The Letterville BullBoard: How do YOU save your job files?

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Posted by Christian Slager (Member # 1074) on :

hey all...
i just bought a cdrw... and i thought i had a plan on how i was going to store job files.. but...

currently everything is saved onto the hard drive... like so..

Jobs
Banners, Real Estate,Mags,RTA,Coroplast,MDO, Digital, Etc... and then you save the job according to what it is...
and our paper files are done so that most customers have an index card, and each order is assigned the next consecutive number, and the number is written on the customers index card, large customers have a manilla folder, and all their files are put in the folder, those are kept in a file cabinet.
what i wanted to do was have all the large customers have a cd. and their files get kept on the cd. but what if the cd gets scratched? then id lose all those files...

what do yall do for your computer files?
thanks! Christian

------------------
Christian S.
Budget Signs & Graphics
In sunny Florida
vinylman777@juno.com
ICQ# 41812133

Posted by Jack Davis (Member # 1408) on :

I have a write/rewrite cd myself. First of all don't even buy rewrite discs. If you ever need to view them elsewhere besides the cd they were written on you can't.....Regular write cds are less the a buck each so they are expendible when you update the files. Each one will hold 750 meg of info. This is probably more than the average user will have in art and business type files.......I set everything up in files on my hard drive like this. Signs(folder) inside it I have Current(folder), Finished (folder)....inside both of them I have Customer Name (folders).....inside them Job (folders) if they are a large customers.... and inside them you can put the artwork files, the cut files for each size cut, even the purchase order and statement files and even a finished photo the the sign job if you choose. Makes a job real easy to find anything associated with it...........When you get ready to backup to the cd just choose the Signs folder and copy it to the cd.... That simple.... later when you back up again for less than a buck you can give the old one a sling or keep it for a secondary backup. I usually keep about 3 backups in different locations. These write only cds can be read by any CD player. Hope some of this helps. Each user will have his or her own filing methods, but I feel rewrite discs are for the birds.....Bronzeo

------------------
Jack Davis
1410 Main St
Joplin, MO 64801
www.imagemakerart.com
bronzeo@prodigy.net http://www.imagemakerart.com

[This message has been edited by bronzeo (edited July 26, 2000).]

Posted by Christian Slager (Member # 1074) on :

i can read the rewritables off of any cd player... i dont know why you cant....
im using a cool little prog called abCD that lets you write to the cd as if it were a regular floppy or zip disk. it really is cool..
still would like more ideas for filing tho.
later yall
christian

------------------
Christian S.
Budget Signs & Graphics
In sunny Florida
vinylman777@juno.com
ICQ# 41812133

Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :

I'm not nearly as organized as Jack!!! hehehe

I backup to my PD drive...which is a rewritable CD that is more like a DVD (Optical writing) Each disk holds 650 meg and they are enclosed in a case much like a 3.5" floppy, only CD size.

Since I do everything in Corel, when I save the file I assign keywords to the file (like customer name and whether it is a truck/boat/banner/sign and something that describes it more accurately) Then once it is backed up on the PD I can use that RomCat utility to find the file if I can't remember the actual filename.

Oh yeah..another nice thing about this PD system is that I can open the file that's on the backup disk, don't have to "import" it and then add to or modify the file and when I shut down Corel and it asks if I want to save the changes, it saves the changes right onto that disk.

------------------
Dave Grundy shop#340
AKA "applicator" on mIRC
"stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!"
in Granton, Ontario, Canada
1-519-225-2634
dave.grundy@quadro.net
www.quadro.net/~shirley
"A PROUD $ supporter of the website"

[This message has been edited by Dave Grundy (edited July 26, 2000).]

Posted by Nevman (Member # 332) on :

We primarily use SignLab (they have a CDL extension.)

Here's how we save ours; it was based on having an eight charcter legnth restriction:

We have two folders for each year

00CDL/
99CDL/
98CDL/
.
.
.
LOGO00/
LOGO99/
LOGO98
.
.
.

