The Letterville BullBoard: "Tool Time: Stabilos`"

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Posted by Richard Bustamante (Member # 370) on :

Probibly one of the most important tools in the shop.

The wide`spread use of stabilos in the sign field has prompted me to post. I take it that most of you letterheads, pinheads, and graphic artists use them, but, which ones?

I've worked in many sign shops, and found the most common stabilos are the white, and blue ones. White for dark backgrounds, and glass, and blue for everything else, even an occasional window.

Stabilo claims to write on anything, and up to this point, I tend to agree with them. Substraits like paper,(poster) glass, plastic, and metal are no problem for this most versital writing insterment. Which one do you use?

Stabilo has a few "models" or "line" of erasable marking products. (pencils) The most common used in shops are the 8041 "All" version. It has a very soft tip, and goes on real thick, depending on how hard you push. They're perfect for hand lay`out. An X-acto works fine for sharpening.

Do you use another type?

I was in a drug store, and saw some Stabilos at the check`out counter. Well naturally, I pulled one out, and started writing on their cash register, which was plastic. Soon I found out, that these Stabilos weren't the "All" type. Oops! It was the Stabilo Boss "dry" 91/31 One I've never seen, so I bought it. $1.59 US.

Tips
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Never leave your stabilo in temptures above 90* degrees, or in direct sunlight. They melt fast.

Rotate the stabilo in your hand when your drawing a line. This will keep the point sharp.

Other colors like red, yellow, and green can sometimes stain your background.(white MDO)

To increase it's life, refridgerate. A cold Stabilo tip is hard when it's cold.

What are your thoughts?

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Richard Bustamante
12646 E. American Ave.
Del Rey, Ca. 93616
e-mail: signwiz@valleyone.net
www.studio-b.net

Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :

My kit stays in the back of my truck at all times. This time of year the first thing I head for when arriving at the jobsite is the refrigerator

If I know I'm going somewhere that doesn't have a fridge, the stabillos ride in the A/C vents in my truck. I keep a Koh-I-Noor sharpener in my pocket, a sharp one works great on stabillos.

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George Perkins
Millington,TN.
goatwell@ionictech.com

"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"

http://goatwell.tripod.com

Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :

ive alway used an 8008 but find them hard to get....its a lead pencil i think it writes on anything but looks to be graphite....for most other stuff i use those china markers..

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joe pribish-A SIGN MINT
2811 longleaf Dr.
pensacola, fl 32526
850-944-5060
BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND

Posted by Jerry Mathel (Member # 526) on :

Yep! Stabilos it is... The white and blue are the only ones that work. The other colors are too hard to get back off, especially the graphite ones. Richard, you are also right that you don't want to leave them on the dashboard in the hot sun, get them wet, or put them in the same kit compartment with a leaky bottle of Rapid-Tac. They also make a real mess if you leave them in your shirt pocket and run them through the wash.

While we are on the subject of pencils, how many of you other old timers remember "hectograph" pencils. You could trace the existing lettering on a sign, re-coat it, and the pencil lines would bleed through the paint so you could see the layout.

Jerry Mathel
Jerry Mathel Signs
Grants Pass, Oregon
signs@grantspass.com

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Posted by Rich Stebbing (Member # 368) on :

White,Blue,......and Orange are found to handle all of my layout needs. For window promos it would be White Chalk, although i also carry a couple of colored ones when confronted with white mini-blinds, and of course Charcoal for laying-out on top of White Latex Backgrounds,Walls,Posterboard,Butcher Paper etc. For a "symmetrical" striping design or to create a straight layout line where I do not want stabilo marks I will use fine-line tape to set desired line or center mark,I will then pounce lightly over tape, remove tape and "ta-da" have a nice clean line to follow.

