be the last ten years. They were not allowed and still aren't allowed to tell what it is good for!
But don't worry! They can write up a scrip for ritalin for a three year old and a school age child and if the parents don't agree with the medication, the children's services can charge the parents with neglect and force them to make that child take it!

USA TODAY (Monday, September 25, 2000) states:
"The FDA reveals when financial conflicts exist, but it has kept details secret since 1992, so it is not possible to determine the amount of money or the drug company involved."

"These pharmaceutical experts, abou 300 on 18 adviswory committees, make decisions that affect the health of millions o Americans and billions of dollars n drug sales. With few exceptions, the FDA follows the committees' advice."
There is much more but if you want some of the documents, email to me your snail mail and I will get some of these sent to you as soon as I can. I have plenty from a friend who I have worked with for 21 years.
He makes more and more sense to me every year. At first, it was horse nutrition, but he wants people to know the truths and have access to the info. How else are we going to form our opinions and help our society???
I just felt I had to say something.I don't want a fight on the BB, just help to help the kids and our society do the right thing. The answer is not always medication.

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Deb
Creative Signs

Posted by TBUK (Member # 443) on :

LE, In rebuttal,. I do not Love, My guns, nor do I Love my hammer, nor my plotter, nor my sander,,, By now you have an idea where I stand on "the Issues" of gun control.....

I live In a peaceful neighborhood,, but I work from the Mexican border to the out scrits of LA,,, In many situations I am called upon to Install a sign on an empty building,,, I must enter the building to get "roof excess" MANY times these buildings are NOT empty''''''

With-in the confines of the walls hidden from society, in a few cases"" are the vermin of life''' the unfortunate, the Misfortunate, and the dogs of darkness,,, ...

9 years ago I as a license contractor applied and receive a license to carry a concealed weapon,,, There is NOTHING cute about a pissed off crack head'''' or a desperate human who needs what he thinks you have''.

These people understand one language,,,"" TOUGH ABSOLUTE""...

In the Army they taught us to respect our weapons,,,for they were LIFE''',,,

I have seen the ABUSE'' of this and I have seen the end results of the meek"""

I understand YOUR position... and respect it,,,

I am a responsible person,, who would Kill,, if needed''' I do not boost to this fact,, I am not proud of this fact... I LIVE this fact...

Joey is right it is NOT the Guns", I would think little of bludgeoning anyone who threaten ME or Mine''''

I was brought up Righteous"" a catholic and Baptist,, I study Yoga, and Judas""

Where I go fishing at in the desert,, IS THE BAD LANDS.... there are Drug and People smugglers,,, ALL who would think LITTLE of turning me into so much chum""".....

Many I have made friends with"" and we go about are way""" but there is the NEW ones who are VERY wild and careless to Life''''

I choose to not be the Dead Dog Howl`n... with respect, of your position,, but in rebuttal Twain,TBuk...

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Ted Bukovscak
BUKOVSCAK SIGNS
S/California
tbuk@nethere.com

[This message has been edited by TBUK (edited March 05, 2001).]

Posted by John Kurtzman (Member # 1736) on :

I overheard a comment once that we are nothing more than "Animals with a God", be it money, sex or power, and worship only those things made with human hands. That started me thinking, and realized that superstition and rumor are practically the same thing... Historicaly a means of controlling the masses. In which case I looked up the word "Belief" and found it to say,its generally based on an opinion or rumor,nothing factual, and now we can get into "Faith", confidence in the truth,and truth is what one believes it to be.So our behavior for life is how we allow ourselves to be programmed for whatever reason. Alfa & Omega

Kurtzman
Norwalk, Ct.

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Creative communication since 1959

Posted by Pierre St.Marie (Member # 1462) on :

Remember the student who ran down and killed 4 of his classmates in a rage the other day? I say we ban all Volvos and sue the manufacturer. That'll show 'em.

:^)

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St.Marie Graphics
& Makin' Tracks Sound Studio
Kalispell, Montana
stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com
800 735-8026
We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)

Posted by Mikes Mischeif (Member # 1744) on :

This shooter (and criminals) knew that he would face unprotected targets. It's like shooting fish (or children) in a barrel. They long for the day when guns are outlawed so the american public will be at thier mercy when they will be the only ones with guns.

Without capital punishment, these "victims of society" will cost US thousands as he undergoes psycological evaluation, rehabilitation, housing at the local penetentary, etc.