Preliminary layouts, repeat jobs and logo's are saved in the LOGO00/ directory of that year by client name. HOLBAN.CDL, HOL_3x4.CDL, HOLDIR.CDL are jobs for my client Holiday Stucco in the LOGO00/ folder. If I have to layout another sign for Holiday, I can go to the LOGO00/ folder for their logo and start from there. Or go back to the year before if I can't find it in this year.

Once the layouts are approved and the job gets a work order number, it then gets saved in the 00CDL/ folder using the first three letters of the client and the invoice number (HOL1234.CDL, HOL2234.CDL etc.)

I can now look up the old job three ways. Search in my invoice database for the job number, look it up in LOGO00/ folder, or scroll through the 00CDL starting with HOL...

We use un-numbered work orders here so we write a new number as we go. There is a master list to keep track of the WO's.

At the beginning of each year we alternate starting at 1000 and the next year we start with 5000. Helps to let you know what year we did the job.

A side note; we also put all important information right in the SignLab file. Size, materials, vinyl colors, etcetera are always there for reference. Below is an example.

I hope that this is less confusing to you all than it is to me right now

------------------
Pat Neve, Jr.
Sign Man, Inc.
4580 N. US 1
Melbourne, FL 32935
321-259-1703
signman@signmaninc.com
Capt. Sign
Letterville Constituent
constituent: "One of the individual entities contributing to a whole"

Posted by Jack Davis (Member # 1408) on :

Vinylman, I can play a rewright on another cd too if I "format" the disc to be read by any cd, but this closes my ability to rewrite any of the info on the disc, which I my opinion renders it useless..... Is yours different than this...I have got the latest hp r/rw and figure that its state of the art at least for the general user. I just can't imagine trying to write and rewrite to a cd to replace the use of a hard drive unless I was working a file between 2 different computers. At least in my particular case if not also yours, you would need 2 identical rewright cds or and external one which I can take with me like I have. I would really be interested to know if you can rewright a file after you have burned it in to use on an outside cd. Cheers, Bronzeo

------------------
Jack Davis
1410 Main St
Joplin, MO 64801
www.imagemakerart.com
bronzeo@prodigy.net
http://www.imagemakerart.com

Posted by Pierre St.Marie (Member # 1462) on :

My guys have the Gerber 6. ......whatever the hell. We installed a ZipDrive in the computer, so we save nothing on the c: drive. It stays clean and very fast. We backup the zip disc to another one every friday. Everything's on zip. :^)

------------------
St.Marie Graphics
& Makin' Tracks Sound Studio
Kalispell, Montana
stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com
800 735-8026
We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)

Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :

As I understand it (please correct me if I'm wrong) you can only use CD-R discs on regular CD players.

I like to use CD-RW to store copies of my files. I use the discs as if they were an additional drive. That way I can "drag-n-drop" my files and/or delete files on the fly. However, the discs will only be able to read on multi-session cd players or other CD-RW drives.

I recently invested $200 on a USB CD-RW and I love it. I have the USB software installed on all of our computers so that I can just plug the CD-RW whenever and wherever I need to.

------------------
Compost Happens!

:) Design is Everything! :)
Glenn Taylor
in beautiful North Carolina

http://members.tripod.com/taylor_graphics
walldog@geeksnet.com

Posted by Jack Davis (Member # 1408) on :

Glen, As far as I know you can use a rewrite on any cd if you close the disc "format it" thus burning the info permanently in the disc for other cd players.... You may be able to transfer to another type of rewrite cd without doing this... I'm not sure about that. I have an external one that I could use like you do for another external drive and move it between computers, but I guess I feel it easier to use the hard drive and get around the slower cd writing and formating, and mine is about as fast as they get so far. I just use mine as a backup for files, and to copy other music cds and the like. The write cds are cheap..... Bronzeo

