I have a blasted HDU sign i would like to guild. This will be my first attempt at this. And will be used as a sample, if all goes well. I did a search on this site and found alot of info, making me more confused than ever. All the different options, and opinions. The raised portions are smooth and painted, should i paint them a gold color first? Also what type of leaf should i use? I know some is backed, (thicker) is this easier to use? What about the size, is the 12 hour better? Will the leaf stick to painted background areas? Any special tools needed? I know theres alot of questions here, but would hate to waste the sign and a book of leaf not knowing whats up. Thanks for any suggestions. Brad
Surface gilding is not a complicated process. If you can find a copy of the March issue of Sign Builder Illustrated Magazine, it has a step-by-step article I wrote on my 13-year-old grandson doing a surface project.
If you go to the Suppliers' page here on the Bullboard, and click on "Esoteric Sign Supply" you will find an absolute gold mine. (No pun intended). A call to Rick "Daddy Fine Gold" Glawson at Esoteric should give you the answers to any gold leaf question you will ever have. Rick also carries a complete line of gold supplies at reasonable prices and is always willing to help you along with any project.
You might also see if you can get a copy of Kent Smith's book "Gold Leaf Techniques". It's kind of the bible of gilding.
------------------ Jerry Mathel Jerry Mathel Signs Grants Pass, Oregon signs@grantspass.com
[This message has been edited by jmathel (edited September 23, 2000).]
Posted by Kent Smith (Member # 251) on :
Thanks for the plug Jerry.
Too much emphasis has been placed recently on the type of material that is used for a base for gilding. That is not the issue. A smooth surface is the issue. Gold is so malleable that it will expand and contract well on almost any surface. That is why it has been used for centuries as a final non-fading covering and color. Color underneath is only an issue if you expect a lot of scratches. Prime well and buff smooth with 600 grit paper and water. Apply the size evenly and the rest is standard gilding technique.
------------------ Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio Greeley, Colorado, USA kent@smithsignstudio.com
Posted by Jack Davis (Member # 1408) on :
Brad, I'm fairly new at this myself, but will offer a few pointers. First; prepare the area to be gilded by, filling solid with an HDU filler(no hdu showing through) sand through at least 400. I then back paint the entire sign in the colors that will prevail. I mask the outer limits of the gild area with pinstiping mask from a auto paint store. I resand the paint to about 600, and then apply the gild prime which is a school bus yellow and thick, as smoothly as I can with full coverage. I then wait a few hours of overnight and sand it smooth, especially over the edges of the plastic pin stripe mask, as I don't want to leave any outer ridges on the gilded areas. Then I clean well and apply talc all over the surrounds leaving the mask in position. I then apply the size, which is a sticky varnish, (I use the exterior quick size) In about 30 minutes to an hour you usually can begin. I only size what I feel I can accomplish in about 45 minutes. In your hot climate, it will go fast I'm sure. The patent gold you will like much the best (Italian Gold), I'm pretty sure. Your gilding techniques will have to be acquired, but their will be instructions for that. The real trick is to not guild to early, because it will show up dull as it is burnished into "a mud", but gild before the size dries, or it won't attach well. You can and will be repairing many voids after you finish, until you get really good, and then even some after that. I wait for about a day to burnish it with the provided cotton, but I'm sure that their is a better material for this, as you are basically doing a polish or smoothing of the surface. After you finish you can remove the stuck in gold from the paint in places with mineral spirits, but don't touch any of the gilded area with it, as it will quickly remove it too. A Q-tip should work well. I then carry mine out into the bright sunlight and look for voids that I couldn't identify under work lights (they're there- they will look flat). I mark the spots with small chips of post-its sticky edge and re-gild these areas...... Summary: Use patent gold for ease,Smooth surface, the mask for nice edges(sand edges), timing on the gild, wait for the final burnish (you will have to lightly burnish during application, to get the gold to adhere) and mineral spirits carefully for the cleanup. I'm not an expert, but I'm having some pretty nice results.... p.s. Thanks to Rick Sacks in Calif. for getting me to leave as many facets in my carving as I can, as they reflect light a lot nicer, and leave the work looking much more hand crafted.......Bronzeo
------------------ Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com bronzeo@prodigy.net http://www.imagemakerart.com
Posted by Bruce Deveau (Member # 1600) on :
hello Brad, I'm sure Kent Smith is too modest to promote his book, but is by far the best authority. I've been gilding for over 20 years, and still refer back to my original copy. Buy the book, spend time preparing, resist the fear that something will go wrong (it might at first, so accept it),and experience the sheer joy of gilding. Nothing like it.
