The Letterville BullBoard: customers own artwork

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Posted by Dave Ginley (Member # 1723) on :

It all started last week when a contractor called and said that he needed his van lettered. He said that he would stop in and go over what he wanted on his van. Well, he stoped in with a nice desighn he made on his computer? The design itself wasn't bad, but the problem was that every line of text that he had was three colors. We couldn't get him away from using three colors on every line of text. So, we wnt ahead and did the job the way he wanted. It turned out decent,but still to much color for me. Everything just seemed to run together. When he picked up his van he was happy, I guess that is that really matters is the customer being happy. Maybe his next van I can get him away from all the colors. If it were up to me, i would have microsoft take out there microsoft paint as a standard program when buying a new computer. That would save me some headaches every now and then. Hey, today is another day

Eric LaFore
Ace of Signs
Selinsgrove, PA www.aceofsigns.com

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Posted by LazyEdna (Member # 266) on :

You know, I think this is one of the toughest dilemnas for some sign folks. I know I have a difficult time with it... maybe that's why I'm so POOR!

Because.. I think it really does come down to: your work integrity (which no one cares about but you), and money. Many of us compromise by not admitting we did certain jobs.. heh heh.
Then again.. there's that EGO thing...it's so annoying that a distressingly large portion of the populace has NO CLUE between good design and puke on a stick. Which means we aren't appreciated for that which we feel is our most valuable attribute in our work. I know I keep telling myself it's not personal, that they just don't know any better... but why won't they listen to me, the obvious expert? aughhh.....
All I can say is, we're in good company... many of Rembrandt's clients asked him to paint in the "manner of" some other more *popular* painter of his day, which he refused to do... anyone know the names of those "more popular" painters today?

He did suffer financial loss for his stubborn character... but, as far as posterity is concerned.. it was worthwhile. So there's the dilemna.
LE

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LazyEdna
in RL known as Sara Straw
from southern Utah
5 National Parks within 3 hours drive
Red Rock Heaven

Posted by Ryan Ursta (Member # 1738) on :

Hey Ace!
Its always rough when a customer comes in with somthing that looks like crap, and you have to tell them that! I had a guy come in with a van and a piece of paper. He did the design on his computer and said "i want you to put this on the van!" So i said i would but told him that the image wouldn't scan perfectly. Then i laid out the van in a more tasteful manner than he did.
I don't know about you but i dont like having
to do customers designs......and if i do i still charge them the same layout fees if not more. I mean their vehicles are going to be seen all over town and when someone asks ....."who did your van" He's gonna say Ryan at Ursta Graphics. If that van dosen't look good its a bad reflection on you.

Ps. Hell of a racetrack you guys have out there.. Do you letter any of the cars?

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Ryan Ursta
Ursta Graphics
27 West Shenango St.
Sharpsville Pa. 16150
"letters of Recommendation"

Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :

When customers bring me their own work I usually try to offer something a bit cooler or more pleasing just so I can say I had a hand in designing it. Sometimes it's as simple as taking their design and just changing it a little. This way you get your artistic needs met and the customer gets their ego stroked.

That only works if I actually *LIKE* their design to some extent.

If the design is just awefully ugly, the first words out of my mouth are "Oh GOD that's an ugly piece of s**t. Here, have a seat and let's work something out."
I have no reservations telling customers their art is ugly. Hey, if I think it's ugly chances are everyone else will too.

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Mike Pipes
Digital Illusion Custom Graphics
Lake Havasu City, AZ
http://www.stickerpimp.com

Posted by Dave Ginley (Member # 1723) on :

Well I see the young Ace was venting his frustration with that van..I didn't see the finished product yet...but I will soon...it has bubbles and he's bringing it back...I don't think he believed Eric when he told him the bubbles will go flat..oh well we'll cope...

Ryan, we did have a nice racetrack but a few years of mismanagement can run anything into the ground...right now it doesn't look like there'll be a 2001 season at Selinsgrove we'll have to wait and see...

As far as lettering cars we did our own..we haven't run since '97.. and just a few select others...since the track doesn't pay much they haven't drawn the caliper of car that they are willing to put money into to make them look too good or unique..We have some "compitition" that will do a car for $100.00...3-color numbers, nine sponsors...well $100.00 just doesn't do it for me...we have about a half-dozen cars that we do each year..they drop the car off let Eric do what he wants to and they pay the bill when they pick it up..they don't argue about the price..and if the track opens next year they'll be back...

Are you in the Clearfield area??? We bought our first car from Barry DeSalve in DuBois..
He ran the Clearfield Mountain Speedway with it...

Dave
Ace of Signs
Selinsgrove, Pa. www.aceofsigns.com

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Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :

Man, it always burns my butt when customers come in with a layout that they have done on their home computer, and want ME to use it for their sign. NOPE NOPE NOPE I says. I have yet to see one that looks even close to something I would use. It's my name that will be repeated when someone asks "Who Done That?". I'd rather make the customer a little mad than send out something that just aint mine. I always pull out the portfolio and show em what can be done, and nine times out of ten, they usually let me handle it. For the one that doesn't, hey, no hard feelings, I just aint gonna do it.

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John Deaton III
Deaton Signs&Grafix
109 N. Cumberland Ave.,Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-573-9101

johnd3rd@kih.net
http://www.angelfire.com/ky2/dsigns

Posted by Bill Jarvis (Member # 1754) on :

My father in law has a simple solution to this dilemma. He has a sign posted in his shop stating.

I DESIGN IT: $50
YOU DESIGN IT: $200

seems to work pretty well.
ha

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Bill Jarvis
Rookie432@AOL.com

"A customer is someone who deals with you. A GOOD customer is someone who refuses to deal with anyone else. Make GOOD customers."

Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :

well i usually take what they got....work what i think it should look like into their design...and tell them i been doin this for 30 yrs....and depending on their business...i ask if the would want someone whos never done their type work...to do a job for them? no more problems...ace as for doin race cars...i do a 3 number, 3 color, 2 sponsors for $125.00 with paint(start to finish 3-4 hours)and i get very little work...the vinyl shops around here give away the letterin as sponsors...and everybody that got a vinyl cutter ...wants their name on a stock car....

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joe pribish-A SIGN MINT
2811 longleaf Dr.
pensacola, fl 32526
850-944-5060
BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND

[This message has been edited by old paint (edited November 02, 2000).]

Posted by Ryan Ursta (Member # 1738) on :

Tough break that theyre closing down it was a nice track ..lots of fun.

Tough break on your racecar lettering.... I make $250-$300 on a micro and $375 on full size sprints. Of course we have tons of racers in my area ... and not a lot of sign shops.I think maybe next year ill go mobile and throw all the equipment in a van and do it right at the track! I know one guy that pays 2000 to have his car done every year .... his name is rex king and he has foghorn leghorn on the side of his car.......talk about some dough.

Race cars are my ultimate substrate. They are my favorite thing to do. When a new customer comes to me i say "I don't know how you run ..... but the s.o.b.'s gonna look fast when i get done with her!" I take time to make sure all the sponsors fit with the theme of the racecar design. Race cars are the greatest thing for advertisement also. They are displayed to a lot of people and they get me a lot of business.

Ace I live in sharpsville Pa. Near Sharon and New castle (northwestern pa). I live by the infamous tracks of Sharon Speedway, Mercer Raceway Park, And Learnerville Speedway. These are all great tracks and i go just about every week. Cant wait till next year
itll be my first season in my own car. Im runnin a micro sprint. (hey what a write off!).

Ps. Give me an email if you guys ever need anything ill be glad to help another pa sign guy! thunderstruc@hotmail.com

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Ryan Ursta
Ursta Graphics
27 West Shenango St.
Sharpsville Pa. 16150
"letters of Recommendation"

Posted by dispatch (Member # 1053) on :

I guess it depends on whether you are selling them your services as an artist or as a business ( yes I realize that most of you are both!)

As an artist, you are expected to provide a high level of artistic value in your work.
You would be expected to ensure that the finished product met your standards artisticly.

As a business that makes signs, your customer expects a sign "the way they want it". They want a certain function and price.

Somewhere in the middle is what usualy happens. If you have the skill and clientel to support yourself as an artist, great. If you need to pay the bills by keeping the customer happy -doing it their way, well, that is the way it needs to be, to support your artistic efforts.

Some customers understand the value of consuting a sign expert, and that while the job may cost more, it will produce more income for them in the end. Others will just go to the cheapest source, or the one that is willing to do it "their" way. There's usualy someone around that will fill their "needs".

Sign making / Sign Art are not the same.

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Bob Sheers
TechniService MidAtlantic
dispatch@bellatlantic.net

Posted by Daniel R. Perez (Member # 1585) on :

Hey Ace,
I tell my prospective client that home designs are welcome as long as they do them on butcher paper or a paper sack. That way, when I look at it with them, anything I do on drafting paper or my computer paper will automatically look ten times better right from the start. I'm not joking either.
Hey Ryan, I've done a few race cars myself, allhand lettered and no vinyl, it was lots of! I'm from a small farming community, and the good 'ol boys here turn a race-car-painting into an all day party, (shrimp on the barbie included).

There is nothing new under the sun. What will be has already been and what has been will be again.
Daniel R. Perez
Daniez Dzines
Fresno, CA
daniez2001@yahoo.com

[This message has been edited by Daniez (edited November 02, 2000).]

Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :

hey ryan....i was escorted outa mercer...by 2 state troopers, and dropped at the county line and told never to come back....(little domestic problem)iam from down near little washington pa. and iam doing the mobile thing, gota chevy step van, 6.4kw gen, roof air...and iam gona be a totally mobile shop, we got a couple race tracks here in the deep south...marinas, truck stops on I-10....should do well..with being paint and vinyl.....ill keep ya posted...amd send ya pic of the truck..

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joe pribish-A SIGN MINT
2811 longleaf Dr.
pensacola, fl 32526
850-944-5060
BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND

[This message has been edited by old paint (edited November 02, 2000).]

Posted by Dave Ginley (Member # 1723) on :

Thanks guys...for all the input...I could have handled the situation better...I've been down that road before and just didn't stick to my guns this time...shame on me..

Ryan...we've raced in Sharon in '94...there was a go-cart street race if I remember correctly it was $2000. to win with pay back to fifth...out of about 75 carts Eric qualified and finished sixth...it was a good time...

We sponsor one sprint car.. the guy that owns it also owns a trucking company and keeps us busy doing semi's...the others we do run about the same as Ryan's 250-300 for a micro and 375 plus for a sprint or late model...I don't go out of my way to have my name on a race car...we did letter the Pace car in 98 and again in 2000 but that came from the dealer who was giving them the car..they paid me and gave me a spot on the car..I actually tried not to do it but they insisted..

Don't get me wrong I do like doing them but I have to eat...

Good luck with your new adventure Ryan..Eric and I (& mom)had a great time racing go-carts up and down the east coast for 7 years and then 3 years in a pro-stock locally...Eric is waiting to see what happens at Selinsgrove for next year...he has a few good sponsors lined up and is hoping to field a limited sprint..we still have 2 358's in the garage and the one guy we sponsor has a car for him so we'll see what happens....

likewise Ryan if we can ever help you out let us know...well I better get back to work...

Dave

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Ace of Signs
Selinsgrove, Pa.
www.aceofsigns.com

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