Due to the over-whelming inquiries on one of my posts regarding sandblasted redwood signs, I would like to offer the method we use. Please let me preface this by saying it works for us and before you actually do a big job, try doing a sample first just to get the idea.
We prepare our own blanks using kiln dried redwood joined with biscuits. We can skip this part because everybody has their own way of preparing the wood. The one thing that is important is that it does need to be thoroughly dried.
We do not ever use a brush with this method. Everything is sprayed using oil base paint. There should be no re-touching necessary if you do this correctly.
Step 1. Prepare your blank and thorougly sand with 80 grit sandpaper.
Step 2. Prime your blank completely with a good oil based primer. We do use a block out and give the blank several coats until it is completely primed and sealed. When you think you're done, spray on one more coat and let dry.
Step 3. After primer is thoroughly dry and blank is completely covered, sand primer with 80 grit paper.
Step 4. Paint the entire blank with your lettering color. This assumes the background is blasted out and the lettering is higher than the background. We can call this the foreground color. Use One Shot or any good outdoor lettering paint. Avoid latex at all costs. Do not use any cheap house paints! One Shot is your best choice. If the finish needs to be satin or flat, use a good quality univeral flattening paste. Spray on paint after thinning to proper consistency. You now have a completely primed and painted blank.
Step 5. Cut your sandblast mask on your plotter as you would normally. Use a 60 degree blade. We use Anchor 117 film but with this method, most any brand will do.
Step 6. This is the secret step that we use. Cut your artwork again but this time use GerberMask. No other brand will do! You now have a rubber film and a Gerbermask artwork to weed. Weed as necessary peeling out the part that gets sandblasted and leaving the parts that don't.
Step 7. Apply GerberMask to painted blank.
Step 8. Apply Sandblast film to GerberMask! Be careful to line up the Sandblast film as best you can. You may have to trim a tiny bit here or there. We don't bother to do this because it doesn't make any difference. If your plotter is accurate, the two films will line up very well.
Step 9. Sandblast your sign as required.
Step 10. Leave all film in place and spray prime the raw redwood that was sandblasted away. Prime until wood is completely sealed and then spray on one more coat just to make sure. Let dry.
Step 11. Spray background color directly onto primed area using two or three coats as necessary.
Step 12. After last color is dry, peel away the GerberMask/Sandblast Mask together. If you've followed these instructions, you will have a PERFECT, let me repeat....PERFECT....job that requires no brushing or touch ups.
We have approx 8 hours total labor on a 3' X 6' sign. That includes everything except designing.
Please try this technique as an experiment first before you actually do a job. Once you are sure you understand what has to take place, then go ahead and have some fun. No more sore backs....no more labor intensive sandblasted signs.
If you have any questions, please e-mail me and I will try to answer them. If you've used this system before, you already know how well it works and I'm sorry for taking up your time.
Good luck......
------------------ Louis A. Lazarus Milt's Sign Service, Inc. 20 So. Linden Ave. #5B 650-588-0490 fontking1a@aol.com
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
Lou, thanks for sharing this technique with us! Why do you think that only the Gerber mask will work?Is there something different about the adhesive?
------------------ The SignShop Mendocino, California "Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"
Posted by Louis A Lazarus (Member # 763) on :
Rick....I trust GerberMask. Any other product always seem to disappoint.... I've had so many problems with other manufacturers products that we don't even mess around anymore. However, if you want to experiment...feel free. The key to the whole thing is that the sandblast film NEVER touches the wood or the paint. Gerbermask peels cleanly and the adhesive seems to be just right. Let the One Shot dry out in the sun for a couple of days and it works every time......
------------------ Louis A. Lazarus Milt's Sign Service, Inc. 20 So. Linden Ave. #5B 650-588-0490 fontking1a@aol.com
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
Good idea on the double mask,I'll have to try it sometime soon.I hand cut more stencil than the computer tho...curious...how do you approach that?
------------------ Monte Jumper SIGNLanguage/Norman.Okla.
Posted by Cheryl Lucas (Member # 1656) on :
Would the same apply for cedar?
------------------ Cheryl Lucas a/k/a "Shag" Vital Signs & Graphics, Etc. Cape Coral, Florida VSignsNgraphics@aol.com
Posted by Louis A Lazarus (Member # 763) on :
Monte...I wouldn't hand-cut anything if at all possible. If you can cut your labor time down, you will free up more time to other stuff. For example, if you spend a hour cutting by hand, you've lost an hour you can spend on something else. If, however, the competition is not a factor and you can afford to spend the time doing hand work...then by all means....have at it. This technique I'm recommending will save you time in the long run and still allow you to charge what you already charge...thus saving you more time to do another project. I'm more than familiar with the customary method of making sandblasted redwood signs and it is labor intensive. This new way...is not! Also, the end result is razor sharp, perfect lettering with no drips or sloppy corners anywhere...which was always a frustration to me. I wasn't fond of digging the brush into all those hard to get places. If your plotter will not cut sandblast film...find a local shop that can do it for you from your artwork. You might even be able to set up some sort of trading agreement with him...labor for labor. Some of us lose sight in this business in that it is a business and the goal of any business is to make a profit. Most of us are small businesses and the more efficiently we can spend our time...the more money (in theory at least) we can make. I would encourage you to do an experiment using this method and using the plotter just to prove to yourself how much time you will save. At any rate...good luck with whatever you decide.
