The Letterville BullBoard: Website design software???

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Posted by Preston McCall (Member # 351) on December 21, 2000 06:46 PM:

The techno-geeks (nice guys who tend to speak in tongues at times) at the computer shop I trade with insisted I get Dream Weaver and learn it to do websites. I was impressed with Netscape Composer (easy to learn) and heard Frontpage was also a good candidate. So far Dream Weaver is like learning calculus in arabic to me and am seriously wondering if this really is worth the trouble. Another web savvy friend of mine concurred about Dream Weaver as being the one...Does anyone out there have a respectable opinion which one to really learn and use? I would appreciate the any emails and comments back!!

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Preston McCall
2516 W 63rd St.
Mission Hills, Kansas
66208
913-262-3443 office
816-289-7112 cell

Posted by Mike O'Neill (Member # 470) on December 21, 2000 07:15 PM:

Funny you should mention this ... finally getting around to doing my own web site now, I hope to have it up and running (but never complete) in a couple of weeks.
I spent last weekend evaluating website design software, I looked at Adobe Pagemill, Netscape composer and microsoft frontpage 2000... It was no contest ... Microsoft Front page rules ...

My site is far far from ready, I hope to have the basic shell up by the new year, then I'll add depth to it over the next few months.
My son Patrick started a website last night, this is the result of about 1 hours work (including learning curve) he's not finished it but it is coming along nicely.
www.labrador-west.com/rcacc

I'm hosting my own domain, so so far my own learning has had to include how to configure http server, ftp server and mail server. So far so good ... it's not nearly as complicated as I thought it would be (scary part is I think I'm starting to understand what I'm doing ) .. If you have a cable modem and can get a static IP address it beats paying someone else to host your site, I actually plan to host a couple of other businesses on my domain, not to make a business out of it, just enough to pay for my own internet access.

I've got the http server worked out, and the mail server was a snap to set up .. the only thing biting me now is the ftp server (could be a firewall problem) .. I'll get there..

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Mike O'Neill

Trans-Labrador Signs
Labrador City, Labrador

'Durn vinyl won't stick to ice'

moneill@crrstv.net

"The best things in life aren't things"
Art Buchwald

Posted by Mark Fair Signs (Member # 289) on December 21, 2000 08:31 PM:

Dreamweaver is awesome,
it is the only web authoring software i know of where you can actually use layers.
here is one i am working on using dreamwaever and fireworks.
the page it is in it's infancy so no critique please...
http://www.markfair.com/idscuts

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Mark Fair

Mark Fair Signs
http://www.markfair.com

Home of "Sign of the Month
http://www.markfair.com/signomonth.html

2162 Mt. Meigs Road
Montgomery, Alabama 36107
334-262-4449

mark@markfair.com

"Mark Fair is a Proud Contributor to The Letterhead Site!"

Posted by Mark Matyjakowski (Member # 294) on December 21, 2000 09:31 PM:

I have Pagemill, Frontpage200 and Dream Weaver.
I'll vote Dreamweaver too.
There's even loads of websites that have scripts to extend it's capabilities (add functions to your toolbar ... like text rollovers etc.)
And it DOESN'T mess with your coding if you want to add a custom javascript or something.
I do most of my complex stuff in editpad (souped up notepad) then open in DW for the content (text)
It's worth the learn.

------------------
If the world didn't suck we would all fall off ... but, on the other hand ... there's different fingers

http://www.slamgraphics.com
Rochester, N.Y.
mark@slamgraphics.com

Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on December 22, 2000 12:42 AM:

I've used Netscape Composer, Adobe PageMill, Microsoft FrontPage, Notepad.exe (editing HTML from scratch) and now Dreamweaver.

I've used DreamWeaver the least of all these and I'm gonna say it's already the best one.

The only thing I dont like about it is that there's nothing wrong with it to complain about. =)

FrontPage can be a pain in the ass, and is most of the time. PageMill lacks the latest cooler features, COmposer I havent used in years but I remember it being pretty stupid (which is prolly why I havent used it lately) Notepad.exe (or your favorite text editor) just takes too long.. =)

I do use FrontPage for uploading my files to my server though, and most of my site is actually done with FrontPage but I am switching it over to DreamWeaver as I get the time. My server has the FrontPage extensions which is why I upload with FrontPage, although I could use FTP as well.

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Mike Pipes
Digital Illusion Custom Graphics
Lake Havasu City, AZ
http://www.stickerpimp.com

Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on December 22, 2000 03:14 AM:

MICROSOFT PUBLISHER.....its real easy...might work my way up to dreamweaver..someday www.asignmint.atfreeweb.com

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joe pribish-A SIGN MINT
2811 longleaf Dr.
pensacola, fl 32526
850-944-5060
BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND

[This message has been edited by old paint (edited December 22, 2000).]

