Greetings all Esteemed and Highly Knowledgeable Sign Brethren and Sisthren(I had to coin that word because I know Adrienne and some of the other 'usual suspects' will check in) ;-)
I have to price out a Window Splash. I did an archive search and a previous discussion was all about pricing per hour - does anyone use a pricing formula by square feet or by number of window panels?
I'm pretty fast on the draw but since this is my first splash I want to take my time and not price by the hour.
It's 7 window panels, each 42" wide. I'm going to do a Nick Barber-style splash advertising their store hours.
The customer will want a winter splash in late November and will expect me to remove the first splash. What do you charge to remove a splash?
Since this will lead to repeat work with this customer (a national chain), I want to make sure I don't charge too little and then get that sickening feeling in my gut when I know I didn't get enough, nor do I want to bowl them over with an outrageous price. This store is in a county where the cost of living and everything else, is very high...
Peter Manzolillo Jet Signs Long Island, NY jet22@mailcity.com
Posted by Adrienne Pereira (Member # 1046) on :
Ahhhh, that sickening feeling, I know it well........why just today in fact........ (I don't want to talk about it) ------------------------ OK, this is how I do it...everyone likes to price it the way that works best for them, so you can figure it out anyway you want to. I have a minimum of $150, I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area so prices are high here too. The minimum includes a basic message (i.e."GOING OUT OF BUSINESS!"; SOFA SALE!"; SUMMER SPECIAL"; NEW YEAR CLEARANCE", ETC.)as well as a reasonable amount of subcopy (i.e."Everything must go!"; "2 Piece Set"; "Children's and Women's swimsuits"; "No resonable offer refused"etc.)Qualifiers, disclaimers are also included, (i.e.: "While supplies last; see inside for details; plus tax; doesn't include batteries, etc.) I tell them the min is $150 but that the average job runs $200-$350 (it depends on how big it is too). I've never found sq footage pricing or 'by the window' pricing to work for me...I have a feel for what I think it's worth it for me. I DO find, however that I often find the hours for the money I make seems to come out to at least $75 an hour or more and this works ok for me. Remember it's a temporary ad so you don't have to make it a science project (that's what my boyfriend tells me anyway...) Have fun, play with it and listen to something lively when you do it!! Take pictures and show us how you did!
Good luck! Adrienne "Mistress of Glass" (haha, how pretencious is THAT??!!)
------------------ Adrienne Morgan Splash Signs www.splashsigns.com "Rainkatt' on mirc chat
A PROUD sponsor of this amazing site...U can B 2!! www.letterheads.com/supporters "If it wasn't for signs, you wouldn't know where you were!!"
42 ALta Loma Benicia, CA 94510 707-746-7847 (shop) 707-550-4553 (voicemail) adrienne@splashsigns.com
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
REMOVE the old sign???? Not me! I tell them to hire a window washer...they cost less than sign painters...and besides...the only way that I remove signs is with a BIG hammer! Prices...Adrienne has it pretty well nailed!
------------------ Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA (714) 521-4810 ICQ # 330407 "SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Brushasaurus on Chat
Gladly supporting this BB !
[This message has been edited by Si Allen (edited October 02, 2000).]
Posted by Adrienne Pereira (Member # 1046) on :
Oh, I forgot to answer about removals....I USED to remove most paintings when i redid the job, but stopped that service long ago....just not worth the trouble, for a few, very few special clients I remove the old paint, I usually have Jim do it and pay him 25-50 bucks which I also charge the customer for. I no longer do it for free under any circumstance. Thankyou... Adrienne 'Mistress of Glass"
------------------ Adrienne Morgan Splash Signs www.splashsigns.com "Rainkatt' on mirc chat
A PROUD sponsor of this amazing site...U can B 2!! www.letterheads.com/supporters "If it wasn't for signs, you wouldn't know where you were!!"