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Rich Stebbing #945
RichSigns
Rohnert Park CA

Posted by Mark Fair Signs (Member # 289) on :

Stabilos are my choice of layout tool.

great tip george on stickin' em in the air-conditioning vent(it doesn't suprise me cause george perkins kicks ass when it comes to a brush and paint!)

hey jerry, i must be one of them old timers! LOL
i was a billboard painter and we called them
"indelible pencils"

pounce the pattern and take a yardstick and redraw with the "indelible pencil".
then spot coat the letter color and cut your background around it.

where the heck can ya get those nw anyway, or do they still make em?

great post richard!

mark

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Mark Fair

Mark Fair Signs
http://www.markfair.com

flash site... http://www.markfair.com/flash.html
I Don't Work... I dis-PLAY

2162 Mt. Meigs Road
Montgomery, Alabama 36107
334-262-4449

mark@markfair.com

"Mark Fair is a Proud Contributor to The Letterhead Site!"

Posted by CJ Allan (Member # 52) on :

Like Joe, I've been using the 8008 for over 20 years........they're great for the laying on of the intricate scrollwork on firearms, knives, and even highly polised aluminun and stainlees bike and auto parts. And they don't melt......

For paint, it's always the trusty white and blues or sometimes blacks..........Ya really want to screw up a job......use red on a white paint job ....hahaha, Toooomuch fun....!

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CJ Allan
CJs Engraving & Designing
Hazel, Ky.
270-492-6209
cjallan@cjs-engraving.com
www.cjs-engraving.com

A Proud "Professional Guest" of this site!!;)

Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :

I also use Stabollo's. I've seen several shops over the years that use felt tip pens with a type ink that washes off and leaves no stain.

Jerry, I only have a couple of the old indelibles remaining. Several years ago,I was told of some re released through DickBlick. I ordered 6 dozen, and found them not to work nearly as well as the old ones.

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The SignShop
Mendocino, California
"Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"

Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :

Stabilo is the answer to most..
The Blue and the White because they don't bleed on most areas and the Graphite to work on the surfaces that you need fine lines on..
But have any of you and I know there is a few..Heard of the 165 # 03 mediium pencil?
It's used for underlaying graphics with a flat coat over it and it bleeds through.. I have used them in the past and are great for knowing were the lettering or graphics are placed.... They are like a graphite pencil but when you rollpaint or Primer over them they bleed a fine purple line through the layers!!!!
If someone has a dealer where they can be bought,it will be more then apprecicatted...
Thanks....
Raven/2000

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Raven/2000
Airbrushed by Raven
Lower sackville N.S.
deveausdiscovery@sprint.ca

Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :

I used Stabillos for nearly 20 years and one day I got turned on to Pentel "Sign Pens" they are water soluable,leave no residue or build up under the paint and never stain the substraite.

That was 15 years or so ago and the only stabillo in my shop these days is a stub of a white stabillo I keep for working on dark and black surfaces.

The "sign Pen" comes in a lot of different colors red, black, blue, green, etc.but the one I use is called "Ocre" and will mark on any color but black or the darkest of colors.

And it never melts in a hot kit or on the dash of the truck.One pen (used everyday)
will last me 6 months or better.

Everyone I have turned on to these tell me they love 'em.I hope some of them see this post and reply.

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Monte Jumper
SIGNLanguage/Norman.Okla.

[This message has been edited by Monte Jumper (edited August 03, 2000).]

Posted by Mark Fair Signs (Member # 289) on :

where the hell is Terrance Teague when you need him?
I tried to call him on the telephone today, has the guy made so much money he has retired?

good tip monte!(no pun intended)

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Mark Fair

Mark Fair Signs
http://www.markfair.com

flash site... http://www.markfair.com/flash.html
I Don't Work... I dis-PLAY

2162 Mt. Meigs Road
Montgomery, Alabama 36107
334-262-4449

mark@markfair.com

"Mark Fair is a Proud Contributor to The Letterhead Site!"

[This message has been edited by Mark Fair Signs (edited August 03, 2000).]