------------------
Jack Davis
1410 Main St
Joplin, MO 64801
www.imagemakerart.com
bronzeo@prodigy.net
http://www.imagemakerart.com

Posted by Mike O'Neill (Member # 470) on :

All graphic files on our shop are written to a central file server, the server backs up every night to a separate hard drive on one of the workstations, once a month or so the current files are burned onto a rewriteable cd and removed from the premises, once the rewriteable gets full it's time to burn onto regular cd. Archived files are kept on the file server for use (faster than reading / rooting through cd's) but have also been burned (2 copies) onto cd's. Files from 93-97 fit on 1 cd, 98 needed a cd to itself, 99 used 2 cd's, 2000 looks like it will end up on 3 cd's. (We are creating quite a few large files lately, - wide format printer).
We use romcat to locate files, I cannot exaggerate on how great a tool romcat has been, I had a coop student for a while last year and had him open every file in our archives and add keywords. All files are numbered not named (ie. 9912007a.cdr), first 2 digits are the year, next 2 are month, next 3 are file number within the month, and the letter on the end is used for revision or for jobs that have multiple files or if I've converted text to curves to outsource the job. Each file contains keywords which will include the customer name, and as many keywords as possible that will describe the job. As well as keywords, Corel will let you save notes with each filename, we use this feature to store enough information to redo the job. ie. vinyl types and substrate types.) This filing system allows us to search not only by customer and keyword but by date as well. If I was looking for a file for a customer I could use "O'Connells" on the first line of the romcat search, and 9912 on the second line of the romcat search, and romcat would find all files created for O'connells in december of 99.
The exception to the filing system is logos, which we name and save under a separate (not dated) directory. We never import logos from an older file, rather we always import logos from the logos directory, this way if a companies logo gets revised we are sure we are always working with the current version of it. This filing system is working great, with romcat I can usually have a file open on my computer while the customer is on the phone describing the sign we did 3 years ago that he wants more of.
After being in this business for a few years I've realised the most valuable thing in our shop is our archives, everything else can be replaced.

------------------
Mike O'Neill

Trans-Labrador Signs
Labrador City, Labrador

'Durn vinyl won't stick to ice'

moneill@crrstv.net

"The best things in life aren't things"
Art Buchwald

Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :

Here's a trick for people with CD-R's or RW's..

Use one CD for a client, but instead of writing the CD all at once and locking the disc, keep the disc unlocked but write several sessions to it. Once the disc is full, lock it and then any other CD ROM can read it.

This allows you to add files to the disc as the customer brings you more work.
It also allows you to save different versions of the same files, say if they get updated alot you can track the changes and revisions.

Now ya wont waste a whole CD for a lousy 3MB worth of data.. not that the cost is an issue, but I wouldnt like hanging onto 5 CD's for a client when all the files could have fit onto one.

Personally, I use an additional external Hard drive to back up my entire system. I have an external port on the SCSI card in my system and the hard drive plugs into that.
Each week the entire system gets backed up then the external drive gets locked away in a fire box to keep it safe.

------------------
Mike Pipes
Digital Illusion Custom Graphics
Lake Havasu City, AZ
http://www.stickerpimp.com

Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :

Each software program has it's own set of folders, A-Z.

All my A customers are listed in their own separate folder under A, B's in B, etc.

(I prefer this system over the titles Banners, Coroplast etc. because it's normally the individual we're dealing with when reordering, not the job type)

I attempt to name the individual jobs with some detail so I can find what I'm after quickly without requiring the workorder.

I save everything on the h/d, and use my tape backup system to backup work files every day right before closing, each day having it's own tape. If one tape goes bad, I've only lost 1 day's worth of work if I even need the backup.

The backup for 7 yrs worth of work takes approx 20 min. I set my watch alarm so I remember in advance to back up, and then take the new tape home with me.

------------------
Graphic Impact
located in BC Canada
gisigns@sprint.ca

Posted by Richard Bustamante (Member # 370) on :

What a great post.
All good methods. Except maybe for the Zip Drive; that is if it is a Zip100. They only have 100MB worth of space.