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Mike Duncan
Lettercraft Signs
Alexandria VA

I have never let schooling interfere with my education - Mark Twain

Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :

SICK, SICK, SICK! You figure it out.
Neil

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"Keep Positive"

SIGNS1st.
Neil Butler
Paradise, NF

Posted by Deb Fowler (Member # 1039) on :

These kids are searching for answers! I see kids that are struggling to find truth in what is going on in life. Sometimes they don't have the parenting they need for many reasons, and so on, but I also see many parents and administrators looking for a way to help before it happens.
For instance: I have noticed that in many communities there are NO alateen groups, when there is a lot of cash flow and many more groups and resources. I have seen kids respond positively to these groups in the communities around the country in which they are. But, I have seen particular areas that simpley never have them, saying they don't know why no one has them. Yet, they are the same people that are being paid high salaries in coping with the aftermath of the problem after it has progressed to almost no
hope. Yes, in my area, I have asked this question over and over, and we have more resources than you can shake a stick at. Within four counties, there is not one of these groups for the kids! Not in the eight years I have been inquiring. It just seems as though (as an example), the group would be run with no cost, could be run by a recovered alcoholic, if not a teen, and help a huge portion of the kids struggling with the confusion or problems. It has more to do with the thought process than pointing the blame on a family member. It lifts and unites the soul and makes some sense to the teen (or preteen) about many issues. There are many Alanon and AA meetings for the adults, but where are the ones for our kids.
My point is not about AA or Alanon or alcohol.
My point is to share an example of how some adults with an hour a week of their time can offer to our kids a valuable resource to help them along their struggles.
Everyone knows someone that is suffering and it's high time we woke up to do something.
This is a "something" we can do right now.
I also am highly ticked at why all these people with resources and time and salaries haven't started one yet. Not all the kids would come that need to, but it would provide a place available, without an appointment and paperwork, to come and learn and vent and share. They may even find an added bonus+, LOVE.

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Deb
Creative Signs

Posted by Pierre St.Marie (Member # 1462) on :

Well said, Deb.

Posted by Mikes Mischeif (Member # 1744) on :

Why does everyone think we can "program" our way out of problems? I'm listening to the principal speak as I write this. She is praising the schools training for shooting emergencies. She is telling us there ARE programs in her community that would have prevented this, the kind of teen programs mentioned in the above post. This is not the answer.

This kid came from a broken home. As long as divorce rates escalate and kids are single parented, or poorly partented by both mom and dad, nothing will change. I'm listening to the principal tell everyone that EVERY adult is responsible for "kids" like this.

I'm listening to councellors console the other students with God-like references while the science teachers stand behind them ready to teach them tomorrow that God does not exsist and evolution proves it. They teach that the human "animal" has no soul, and like the rest of the food chain thus can be killed without moral consideration.

I'm listening to her tell the world thet we are to blame. So, are we to blame? Do we need to join a "program" as she suggests to be better parents or be a better society?

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Mike Duncan
Lettercraft Signs
Alexandria VA

I have never let schooling interfere with my education - Mark Twain

Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :

It's not the broken homes that are the problem. It is the lack of parenting. Lack of supervision. Most of these kids are just looking for attention....any kind. Most of the kids that take the wrong path, their parents or caretakers didn't educate them on gun safety...nor did they have their weapons locked away in a safe place. Kids are naturally curious. So why have things right out in front of them, unsupervised? If we blame problems like this on broken homes...it is just passing the blame so to speak. I know kids who are home alone everyday after school. This started at a way too young age. Then the parents drink and ignore them when they are home! Not caring where their kids are....not even knowing who they hang out with. Come on people if you are willing and able to have kids.....at least have enough respect to teach them right from wrong..and spend time with them. We all need to feel loved.

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surf or MoJo on mirc
Cheryl J Nordby
Signs by Cheryl
(206) 300-0153
Seattle WA.....!
signsbycheryl@hotmail.com
A day without sunshine is like, you know...night http://signsbycheryl.homestead.com/home.html
http://mojosignco.homestead.com/home.html

Posted by LazyEdna (Member # 266) on :

We can change the gun laws, or we can change people... which is easier?
LE

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LazyEdna
in RL known as Sara Straw
from southern Utah
5 National Parks within 3 hours drive
Red Rock Heaven

Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :

(We can change the gun laws, or we can change people... which is easier? LE )

That's assuming changing gun laws will work.
We know they won't because we keep adding to the laws and ...oh well, what's the use.
We are all set in our beliefs one way or the other and I don't think we are going to change each others minds.