Posted by Henry Barker (Member # 174) on December 22, 2000 03:28 AM:

Nice Work Mr Fair!....as usual

Tell me something....I have Frontpage 2000 and made my site with that. I upgraded from Frontpage 98...I bought that because I thought it was the most advanced WYSIWYG "dummies" do-it-yourself web creator. Is Dreamweaver something you should use with a knowledge of writing code or is it like Frontpage. I would like to redo my website and make it come alive abit more, abit of movement and fades from one picture to another or graphic or whatever.

Thanks

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Henry Barker #1924
akaKaftan
SignCraft AB
Stockholm, Sweden.
A little bit of England in a corner of Stockholm
www.signcraft.se
info@signcraft.se

Posted by Mark Fair Signs (Member # 289) on December 22, 2000 09:16 AM:

hey henry,
no writing code and java script necessary!
dreamweaver writes it for you.

mark

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Mark Fair

Mark Fair Signs
http://www.markfair.com

Home of "Sign of the Month
http://www.markfair.com/signomonth.html

2162 Mt. Meigs Road
Montgomery, Alabama 36107
334-262-4449

mark@markfair.com

"Mark Fair is a Proud Contributor to The Letterhead Site!"

Posted by Mike Pipes [in a cubicle] (Member # 1841) on December 22, 2000 02:10 PM:

Henry,

DreamWeaver is another WYSIWYG program although it had more functionality than FrontPage. Another nice thing about it is the HTML source editor. In FrontPage you have tabs at the bottom of the page, one for Editing, one for viewing/modifying the HTML source, and one for previewing. Basically you can see one of them at a time..
In DreamWeaver, the HTML source editor and the WYSIWYG editor are in different windows and you can choose to look at both simultaneously or not at all. I like having both visible since I do know a bit of HTML code and can edit it as I see fit.

As far as the fades between pages, check out my site at http://www.stickerpimp.com
I have the fades between my pages and it's done with FrontPage however the transition i just HTML. In fact, here's what the HTML for it looks like.. pretty simple.. just stick it right below the title tag on your page if you are editing the HTML manually.

I definitely recommend DreamWeaver, it's the creme of the crop..

OR you can get DreamWeaver UltraDev which is the version I have. You can use it to build custom web applications that reference databases.. real handy if you'll eventually want to build shopping carts or just have dynamically generated web pages based on info that's in a database.

Pretty cool stuff!

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Mike Pipes
-----trapped in a box with a computer and a slice of cheese-----

Posted by Henry Barker (Member # 174) on December 22, 2000 05:00 PM:

OK accepted that like Joe etc point out there are the cheap or free editors...that said having used Frontpage for a couple of years, I am sold on buying Dreamweaver,

Mike you mention Dreamweaver Ultradev, I think that is abit unecessary for me and has a price tag here of around $460, I have here on my list Dreamweaver 3 Fireworks 3 Studio at about $380, just Dreamweaver 3 at about $275 and then Flash 5 at $320.

Mark, what are you using is it dreamweaver 3 and do you have to have Flash to get movements etc like you have with the saw.

I would like to get some movement on an opening page, like for example the company I used to drive semis for www.yourock-weroll.com It would be great to sit here over the long dark cold winter evenings and try and build something abit more fun.

Mark if you read this I would really like to know if you use anything in conjunction with Dreamweaver like Flash etc

Happy Christmas to you all too!

------------------
Henry Barker #1924
akaKaftan
SignCraft AB
Stockholm, Sweden.
A little bit of England in a corner of Stockholm
www.signcraft.se
info@signcraft.se

Posted by Mark Fair Signs (Member # 289) on December 22, 2000 05:18 PM:

hey henry,
sorry if i mislead you.

yes, i am using flash 4 for the shockwave presentation with audio loop.
the 3 programs in the macromedia family work well together.

the programs are a chunk of change(expensive)
but well worth it!

i worked with adobe pagemill for a while then i decided to invest in macromedia software.

Dan Antonelli is one of the best i've seen in web design and manipulation of Macromedia Freehand and the other related web authoring programs.

we all aspire to be that good!!!
http://www.macromedia.com

happy holidays bubba,

mark

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Mark Fair

Mark Fair Signs
http://www.markfair.com

Home of "Sign of the Month
http://www.markfair.com/signomonth.html

2162 Mt. Meigs Road
Montgomery, Alabama 36107
334-262-4449

mark@markfair.com

"Mark Fair is a Proud Contributor to The Letterhead Site!"