The consensis seems to be CD writers.

Now all of you are saying, "back`up". So, do you do a back`up, or are you just saving your files. There is a difference. Windows backs`up files using it's own back`up program, that uses an *.cif extension. If your system ever crashes, all you have to run is the "restore" feature to capture all your lost files. Backing`up does not mean you have to back`up your whole hard drive. In fact, your can choose the files at will.

CD-R: There are two types; the 650MB/74min, and the 700MB/80min. To determine the quality of the cd, just look at the "write" speed. If its something like; 12X, that means you'll be able to "write" to the CD at a greater speed. They come in 4X, 6X, 8X, 10X, and 12X. Heres a little tip. Before you burn a CD. Hold it up to the light, and see if you can see any light, or holes in the mirror portion of the CD. If there is, no data can be written on that location; thus corrupted file.

CD-RW: This CD is very much like the CD-R, but differs in one major aspect; its reusable, or "re`writable". How does this work? The laser in the CD uses two temptures, the "normal" temp, which reads and writes, and "erase" temp, which melts the plastic, and alligns the crystals so that the CD is essentially brand new again.

There are many methods to back`up files.

Jazz Drive. My favorate, It holds one Giga`Byte. Thats 10-100MB Zip disks. It also uses an IDE connection. Speed is King.

Tape drives. These drives are fairly cheep, and hold plenty of information. One draw back though, you'll have to change the the cassette every so often. Slow not good.

3.25" Floppy: These are good for one time customers. Something easy, just throw the floppy in his (customer) file. There small, but convient.

Secondary Hard Drive: I have two HDD`s (hard disk drives) on my machines. Each has its own running version of windows. (not at the same time) Lets say my primary HDD crashes; to save time, I remove my primary HDD from BIOS, I repeat *BIOS*, and assign my secondary HDD to take its place. It also has a running version of my sign software, and my crucial files. No time down! All files are backed`up. One draw back, you have to be fluent with puters. I always sweet talk mine.

How do I back`up? CD-R once a week, each dated, and secondary hard drive.

I hope this helped.

------------------
Richard Bustamante
12646 E. American Ave.
Del Rey, Ca. 93616
e-mail: signwiz@valleyone.net
www.studio-b.net

Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :

We have saved our jobs on 3.5 floppys for the last 12 or so years,we offload our files once a month and each disc is marked with the month and year.Each file has its own name and are retreived easily because they are directly linked to the work order which is dated and filed as they are completed.We have never (not found a file)and normally it takes less than 5 minutes to locate even the oldest most obscure files.Oh did I mention we also keep a printed catalogue with all the files listed as they are on the floppy.(just in case something eats the puter we still have our 18th century "fail safe" method to refer to.

------------------
Monte Jumper
SIGNLanguage/Norman.Okla.

Posted by Pierre St.Marie (Member # 1462) on :

I know nothing about computers, Richard, but I do know that the zip disc is instantaneous and seven months of continual graphics work & logos are on two discs. My recording studio uses cds on the Mac, but it's not as fast as the zip either direction. But, as I said.......I'm computer illiterate.

Posted by Jack Davis (Member # 1408) on :