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Wright Signs
Wyandotte, Michigan
Since 1978
http://www.wrightsigns.bigstep.com

Posted by Mikes Mischeif (Member # 1744) on :

I didn't mean to imply that single parents are to blame. If kids had 2 parents, there would be a 100 percent increase in supervision. The thing is, These troubled teens premeditated the killings.

It's one thing to have a "bad day" get a gun and walk into an office and shoot the payroll office clerk for withholding your check. It's another mentallity to tell everyone over the weekend you going to do it.

Parents assume morals are being taught in schools. Except, there is no moral training in schools. Parents can't theach morals when they have none themselves.

If you can get laws that would take away guns and weapons, there would be no need to teach morals since it would be assumed that no one could get hurt. without morals, Pre-teen sex would still run rampant, as well as the diseases that accompany them. (there are programs for that too but they are not working) Teen alcoholism and drug abuse would continue because we see these as "non-violent" crimes. Would the gun control folks support the prohibition of alcohol as well?

We might as well accept that this is going to continue. You can't get toothpaste back in the tube. Guns are in cabinets, Booze is close by. You would have to ban guns & liquor worldwide for these laws to have any teeth, and thats simply not going to happen.

TV, Movies and ads (seen the abercrombie catalog this month featuring full frontal nudity?) are promoting the casual sex themes without showing the aftermath, are marketed directly at jr & high schoolers.

Kids can't help but see thier political leaders, athletes, and peers engage in such activity, so the pressure to conform is greater than the ability to abstain. They can't do it alone.

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Mike Duncan
Lettercraft Signs
Alexandria VA

I have never let schooling interfere with my education - Mark Twain

[This message has been edited by Mikes Mischeif (edited March 06, 2001).]

Posted by Michelle Ray (Member # 1899) on :

Seems like these kids are alone a lot. With only their violent video games and movies to keep them company. Maybe they just get de-sensitized to killing and death. What they need is their parents. Or ANYONE who can help raise them.

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Michelle Ray

Posted by david drane (Member # 507) on :

Changing gun laws has not worked in Australia!!!

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Drane Signs
Sunshine Coast
Nambour, Qld.
dranesig@dingoblue.net.au
Downunder
"If we did all things we are capable of doing, we would literally astound ourselves" - Thomas Edison

Posted by Pierre St.Marie (Member # 1462) on :

Change the people.......if they won't listen.........pistol whip 'em!

:^)

Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :

LE,

Not meaning for this thread to turn into another gun argument, I just had to ask....

It is a Federal crime to bring a gun onto school grounds.

It is a crime to shoot someone except in self-defense and in fear of your life.

It is a crime for a 15 year old to handle a gun without adult supervision.

Tell me, if these laws don't work, what makes you think that adding more laws would have caused a 15 year old boy to stop and think about what he is doing? Do we outlaw guns outright? We have with crack-cocaine and pot which are illegal, but that hasn't stopped everyone.

There are over 20 thousand gun laws and ordinances on the books. Which one do you think should have been enough to stop the boy? What law do you think should be on the books that you know would have stopped him?

Changing laws will never have an affect on a person's heart. He knew what he was doing. He planned it. He knew it was wrong and illegal. He did it anyway. He knew what the consequences would be. He should pay the price required.

He alone made the decision to kill. He is responsible for his own actions and no one else.

I have no sympathy for him.

Tell me...what law would you write that you know would have prevented this>> http://www.nydailynews.com/2001-03-06/News_and_Views/Crime_File/a-102260.asp

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Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.
http://members.tripod.com/taylor_graphics

[This message has been edited by Glenn Taylor (edited March 06, 2001).]

Posted by Deb Fowler (Member # 1039) on :

All of these answers hold some weight. And all of these viewpoints seem to me to be very well thought out and have a validity on their own. It is our problem, whether it is our child or not, since it is our society. But, yes, each parent should take responsibility for their child, and teach the moral values at their home. Sometimes the toothpaste is out of the tube, and there aren't always ways to get it back in.
Not every person has children and I don't feel it is their responsibility to raise other's children. That is freedom of choice. But as a parent and a fellow human being I choose to share with others if I can help one more child. I don't have all the answers. I didn't have the same problems with my first two children. The society is a bit different now.
To discuss these issues on this board can be an asset of putting ideas out there and by that, maybe some constructive thought will materialize and help a few kids! Maybe one, maybe more! The issues are worth discussing. I am learning a lot here. (We have the tv off now and are working on a poster for liquor campaigns, cutting out different ads that are allowed (even though cigarettes are banned from the magazines). It is a school
project. My son sees the beautiful artwork on them, the gorgeous packaging and we are about to embark on a very hot issue here, liquor and teenage drinking.