------------------ Louis A. Lazarus Milt's Sign Service, Inc. 20 So. Linden Ave. #5B 650-588-0490 fontking1a@aol.com
Posted by Louis A Lazarus (Member # 763) on :
Cheryl....I'm sure there would be absolutely no difference with cedar. The mail idea is to avoid that nasty sandblast film from peeling away the redwood and having to spend a lot of time patching and touching up with a brush. Once you have convinced yourself that the GerberMask won't lift any of the paint, you will notice that you get perfect results in a fraction of the time with absolutely no brushwork. I'm not really sure why this works so well but here's what I think happens. When you sandblast, the rubber film heats up and the adhesive actually bonds to the redwood...or cedar. Thus, when you pull the darn stuff off....off comes the wood. The GerberMask acts as a barrier and the adhesive is less agressive (I think) and since your blank is already painted, the GerberMask will peel easily off of the paint leaving perfect edges. Just don't peel anything until ALL the painting is done. Once the last step is completed and the background is coated with primer and paint and finished to your satisfaction, the only thing left to do is to peel the GerberMask and sandblast film together in one easy step leaving a perfect sign with no retouching or patching. Please experiment on a small sign until you get the idea. Good luck.....
------------------ Louis A. Lazarus Milt's Sign Service, Inc. 20 So. Linden Ave. #5B 650-588-0490 fontking1a@aol.com
Posted by Tim (Member # 1699) on :
Hey Monte, I suppose you could lay your SB material to the mask first, then hand-cut through both. That might work for ya.....
------------------ Tim Rieck Signs Halfmoon Bay, BC tim_rieck@dccnet.com
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
Except for copy under 2 " I have found it to be much faster to hand cut everything ,I have never been hap py with the results of painting the slab first but this interests me and I will give it a go...Besides I like the sanctity of working with my hands ...production is of course of prime concern but we seem to meet our quota so I doubt things will change much,thanx again for the info.
------------------ Monte Jumper SIGNLanguage/Norman.Okla.
Posted by Rich Stebbing (Member # 368) on :
Great Idea shared here! Another SignMan tells me he blasts using 3 layers of intermediate vinyl and gets great results. I hav'nt tested myself and wondered if anybody had tried it? Now what to do when you desire a "natural finish". I have in the past used a sealer over entire blank,paint designated areas, pounced all with pounce-bag when dry and then applied mask. The pounce takes some of the tack away from mask, but you never know until you start removing mask if it detackified it enough.I like the double-mask idea, but why not apply a third if you don't need sandblast mask. I hope someone here will test, as I don't do hardly any blasted signs anymore but sure would like to know. Hey Louis thanks for bringing up this topic.
------------------ Rich Stebbing #945 RichSigns Rohnert Park CA
Posted by Louis A Lazarus (Member # 763) on :
Rich S....
It was my pleasure. Hope this helps! It's just a new way of doing an old procedure. For those that love to use the brush...why change if it's working? For those who love to try new things...this works great!
------------------ Louis A. Lazarus Milt's Sign Service, Inc. 20 So. Linden Ave. #5B 650-588-0490 fontking1a@aol.com
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
Louis, I'm wondering if the sandblast mask you are using is the high tack stuff. The medium tack rubber I use from Anchor Continental seems to have an adhesive even less agressive than masking vinyl. The only time I ever had any paint or wood peel up was one time when I used a sand that was too course.
My method: Coat out entire sign blank with Sign Life First Step. This stuff is not only an excellent primer, but it binds the wood fibers together, deep into the wood. It dries in 12 to 24 hours.
Then I prepaint as you do with 2 coats One Shot.
The next day the rubber goes on and I blast.
After blasting I stain the background with OIL stain. Sign Life has 3 great colors that are very long lasting and flows easily and quickly into the tightest grooves. When it comes to other colors I prefer True Test Oil Stain.
Dab off excess stain from the rubber. Don't wipe it off as it can lift the rubber and let stain creep between the rubber and your letters.
The next day, remove the rubber. Allow another day for stain to completely dry. Done.
------------------ Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 ICQ: 21604027 sherwood@up.net
[This message has been edited by Dave Sherby (edited November 03, 2000).]
Posted by Louis A Lazarus (Member # 763) on :
Dave...your method sounds good to me. We use the Anchor 117. Since it only has to stick to the GerberMask...it really shouldn't make much difference. We haven't done a stained sign in quite awhile. Ours seem to be painted and that's why we tried to develop a better method than the one we were using. My motto is: Whatever works is OK with me.
------------------ Louis A. Lazarus Milt's Sign Service, Inc. 20 So. Linden Ave. #5B 650-588-0490 fontking1a@aol.com