42 ALta Loma Benicia, CA 94510 707-746-7847 (shop) 707-550-4553 (voicemail) adrienne@splashsigns.com
Posted by Rich Stebbing (Member # 368) on :
Price per panel,...mmmmm, $25 - $50, it's a tough call, just like most signwork, but once you can gage your speed/time you could find a "number" that works for you , especially when giving quotes. But beware! Are there bushes to contend with, will you need a dropcloth, how high-up do you have to go. I use a rolling drywall scaffold for jobs that will allow it, boy you can cut down your moves to 1/3 of that with a ladder. I usually use a 4' x 12' dropcloth on the job as it looks like I care ( I do). I also have a scrub brush for sidewalk spills etc.(they happen). I will clean windows as well, as it does promote the "take it off and put a new up" attitude. Yeah the window cleaning is a bit messy, be prepared for it and you can do better hourly than you can painting!, although I don't promote it ( the messy-thing).Usually the window cleaning takes me anywhere from 45min to a 1 1/2hrs. Once you have an established "window-promo" customer, and they get their desired results, they're hooked! I have customers that "rave" dollar for dollar nothing beats a good promo. By taking care of window cleaning, and being sensitive to cleaniness on jobsite, along with a "great promo" it will ensure a repeat. A great place to experiment with letter styles, cartooning, killer-layouts etc., and best of all "having fun".
------------------ Rich Stebbing #945 RichSigns Rohnert Park CA
Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on :
I do a lota windows .. actually one of my favourite pastimes Good money too. Adrienne has the price structure right and Si hit the nail on the head ... no cleaning! Tell them they can buy a broad blade scraper at K-Mart for $5!!! If it is an on-going contract ... don't underprice to start with! You are locked in, even if they up the anti with more text. Figure out what one is really worth to you allowing for travel, and especially drying time between coats etc ... add a bit and stick with that.! They are a dynamite form of advertising! If your customer cringes at the price ... just compare it to the cost of a newspaper advertisment for one day! Gets them everytime! Go for it ... they are fun
------------------ Bushie aka Jon Butterworth Jonsigns old signwriters never retire ... they just fade into the background! Toowoomba,Queensland Australia.
Posted by Gailforce (Member # 152) on :
getting primed for christmas windows, i'm going to jump in.
i too have $150 minimum. most christmas windows in my small town run about $175- $225.
cleaning is easy. i use acrylic paints. when i spray it with window cleaner to soften it, then use a razor knife, it all comes off in sheets. i charge $20 or so. not too many people ask for it and i don't go out of my way to offer it though.
we can clean a $200 window off in 15 or 20 minutes, so i've got no big problem doing it. used to be my hubby would do it. now we're both so busy, i don't offer and i'll probably say $25 now.
i would never be able to judge the correct price before doing my first splash and i wouldn't want to be on the hook for the same price continuously....my first ones were cheaper, cuz i didn't know what i was doing, or how long it would take.
3 years of experience = more money and ability to estimate properly.
have you done ANY windows? maybe you should. do your living room window if you have to.
good luck
------------------ free to paint, day and night :) Gailforce Airbrush & Design Squamish, BC, Canada www.gailforce.homestead.com
Posted by Tony Segale (Member # 1380) on :
ok, I'll put my two cents in...
$200. minimum is what I've quoted in the last few weeks and ended up with four window jobs. I feel very confident with my layout skills to provide the client with a super ad. No, I don't clean the windows as it takes time away from producing other quality signs, but I do carry the name of a full time window cleaner who is experienced in removing my jobs. As Rich stated, bring a drop cloth, or as I do, blue painters tape and mask paper, 6 inch width is sufficient. I don't paint as many promo ads as I used to as I am quite busy with gold leaf windows and custom wood signs. But there is nothing like being out doors in a high visibilty area, letting it all hang outand dazzling passerbys with your creative skills...I seem to always end up handing out at least three or four biz cards and picking up new customers who didn't know skilled sign artists who could swing a brush still exist!
------------------ Tony Segale Segale Fine Art & Gold Leaf Sign Co
"Creativity is a tribal experience...tribal elders will initiate the gifted youngsters who cross their path" Julie Cameron, "The Artists Way"
Posted by Tony Segale (Member # 1380) on :
I forgot to ask you to remember when you figure your quote, don't forget time it takes to load your paints, travel to the site and come back and wash those brushes!