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Deb
Creative Signs

Posted by Pierre St.Marie (Member # 1462) on :

My posts are usually short and to the point. This one's no exception. Both of my straight up, intellegent and successful children, at a very early age, grew up learning about firearms, how and when to safely use them and the inherent dangers. Why is all of this so very clear to them and so difficult for others to understand? Waddaya think? Hmmm??

Posted by TBUK (Member # 443) on :

I just like to say thank you and good show,, to the people who have chose to join in on a post "Crap" shoot`n,...

I have been sitting on PINz, Very uncomferable,,, hoping that the post would not start to BURN;;; You all have responded very well and I am please, Very Please,,,

to Date 24 hitz,, and not a shot fired...

This is a ::Good Thang:: Twain,TBuk

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Ted Bukovscak
BUKOVSCAK SIGNS
S/California
tbuk@nethere.com

Posted by Pierre St.Marie (Member # 1462) on :

kaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaBLAM!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :

I'm with Ted. We're actually having an intelligent discussion here. I don't believe anyone's opinions will swing 180 degrees, but it is interesting to see what everyone thinks without any personal attacks. Thank you.

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Steve Shortreed
144 Hill St., E.
Fergus, Ontario
Canada N1M 1G9
519-787-2673
steve@letterhead.com
ICQ 316338
www.letterhead.com/profiles/shortreed/

Posted by Pierre St.Marie (Member # 1462) on :

This proves the point, doesn't it? It's NOT personal and we don't need to MAKE it personal. Actually if it happens to YOU...........then it becomes personal. Funny how you can have firmly entrenched ideas/ideals about things like this, and then when it happens to you.........your direction can change one way or the other.

Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :

"We can change gun laws, or we can change people... which is easier?"

We could also offer some thoughtful discussion, or fall back on simplistic rhetorical devices... which is easier?

We can teach our children right from wrong, and that all actions have consequences, or, we can let the TV set babysit and teach them... which is easier?

We can blame guns or drugs or politicians or the media or the boogeyman-du-jour, or we can actually take responsibility for our lives... which is easier?

We can sit around complaining about how awful things are and why doesn't the Government DO something, or we can be creative and proactive about our problems... which is easier?

We can evade reality and shut off our minds in favor of feel-good slogans, or we can choose to think clearly and rationally... which is easier?

We can choose to be cattle, refusing to think or care or get involved, or we can take on the infinitely more difficult and rewarding task of being fully human... which is easier?

Two children are dead. The gun laws of the State of California didn't save them; no Hollywood hero or pious-mouthed politician appeared to stop the bullets. The slaughter is sickening and obscene, and all we are offered is more of the same.

I'm sick of hearing about which solutions are "easier".

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"A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Raoul Duke (Hunter S. Thompson)

Cam
Finest Kind Signs
256 S. Broad St.
Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379
"Award winning Signs since 1988"

Posted by John Kurtzman (Member # 1736) on :

I can remember a popular movie from the 1950's starring Glen Ford called "Blackboard Jungle". It was a story about kids who belonged to gangs, carried knifes to school, and pretty much made up their own rules for life. One might wonder about the attitudes of todays societies and culture and say what's wrong with these kids today?
Don't we inherit our traditions and assimilate the enviornment we are born into?

Kurtzman
Norwalk, Ct.

"As you think, so you become"(Mel Brooks?)

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Creative communication since 1959

Posted by Deb Fowler (Member # 1039) on :

Speak, share, think, act!

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Deb
Creative Signs

Posted by Steve Purcell (Member # 1140) on :

Our nation is now two generations into its grand experiment in secular humanism.
The earliest victims of Madalyn Murray O'Hair et al are now the proud parents of teenagers raised in a society which rewards self indulgence and preaches moral relativism.

As a child, I can recall being picked on by the usual louts and morons who inhabit the back rows of the classroom. And though I had easy access to many firearms in my home, it never occured to me to "get even" with the world through the indiscriminate slaughter of innocent classmates.