Posted by Mike Languein (Member # 319) on :

I use the white Stabilos on dark surfaces, used to use China Markers on most stuff but you have to wash it off with thinner so the paint has to be completely dry. Now I use Pentel Sign Pens, but I use the grey ones. The only surface where I've had trouble with them is gloss show card board. Buffalo felt pens also make two shades of grey that work well, very light in color for rough sketching and a little darker for fine tuning. Water cleanup.

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"If it isn't fun, why do it?"
Signmike@aol.com
Mike Languein
Doctor of Letters
BS, MS, PhD
___________________

You know what BS is, MS is More of the Same, and it's Piled Higher and Deeper here

Posted by Jon Peterman (Member # 528) on :

hey jerry i believe tattooists use hectograph pencils in marking their subjects
check with your local tattooist for more info (we got two here in town)

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jon peterman
109 mardan dr
grants pass, or.
97527
signjon@cpros.com
a.k.a. dc-62
s.s.n. upon request
drivers license also available

Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :

I quit using stabilos the day Monte sent me that felt pen of his. Thanks pal.

I liked the idea so much that I went shopping in my area. I found something I liked even more.

Staedtler Lumocolor non-permanent, F (for fine), black, #316. They are meant for overhead projectors.

You always have a sharp tip, they don't stain, they don't melt, and the drawing line doesn't bubble up and half fade away. The ONLY drawback is that they dry out quick if you forget the cap, and the caps tend to slip off easily after heavy use. I also noticed they're refillable. Never even noticed that before.

I still do carry the odd stabilo around. My choice brand is:

Schwan All Stabilo, #8041, blue, green and white.

The only time I use them is if my felt has dried up, I need a heavier greasy type line that will stay intact for a few moments after I hit the area with Rapid Tac, or working on a black background.

Once you guys try the felts, you'll rarely grab your stabilos.

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Graphic Impact
located in BC Canada
gisigns@sprint.ca

[This message has been edited by Donna in BC (edited August 04, 2000).]

Posted by Bill Piper (Member # 23) on :

I too am a Sign Pen convert. The Ocre color works on most every color. Never had a problem with them, just people trying to walk off with em.
Thanks to Monte, I swear by em (not at em).

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Bill Piper
Cutting Edge Signs
Arlington Tx
(817)299-8085

Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :

I have looked through my catalogs and drove up to Office Depot and cannot find these pens. Sign pens sounds like a trade item, but what about the overhead markers Donna is talking about?

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Wright Signs
Wyandotte, Michigan
Since 1978
http://www.wrightsigns.bigstep.com

Posted by Jerry Mathel (Member # 526) on :

I notice that Dick Blick lists the Staedtler Lumocolor pens in their catalog. www.dickblick.com

Jerry Mathel
Jerry Mathel Signs
Grants Pass, Oregon
signs@grantspass.com

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Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :

Yep, white and blue only.... Don't like graphite or yellow.
I do like the sounds of the indelable pencil, is it like Seral paper?

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--------------------------------------------------
"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?"

Ken McTague
The Witch city
Salem, MA

Posted by Ricky Simpson (Member # 1318) on :

Monte.....I use the pentel color pen also,no ghosts like some of the others I have tried.

Only drawback is they lose their sharpness if you are heavy with the pressure.Still the best that I have found because you can be assured of no ghosts.The stabilos sometimes leave a ghost that is hard if not impossible to remove....at least for me. dick blick has them in different colors(the pentel pens that is). I use the silver grey on white backgrounds and black on other colors.Item # for those that are interested is #416-533...for the silver grey(dick blick). Its hard to find them in the catalog so the item number comes in handy when ordering then you can specify a color by asking.

Donna ....I am interested in the lumocolor markers but the ones I found in the dick blick catalog say they are permanent????

Speaking of layout markers Donna, were n't you trying your hand at handlettering back in the fall or was it someone else? Was wondering how it was going if it was you?

Ricky

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Ricky Simpson
Simpson Signs
South Central VA, USA
"railroader aspiring to be fulltime SignArtist."