------------------ Tony Segale Segale Fine Art & Gold Leaf Sign Co
"Creativity is a tribal experience...tribal elders will initiate the gifted youngsters who cross their path" Julie Cameron, "The Artists Way"
Posted by Adrienne Pereira (Member # 1046) on :
Good ideas Tony! I had a 125 min for years, brought it up to 150 a couple of yrs ago, but I think I might go for that 200! After all with the price of gas the way it is, and all the driving I do, it doesn't seem unreasonable. Especially here. You gotta remember my vehicle maintenence, oil changes, (OH! gotta do that TODAY!) repairs, not just the supplies. And your right, I don't take into concideration my time just getting all that together. Equiptment costs, I'm heading up to Napa this morning to pick up a used scaffold, Rich and I had a lengthy discussionabout the benifits of having a small scaffold when doing windows....now that I have used them I can't believe I've gone this long without my own, it really saves your feet on a big job! But.....before we get ahead of ourselves, better give it a try first and see if Splashes are what you wanna do. I've done splashes only for 15 yrs. up till now, and it's made me a living, if you have a lot of energy and are well organized and highly motivated you can make a GOOD living at it. OK, well I gotta run, have a 'Fall Seed Sale' to do today...film at 11..... A Here's a page i put up with some tips on painting your first splash, hope it is of some help: http://www.splashsigns.com/TIPS.HTML
------------------ Adrienne Morgan Splash Signs www.splashsigns.com "Rainkatt' on mirc chat
A PROUD sponsor of this amazing site...U can B 2!! www.letterheads.com/supporters "If it wasn't for signs, you wouldn't know where you were!!"
42 ALta Loma Benicia, CA 94510 707-746-7847 (shop) 707-550-4553 (voicemail) adrienne@splashsigns.com
Posted by Gailforce (Member # 152) on :
i think y'all are right. i'm going to do a $200 minimum as well.....gas is a killer now!
------------------ free to paint, day and night :) Gailforce Airbrush & Design Squamish, BC, Canada www.gailforce.homestead.com
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
i always priced by the sq.ft...because window are different sizes....20 sq. ft., or a 4'x 5'...x $3.00 s.f.= $60.00...it is a window splash...at $4.00 a sq. its $80.00 and most windows that you do are...much bigger...so your hourly rate is still covered..i do it cause i can remember what price i quoted...if the tell me the size......
------------------ joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-944-5060 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND
Posted by Gilead Stellar (Member # 158) on :
I know a guy in Phoenix who charges 75 dollars a panel no matter what. Seems to work for him he's always busy. I charge 5 bucks a square foot with extra charges for long drives, standing on a ladder etc. This means I make less money than my friend on the small windows and more money on the large ones. My friend does all corporate chains and I seem to do all Ma & Pa shops. I do a lot of small splashes for 40 - 80 bucks. I'll clean the old paint off the window if I'm replacing it, but I don't just come back and clean it off when they're done with it.
OP, is that $3 a SqF for highly detailed or simple plain lettering, one color, two, 3 or more? What if the area is high? what if there are bushes or other obsticals in the way? Is it still $3 a Sqf?? If someone asked me to do a 10 ft sq area in high detail, and I have to climb over a bunch of bushes to get to it, 30 bucks isn't even worth getting up in the morning.... So, if you have to have several sq ft prices, it gets too confusing for me...I just size it up, figure what it's gonna take me in effort and time, and charge them what makes me smile. I still think you have to have a minimum. Gilead, what are ya doing giving away your work??? Your art is worth WAY more than 30-80 bucks!! Don't do anything for less than a hundred!! Hey, I'll be in Pheonix on my way back from Commerce for a couple of hours, wanna meet me for coffee at the airport? A
------------------ Adrienne Morgan Splash Signs www.splashsigns.com "Rainkatt' on mirc chat
A PROUD sponsor of this amazing site...U can B 2!! www.letterheads.com/supporters "If it wasn't for signs, you wouldn't know where you were!!"
42 ALta Loma Benicia, CA 94510 707-746-7847 (shop) 707-550-4553 (voicemail) adrienne@splashsigns.com