As I see it, the violence among some of our youth has nothing to do with guns, which are far less easily obtainable today than in previous generations.
Even if one feels inclined to debate that point, the question of why people today are more willing to inflict death upon each other than in times past remains.

Many of the cultural and moral changes that we have seen over the past forty years are relevant to the problems which we now face as a society.
Even if you discount one or another, taken as a whole they constitute a pretty solid indictment;

-As 50's/60's kids, the most violent TV show we watched was The Three Stooges, casual killing was not common entertainment fare.

-The games we played were social, active and mostly healthy, not solitary, savage, amoral video games.

-The music we listened to was not violent, profane, or misogynistic.

-Respect for ones elders was normal and was expected.

-Reading for recreation was a common childhood activity.

-We weren't shamed into curbing our expression of faith to oblige iconoclastic "freethinkers".

-We weren't targeted at a young age with sexually explicit marketing, entertainment or "education".

-Most of us came home from school each day to a waiting parent.

-Evening dinner, and oftimes evening activities, were done as family.

Of course, this is only a partial list, and I have no solution for society as a whole to put Pandora back into the box. But it irks me no end to see people taking the intellectually lazy route and proposing one law after another to remedy a problem that
is so obviously rooted in moral decay.

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Purcell Woodcarving & Signmaking
spurcell99@mediaone.net
Cape Cod, MA

Posted by Mikes Mischeif (Member # 1744) on :

If you havn't heard by now, another student was shot here in the D.C. area. A fight broke out as in many schools do. The "loser" waited outside for his rival and shot him in the stomach. He will survive.

I would like to ad to steves comments which where identical in everyway to my own life experiences. I believe that those of us who fell prey to the schoolyard bully developed character through the realization that life would not be fair to everyone.

There are winners and losers, but only in small degrees in grade school. It is only that we just didn't realize it at the time. It is through these situations that you learn to deal with the win/lose situations, and cling to the things you excell at.

The change is clear to me. When I was young,I was consoled by the coach, peers, and parents when we lost little league games. It was reality. Todays games are stopped, and no score is kept to build "self-esteeme" on both sides of the field. Saving face in high school can be difficult at best, but we all got thru it without using a 22.

My how times change. I don't have children yet, but I am mentoring my 5 yr old neice whose father was shot during drug deal gunplay in washington D.C.

When she turns 10, She will be driven downtown to see street people with brown bags of wine pushing shoppingcarts and eating garbage. Addicts passed out with syringes next to them. Single Teenage mothers with 2 kids and another on the way, and convicted felons who chose a life of crime. She will learn the cause and effect of physical and mental abuse. I will not hid her from the realities of life portrayed by media or any other candy coated message her brain picks up.

I will reward her for honesty, seperation from peers who don't respect authority, and any other activity that is not condusive to a better moral standard despite its acceptance by society.

And if in 15 years, the brakes aren't put on to curb the release of sexual predators ,she,like them will learn to operate and keep "real" feminine protection in her purse.

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Mike Duncan
Lettercraft Signs
Alexandria VA

I have never let schooling interfere with my education - Mark Twain

Posted by J.T. Gazaway (Member # 2001) on :

I wasn't going to weigh in on this one because I thought I would end up typing all day. 2nd amendment aside, I would like to make a couple of points that really bug the daylights out of me. This is one of our biggest problems:
If a rapper gets arrested for some type of firearm offense, this only adds to his resume. It is treated as a "good" thing. If a rapper is involved in a shootout, this only adds to his popularity. If he is killed in a gunfight he acheives immortal status. He is now a hero and practically worshipped by his fans. There is something very, very wrong here. I'm sick of seeing some thug open fire on someone, and then be rewarded with a Grammy.
This message is being passed on to our young people. They know that if they spray their school with gunfire, they will be rewarded with all kinds of television face time and the cover of Time Magazine. This has to change first.
The NFL is almost as bad as the rap community. Ray Lewis had a great year. He beat a murder charge, was awarded a Superbowl ring, and an MVP trophy all in a twelve month span. This sends a great message.
More gun laws aren't going to fix anything as long as we ingnore the ones we have and reward people for violent acts. I'm getting real tired of seeing rappers and NFL players get a free pass because they hold some sort of "special" status above the rest of us.
Tupac Shakur actually had "thug life" tattooed across his chest. Last time I checked, he's still dead. Now how can that be seen as a good thing?

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J.T. Gazaway
J.T. Graphic Design
www.jt-graphicdesign.com
jt@jt-graphicdesign.com

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