Pierre, CDs are very fast recall, but for just working jobs on a disc the zip is probably the best. You can however get the same amount on a cd for about 12 cents (considering per 100 Meg), that you can get on a 15 dollar zip disc. They are not sensitive to near as much age degradation and will not download to static electricity or magnetism. I still don't understand why one would choose to work on an outside storage sorce of either unless you are for certain working the job back and forth between computers. I simply do the job on the computor hard drive where it is fast, and when I feel the importance to backup; put it on "your" choice of storage device. Tape backups are currently a very slow method of recall, and undpedictable quality of recall, but serve as a choice for full hard disc backup if you do it daily, or often. These are just my choices. They are surely the most efficient for us. Filing methods are just personal preferrence, for whatever tickles your memory. Customer folders and subfolders under that seems to work best for us. I can't imagine using a rewrite cd for single customer. I once had a 7 year screenprinting customer, that we produced over 7,000,000 pieces for. The job included at least 170 designs and 7 years of invoices and bookkeeping. It was an ongoing 7 year thing. The whole mess would have taken up less than 20% of a 750 meg cd. and I would have worn it out pulling it in and out of the cd player. Hard disc space is just to big to worry about an alternative, and a large amount of "work files" does not slow them down enough for a user to notice. Drivers, standby utilities, and programs with files running in the background, "things that are held in cache and ram are what usually slows a computer down. Bronzeo

------------------
Jack Davis
1410 Main St
Joplin, MO 64801
www.imagemakerart.com
bronzeo@prodigy.net
http://www.imagemakerart.com

Posted by Pierre St.Marie (Member # 1462) on :

Hey, Jack.....that makes sense. Our zips are installed in the computers with the cd and the A:. We pull up an active job/graphic from the zip, work it on the c:, resave it to the zip (d

and go on to the next one. There's literally no waiting time to recall or save. Our c: is absolutely clean and very fast. As I said I truly don't know much about any of this other than how to work the program. I DO know, however, that in my recording studio we NEVER depend on a laser burned cd master to be a permanent record of recorded tracks. The DAT tapes are far more secure and we ALWAYS mix down simultaneously to a 1/4" master, Cassette master, DAT master and the Digidesign in the computer for burning on the Pinnacle 1000 cd burner. The (recording studio, at least) cds depend on the ink quality and longevity for long term music/master storage. No one in the industry depends on a laser burned cd for that function. Are PC computer discs burned the same way?
I can also tell you that our control room CD burner produces "red-book" cds, which are quite different in quality from the PC type cds. They're also longer lived. BTW.....it's common knowledge in our industry (recording) that any ink or marker lettering put on the face of a writeable cd WILL, in time, bleed thru to the inks on the recorded surface and eventually destroy the info directly underneath it. I guess we'll stick with the zips. Instant is instant, and I don't see an advantage to using our cd setup. The cds can also be mishandled. My unenlightened .02 :^)

Posted by Larry Elliott (Member # 263) on :

We use a CD-RW with Direct CD and EASY-CD software, discs burned with these utilities can be 'temporarily' closed out to use on other CD readers. You will lose a small amount of disc space when doing this because the file tree has to be restructured and recopied each time you close out a session. Some of our files have reached mammoth sizes for large poster prints and a CD burner was our best alternative for storage. At one time (12 years ago) when our files only contained a few lines of text and a simple graphic we kept everything on 5-1/4" floppies, then had to move up to a ZIP when we started creating print jobs with photos. Our filing method is crude, simple but effective, each customer has their files in folders by job name and each CD then gets cataloged with RomCat or Cumulus. I recently had to buy a fire-proof safe to start storing all these CD's, one copy is kept at the shop in the safe and another copy is kept at home. You can never have too many copies, floppies and ZIPs can become corrupted a lot easier than CDs, as long as you don't get a scratch on a CD it'll last a lifetime, magnetic media degrades after a few years, some of my 12 year old floppies are no longer readable (glad I put them all on CD a few years back).

------------------
Larry

Elliott Design
McLemoresville, Tn.

If you can't find the time to do it right,
where gonna find the time to do it over?

Posted by Pierre St.Marie (Member # 1462) on :

Larry.....My main recording format in the recording stuio is on the 2" 24 track machine. Some of my 2"x 1,500' tapes are 20 years old and sound as good as the day they were recorded. The only thing that can corrupt those tapes is storing them near a magnetic source. We record weekly with these large and VERY expensive tapes, tailwind them and store them after mixdown in a temperature contolled environment. I really don't know the makeup of a zip disc so I can't intelligently discuss it's ability, or lack thereof, for longevity.

Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :

We set up floders A-Z in a Customer Directory. In each folder are folders for each customer. There is a MISC. folder for the one time jobs that might not warrant a folder. In the folder goes not only the graphic file from our sign program, but any photos or letters. Anything pertaining to that customer. This system seems to be a dandy means to locate info. It was designed by a lady in Florida who is recognized by code name Nettie. The whole system is then backed up regularly on a tape drive, which is the part that I don't like.

------------------
The SignShop
Mendocino, California
"Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"

Posted by Jack Davis (Member # 1408) on :

Pierre, You sound highly experienced with this, but every source I've discussed this with says magnetic tape will degrade faster that any storage means. My own experience is that less than half of my floppies of 8 to 10 years are readable, though some may last 50 (only time will tell) and I have got one tape out of about 150 on cassette music over 10 years that is worth listening to. It is very obvious that they have degraded at varying degrees. You may be correct on that 2" baby, but don't count on the cheap stuff. I can use my cds for coasters though I don't. I would still agree with you on your use for your particular purpose other than for permanent backups, though they probably will work fine. The drawback is the expense of the zips,the amount of info per disc, and surely their speed. Surely your hard drive is faster. If not then you have a serious problem with something else. I have a close friend that just gave up a zip for a cd writer, and loves it(My only discussion about this until now). I was going to get one, as a couple of years ago they were the best practical method, but I think things have changed. I will say again, keeping files out of computer doesn't keep it running fast, but keeping crap out of it does, and defraging it constantly. Bronzeo

------------------
Jack Davis
1410 Main St
Joplin, MO 64801
www.imagemakerart.com
bronzeo@prodigy.net http://www.imagemakerart.com

[This message has been edited by bronzeo (edited July 27, 2000).]

Posted by Pierre St.Marie (Member # 1462) on :

This could be the reason.....The large studio tapes may not be made of the same material or mfg process as the zip discs. I would guess that this must be the case. We should probably be dumping the zip info onto a cd periodically. Working daily from the zip is quick & easy for us. I'm glad this subject came up, it's been educational for me.

Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :

Hi Heads,

I save files first to my Zip 250mg. I dont use folders...not necessary. Why? Because the files are stored in alphabetical order anyway....so why bother with folders?

We do it like this:
anders_1 , anders_2, anders_3 or like:
draper1, draper2, draper3, draper4,

When the Zip 250 meg fills up, I place in another 250.... when that disk fills up we burn 2 CD's (one for work, one for emergency)

The 250 zip disks are erased and we use them again.

FYI:

CD'S WILL LAST 50 YEARS

FLOPPY DISKS last 5-7 YEARS

Better plan a built in CD burner in your next computer! Just my opinion!

------------------
Go Get 'Em..... :)
AKA Raptorman on #Letterheads mIRC Chat
Draper The Signmaker
Bloomington Illinois USA

Proud 2-yr. $upporter of this Web Site (May 1999-May 2001)

Posted by Christian Slager (Member # 1074) on :

and after all of that... ive decided....

i like my OLD way best! ahhahah.
it seems simple yet precise. so, ill keep savin em to my hard drive, which is 15.3gig. and only half full (with 5 gigs used for linux ;-) ) and then back up to my nifty new cdrw.
the thing is... for some reason, my cdrw's are readable on my other computers cd drive... theyre networked, and i have the burner shared... i dont know if that has anything to do with it.
later yall
Christian

------------------
Christian S.
Budget Signs & Graphics
In sunny Florida
vinylman777@juno.com
ICQ# 41812133

Posted by Brian Stoddard (Member # 39) on :

I have every essential file (not program files) in the same main folder then seperate folders under that. That makes it sooo easy to back up. Our shop is behind our house and the two computers in the shop and the one in the house are networked so I have it setup to auto back up to the house computer every night. Every month or so I back up to cds. Redundant perhaps, but I sleep well.

