I've been reading your posts on pricing, however I haven't seen anything directly related to sandblasted sign pricing. I know the little sign pricing book rates approximately $90-$110 per square foot on redwood. How close do you guys stick to this or is it just a reference point? Also how about HDU and special carving work. I currently have a price structure but was curious if I was on track with "the experts".
I haven't been retailing these but wholesaling to sign suppliers in my general area.
Bill Jarvis
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Bill Jarvis
Rookie432@AOL.com
"A customer is someone who deals with you. A GOOD customer is someone who refuses to deal with anyone else. Make GOOD customers."
I price by the individual job, not by square foot. It would be pretty easy to lose your shirt on a sign that had 300 letters as opposed to a sign that had 8 letters when pricing by square foot.
A 4x8 sign, depending on design complexity, is going to take 3 to 4 solid days of labor.
That's $1500 to $2000. Add materials and profit, design fees, permits and installation fees and your up between $2500 and $3000
If you have to figure by square foot then
$3000 divided by 32 sq feet is about the same figure you came up with.
Some guys are doing sandblasted signs for $30 per hour shop rate, with no design fee figured in or profit. Point is, what you should charge and what you can charge will depend on if the customer is "shopping" around. If the customer don't know the their are jerks out their bottom dollar pricing, then I guess you can add a $1000 to to the job.
That brings the final price to $3999.99 with bank financing available and low interests rates, 90 days same as cash!
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Go Get 'Em..... :)
AKA Raptorman on #Letterheads mIRC Chat
Draper The Signmaker
Bloomington Illinois USA
Proud 2-yr. $upporter of this Web Site (May 1999-May 2001)
As your questions suggests, pricing signs can be a complex issue. The challenge is to find the magic number, the price that satisfies both parties. It is a price that you feel includes a reasonable profit and your customer is satisfied that his advertising dollars were well spent.
It's already been pointed out that a square foot price can be dangerous, and I think anyone who has spent some time in the business would agree, a square foot price is an awful big ball park at best. There is also the suggestion that a time and materials formula works best. I think this is a good staring point. You are here to earn a living, in order to do that you have to know how much martial you will need, how much that will cost you and how long will it take to perform the task. The better you understand these things the closer your estimates will be. Like everything in life these are acquired skills, you will spend some time being more wrong than right. The best way to acquire these skills, is to KEEP GOOD RECORDS! You must know the exact material cost on any given job. Keep a time card next to each project in the shop, anytime somebody works on this job have them log the time and the task performed. You may be surprised at just how long it takes to do certain things. Armed with this information you will begin to refine your estimating down to a science. With regard to HUD, when using Sign•FoamII, your machining and fabrication times will become extremely reliable. The constancy of Sign•FoamII really sets itself apart from redwood or cedar in that every time you estimate your fabrication time in wood you are counting on mother nature to cooperate.
Now that your using the most reliable materials available, and you have several time cards filled out and know exactly how efficiently your shop runs, your time and materials equations will be a great starting point for your price. You may be saying "what do you mean starting point?". Well, I will tell you. You guys, (and ladies) are artists, and the work you perform is by nature artistic. Granted not every project is a masterpiece, but each project does contain some artistic value. Value is really what a good price is all about. The 'Mona Lisa' is not valued by the cost of the paint and hours that were taken to paint it. Like any painting, your signs have an intrinsic artistic value that goes beyond any time and material equation. The better job you do as an artist the better the sign will look when finished, a better looking sign will attract more customers than a crapy one and that's what your customer is paying for.
Don't get caught in a the T&M trap. If you have a redwood sign that you determine to sell for $3999.00, and you make that same sign from Sign•FoamII. All of a sudden your material cost have dropped 30%. There is no trips to the lumber yard and time spent cutting, gluing, clamping, and plaining a blank. So your labor time has been cut dramatically. Also what was going to take you two hours to sandblast is now done in 30 minutes. So now do you lower you price by the $1000.00? Or does did that value of the sign actually remain the same or maybe it even increase because of the superior longevity of Sign•FoamII. By knowing exactly what your doing and by using the best materials for the job, and by recognizing the value of your work you have increased your profit by $1000.00 and you can put that in the bank or use it in a bid situation to lower the price in order to secure the job.
Remember the more you know about your business, your trade, and your market place the better decisions you can make. Just my two cents.
Joe
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Thanks, Joe
Sign•FoamII
Dana Point, CA, USA
The old way of sandblasting took a lot of time. I have developed a new system that actually makes doing these things fun...and quick. You never touch a brush, you still use paint and everything comes out perfect. Anybody who is interested can e-mail me for the details. We used to spend about three to four days on a 3' X 6' s/b sign. Now, the hardest part is gluing up the panels and that usually takes about three hours total. The rest is so easy it boggles the mind.
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Louis A. Lazarus
Milt's Sign Service, Inc.
20 So. Linden Ave. #5B
650-588-0490
fontking1a@aol.com
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Dave Sherby
"Sandman"
SherWood Sign & Graphic Design
Crystal Falls, MI 49920
906-875-6201
ICQ: 21604027
sherwood@up.net