------------------ Bruce Deveau 331 Main St. Amesbury, Ma USA 01913 pop04667@tiac.net
Posted by Brad Funk (Member # 1351) on :
Hey, Thanks for the info!! I guilded the sign on Saturday. It turned out pretty well for my first time. A couple things though. The first small section, i used no talc, and the leaf stuck pretty bad to the painted background in some spots (good thing its only a practice piece). For the rest of the sign i used talc, no problems with the leaf sticking. But now the talc wont come off completly from the background The sign is blasted without a grain effect and painted black. The first area is glossy black, and the rest is somewhat dull. I didn't realize the leaf would stick to the background, or i would have powdered the whole sign from the start. Anyways, i think i did alright for the first try. I will do this again soon. Thanks guys for your replys. Brad
"Mark Fair is a Proud Contributor to The Letterhead Site!"
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
Sticking on backgrounds is the biggest hassle in gilding, especially on a smooth glossy painted surface. Talc works OK on some surfaces, but for slow drying backgrounds, use an egg size. Egg size is stunningly simple. Take one raw egg, crack and drop into a quart of cold water. pour the water and egg through a coffee filter. The filtered water is now laden with albumin which is dissolved egg white. With a new clean brush, wet the entire surface of the sign, and let dry; you can do so twice. When dry, size your letters. Gild when size is ready, then, take a sponge and clean water and wash the sign. Any gold sticking where it oughtened will wash right off, without taking the gloss off the background paint (like thinner will). Don't know how well it works on a rough blasted background, but on smooth grounds it's the best. If you still have some sticking, use naptha to clean off instead of thinner; it doesn't leave dull spots.
------------------ "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Raoul Duke (Hunter S. Thompson)
Cam Finest Kind Signs 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988"
Posted by Valerie Connot (Member # 76) on :
Brad, I found the best way for me to eliminate the sticking problem is to use a raw potato. What you do is slice the potato and rub the surface of the sign with it.
It puts a starchy finish on the sign that doesn't bother the finish and, best of all, wipes right of when you are done.
And of course I got this wonderful tip from Gold Leaf Techniques, the third edition, page 118.(Right above where it says the best way is with an egg size, which I've never tried). But I'm sure Kent has kept this tip in the latest edition as well (Just not sure which page it will be).
Have fun!
------------------ Valerie Connot DOA Flatliners North Wales, PA
Posted by Jerry Mathel (Member # 526) on :
Another old time method of keeping the leaf from sticking to the background is to coat it with Milk of Magnesia. OK! No smart remarks! At any rate it works quite well. Just wipe on a thin layer, when it dries, pounce on your pattern, and brush the size right over the MoM and gild as usual. When you have outlined, clear coated, whatever, just rinse the residue off with clear water. If it's a smooth background, you can usually just wipe away the dried MoM with a soft cloth.
------------------ Jerry Mathel Jerry Mathel Signs Grants Pass, Oregon signs@grantspass.com
The sign is blasted without a grain effect and painted black. The first area is glossy black, and the rest is somewhat dull. I didn't realize the leaf would stick to the background, or i would have powdered the whole sign from the start. Anyways, i think i did alright for the first try. I will do this again soon. Thanks guys for your replys. Brad