------------------
Brian Stoddard
Expressions Signs
A few puddles east of Seattle

Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :

Why use folders Dave asks?

#1. Because there's less reading initially. I find less reading faster for myself. Cleaner on the eyes to look at folder A than the list of 7 years worth of names.

#2. I can name my files to be more descriptive under a company's name. GraphicImpact 1 doesn't describe the job type. Easier to retrieve a certain job later with minimal need of paper file folder or lists for reference.

I do also caution against using just floppies to back up your work. Only one copy and the floppies do have a limited shelf life. They read error messages as time passes, for seamingly no reason.

Any backup system can fail. That's why I use 5 tapes, one for everyday. One fails, I'm not too worried.

------------------
Graphic Impact
located in BC Canada
gisigns@sprint.ca

[This message has been edited by Donna in BC (edited July 27, 2000).]

Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :

I'm definately on the same page as Donna on this one! I'm all for folders!

With regards to catagorizing my files though.
I treat my computer the same way as I would a file cabinet. Each customer gets a file folder. One time customer's are put in a Misc. folder.

Every file type, from any software program and anything at all to do with any one customer gets put in their own folder.
Example: My customer "Retro" has their own folder. I just finished doing a proposal on a job for them called "Everglades". Retro's "Everglades " quote that I just did in Quark Express will be labeled "everglades quote" and put in their folder. Then Retro's sketch for Everglades I just did in Corel will also be labeled "Everglades Sketch", and put in the same folder. Any notes, drawings, jobs, or quotes etc on them can be found in their folder. Simply doesn't matter if it's an mdo, banner, quote, sketch ... or whatever.
The one common element is the customer and that gets the folder. In this case "Retro". Just like how you would file it with paper.

Easy retrieval for anything on any customer!

Regular customers stay on my harddrive, others live on zips. Everyone gets put on a tape backup!

Nettie

------------------
"When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"

Janette Balogh
Sign Studio
in Sunny Florida
jbalogh@earthlink.net
Current Pet Profile - Please send us yours!
http://www.markfair.com/nettie

Start packing and move in! It's just too easy to be a Resident!
Location, Location, Location! It's all right here!
http://www.letterhead.com/supporters

Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :

I may be looking into using removable hard-drives for backups. We lost all of our files and backups in the flood last year. All of the backups were on 2 sets of Zips. Zips and water don't go well together. So when we started to rebuild, we decided to backup onto CD's. Well, my computer crashed last Thursday and I had to reformat the HD to get things started back up. The problem is that between the flood and last Saturday, my art files filled up 16 CD's. It takes about a day to back everything up.

------------------
Compost Happens!

:) Design is Everything! :)
Glenn Taylor
in beautiful North Carolina

http://members.tripod.com/taylor_graphics
walldog@geeksnet.com

Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :

pierre: the construction of a zip disk is similar to a floppy disk, in that all it is is a magnetic disk in there that spins around.

I hate to break it to you folks but there is NO real long-lived storage medium for PC's.

Magnetic storage mediums are lousy. They need to be kept away from static sources and even then they can still lose data if left sitting on the shelf for too long.

CD's are better, yet still not all that great.
The manufacturers claim 75 years (cyanine dye, used in "green" discs), 100 years (phthalocyanine dye, used in "gold" discs), or even 200 years ("advanced" phthalocyanine dye, used in "platinum" discs) once the disc has been written. The shelf life of an unrecorded disc has been estimated at between 5 and 10 years. There is no standard agreed-upon way to test discs for lifetime viability. Accelerated aging tests have been done, but they may not provide a meaningful analogue to real-world aging.

Exposing the disc to excessive heat, humidity, or to direct sunlight will greatly reduce the lifetime. In general, CD-Rs are far less tolerant of environmental conditions than pressed CDs, and should be treated with greater care. The easiest way to make a CD-R unusable is to scratch the top surface. Find a CD-R you don't want anymore, and try to scratch the top (label side) with your fingernail, a ballpoint pen, a paper clip, and anything else you have handy. The results may surprise you.