Posted by Terry Teague (Member # 796) on :

windex will remove most stabilo layout lines most of the time, but sometimes when the layout has been on to long or the background paint is still a little fresh you have a problem with the lines leaving a ghost image. when this happen i use mineral spirits on a rag along with the windex spray....most times this works. when this doesn't work i use blech-white spray....you know, the stuff you use to clean the white walls on your tires...it never fails to remove the lines and doesn't effect the paint.

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Terry Teague
James River Signs
Reeds Spring, MO
tlteague@tri-lakes.net

Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :

If Bon-Ami still makes a cake soap, that is perfect for removing stubborn layout lines. Just moisten the tip of a rag and then rub a little Bon-Ami on it. Dry cleanser works too.

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Wright Signs
Wyandotte, Michigan
Since 1978
http://www.wrightsigns.bigstep.com

Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :

It may sound gross, but spit (as in saliva) works great for removing stabilo marks. I just have to remember not to spit on a sign in front of the customer... If it's been on too long and leaves a ghost, use rubbing alcohol.

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"A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Raoul Duke (Hunter S. Thompson)

Cam
Finest Kind Signs
256 S. Broad St.
Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379
"Award winning Signs since 1988"

Posted by Jerry Mathel (Member # 526) on :

David,

You can still order cake Bon-Ami from Esoteric Sign Supply. They are Letterville sponsors, go to the supplier page and click on their banner.

Jerry Mathel
Jerry Mathel Signs
Grants Pass, Oregon
signs@grantspass.com

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Posted by Daniel R. Perez (Member # 1585) on :

In the past, what I've found to remove stabilo completely is denatured alcohol. The paint has to be totally dry and wiped lightly. I have a habit of putting pencils on my ear. On several occasions, I stuck the pencil pointing to the rear, and as I began to sweat, the pencil began to melt and started running down my neck.Lol! Of course, all the guys in the shop were getting a kick out of it and no one told me about it. I finally went to restroom and looked in the mirror and then had to laugh myself. Ahhh the good ol' days.

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There is nothing new under the sun. What will be has already been and what has been will be again.
Daniel R. Perez
Daniez Dzines
Fresno, CA
daniez@netzero.net

[This message has been edited by Daniez (edited August 05, 2000).]

Posted by Adrienne Pereira (Member # 1046) on :

Daniel....didn't your Mother tell you NEVER to stick anything in your ears?????????

No matter how good it feels!
A

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Adrienne Morgan
Splash Signs
www.splashsigns.com
"Rainkatt' on mirc chat

A PROUD sponsor of this amazing site...U can B 2!! www.letterheads.com/supporters
"If it wasn't for signs, you wouldn't know where you were!!"

836 B Southampton rd
#256
Benicia, CA 94510
707-550-4553 (vm)
adrienne@splashsigns.com

[This message has been edited by AdrienneMorgan (edited August 05, 2000).]

Posted by Mike Languein (Member # 319) on :

Adrienne - my mom said it would be alright if I would stick my elbow in my ear. So there!

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"If it isn't fun, why do it?"
Signmike@aol.com
Mike Languein
Doctor of Letters
BS, MS, PhD
___________________

You know what BS is, MS is More of the Same, and it's Piled Higher and Deeper here

Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :

BON-AMI cakes are still available thru all the sources mentioned here but you might be interested to know the Faultless Starch company in Kansas City os the source and they will ship directly to you if you contact them
(by the case)I did it 10 years ago and still have a lifetime supply.Also if you contact your local super market they can get it for you by the case (not that much of an investment... around 30. dollars) and most stores will be happy to do it for you...especially if your a good customer.

I have found over the years it is difficult keeping tabs on products and have gone to the source instead of the supplier ...they in turn either supply it direct or recommend dealers in your area they ship to.I've saved a few coins this way and eliminated a lot of searching.

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Monte Jumper
SIGNLanguage/Norman.Okla.

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