Posted by Mark Fair Signs (Member # 289) on December 22, 2000 05:42 PM:

Flash is also great for creating quick animated .gif files... http://www.markfair.com/flyingbiscuit/shoptruck.gif

------------------
Mark Fair

Mark Fair Signs
http://www.markfair.com

Home of "Sign of the Month
http://www.markfair.com/signomonth.html

2162 Mt. Meigs Road
Montgomery, Alabama 36107
334-262-4449

mark@markfair.com

"Mark Fair is a Proud Contributor to The Letterhead Site!"

Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on December 22, 2000 06:52 PM:

Henry,

Yes, UltraDev is WAY more than the average joe would need, but since so much of my business relies on the web, it can offer so much more flexibility to my business if I use the higher end version.

Eventually, I will have a shopping cart like no other, one that I designed myself, and it will be dynamically linked to my price lists and catalog info.

There will be a day when logging into my web server to update a website will be a thing of the past, and DreamWeaver UltraDev makes that a possibility.

I cant make use of this right now, but there will be a day and it's coming up soon.

------------------
Mike Pipes
Digital Illusion Custom Graphics
Lake Havasu City, AZ
http://www.stickerpimp.com

Posted by Preston McCall (Member # 351) on December 22, 2000 11:03 PM:

Thanks for all your comments. I have spent the last few days crunching thru the lessons, tutorials and Visual Quickstart guide by J. Towers (quich is wonderful). I see all of the info about the fact the Dreamweaver makes clean code and is the supremo tool. I certainly see it is complex and am beginning to get it.

My biggest criticisms are that bringing in images is a real pain. No cut and paste feature from other programs. You have to size everything and know exactly where it is going. So far I give the program poor marks for being WAY TOO HARD TO LEARN. Hey, I aced Calculus and Physics and this one is a real bear! No kidding! The tutorial and lessons are not explanatory enough and they call everything by a new name (like Property Inspector???) They keep dropping names in the learnup that are not explained and I find I have to scratch my head way too much.

In a nutshell: The program seems like it is the Cadillac program and certainly seems the way to go, however better give yourself some time to learn it and plenty of patience. The 'Dummy" books also help. Slow going and soon we will all see the results as my site is almost ready! Many, many of my oil paintings from the last 30 years and all my serious art stuff. I'm close. Thanks for your support.

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Preston McCall
2516 W 63rd St.
Mission Hills, Kansas
66208
913-262-3443 office
816-289-7112 cell

Posted by Preston McCall (Member # 351) on December 22, 2000 11:09 PM:

Oh by the way...the underconstruction deal is up and running sortof, but not at all together, If you want to see a little sampler go look at some of the randomly set paintings from all over the years. No order, but you will get the idea... www.prestonmccall.com

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Preston McCall
2516 W 63rd St.
Mission Hills, Kansas
66208
913-262-3443 office
816-289-7112 cell

Posted by Mark Fair Signs (Member # 289) on December 23, 2000 02:16 AM:

nice work preston!
i love to see handpainted!

very nice eye candy!

mark

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Mark Fair

Mark Fair Signs
http://www.markfair.com

Home of "Sign of the Month
http://www.markfair.com/signomonth.html

2162 Mt. Meigs Road
Montgomery, Alabama 36107
334-262-4449

mark@markfair.com

"Mark Fair is a Proud Contributor to The Letterhead Site!"

Posted by Wayne Marchant (Member # 1277) on December 23, 2000 03:11 AM:

This AINT a cheesy site plug but check-out my site at www.signsplusmore.com
I did it with Frontpage 2000 and learned as I went. Very user friendly. I now help friends with their sites, and am currently working on 2 new sites of my own.
I can't speak for other programs, but FP2K is what works for me.

Good Luck
V Wayne

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V.Wayne Marchant (pronounced marsh-ant)
Vancouver,BC,Canada
opticart@lightspeed.bc.ca http://www.signsplusmore.com

[This message has been edited by V.Wayne (edited December 23, 2000).]

Posted by Bruce Jackson (Member # 45) on December 23, 2000 08:00 AM:

I also like Dreamweaver but it's not without its minor irritations.

Sometimes the HTML needs tweaking. So it's not perfect. It sometimes botches links, and overdoes certain tags and attributes.

It doesn't entirely let you off the hook of HTML literacy. You can make a good site with it, but to get the full advantage of it's functions, you need to know what its doing and be in control.

I'd like to be able to switch between pages in the editor without going back to the site explorer interface and opening up each file for editing.

The management of styles is messy and the FTP section is crap....you can't move around the remote site with as much freedom as a simple FTP program.

All in all though, a powerful tool and my preferred assistant.

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Bruce Jackson
Melbourne, Australia
www.glassgilding.com

UBB.classic™ 6.7.2