Keep them in a cool, dark, dry place, and they will probably live longer than you do (emphasis on "probably"). Some newsgroup reports have complained of discs becoming unreadable in as little as three years, but without knowing how the discs were handled and stored such anecdotes are useless. Try to keep a little perspective on the situation: a disc that degrades very little over 100 years is useless if it can't be read in your CD-ROM drive today.

By some estimates, pressed CD-ROMs may only last for 10 to 25 years, because the aluminum reflective layer starts to corrode after a while.

One user was told by Blaupunkt that CD-R discs shouldn't be left in car CD players, because if it gets too hot in the car the CD-R will emit a gas that can blind the laser optics. However, CD-Rs are constructed much the same way and with mostly the same materials as pressed CDs, and the temperatures required to cause such an emission from the materials that are exposed would melt much of the car's interior. The dye layer is sealed into the disc, and should not present any danger to drive optics even if overheated. Even so, leaving a CD-R in a hot car isn't good for for the disc, and will probably shorten its effective life.

Until Holographic Data Storage is widely available, we're stuck with unpredictable media lifes. Check out http://www.research.ibm.com/journal/rd/443/ashley.html to read a little on holographics..

I've been following the progress on 'HDS' for the past five years.. pretty cool stuff

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Mike Pipes
Digital Illusion Custom Graphics
Lake Havasu City, AZ
http://www.stickerpimp.com

Posted by Gail & Dave Beattie (Member # 572) on :

for what its worth...

i install all programs to the C drive.
keep the zips & patches for any of the downloaded stuff in the D drive that gets written to cd when i remember
the reason i do this is that when a problem happens its usually easier to simply format the boot drive (haven't had to do this too often thankfully) and setup a clean os.

the sign work is saved in what devo calls 'gail's secret service' on the D drive also
and as donna said i think folders are the easiest way to organise files.
folder called signs holds everything weve made.
under that i have the 'artwork' folder which reflects what worksheets are in the 'live jobs' stacker.
i have a customers folder which is then broken down into our regular customers folders
then there is the personal folder for stuff im playing with
a taurus folder for the files directly related to our own business
and a saved artwork folder that is broken down into date ranges that holds all the 'once' only type jobs that we do
even thou our machines are networked i find that files are often operator independant and so i have the same folder setup in each of the puters.

when i write a cd to save these files, i feel the option of date ranges works best and once the folders & files are saved onto cd's they are removed from the machines.

i end up with 2 cd's for most quarters and always close the session not the cd till its full....
the easy part is when i am looking for sumfin i simply ask devo to tell me what date was on the invoice or etimate cause the account software lives in his puter for ever, so even the one off customers have a date their work was done on.

i always make copies of the cd's i burn, off-site backups are just common sence i think.

dont know if this is a smart way of doing stuff or not but it works and we never lose anything so i guess well keep doing it.

regards
gail

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on chat T2

Gail & Dave
NSW Australia

taurus_signs@one.net.au

sumtimes ya just gota

Posted by Michel Thibodeau (Member # 310) on :

Hi guys
How would you like a software that can do that for you so you don`t have to do it.

I know a guy that can make software and he made one very similar one for us at the shop i`m sure he could make one that could save us time and frustration.

Let me know what you think and i can talk to the Programmer and tell me how much he would charge?

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Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :

hmmmmmmmm push 'save' or 'save as'
:O) :O) :O) :O) :O) :O) :O) :O)
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"surf" or "MoJo54" on mirc
Cheryl Nordby
Signs by Cheryl
206 300-0153
Seattle Washington

Out of my mind.....Be back in 5 minutes!

[This message has been edited by cheryl nordby (edited July 28, 2000).]

Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :

Ya dont need special software to make backups and such.. Windows comes with a basic back-up program and there are countless backup programs available, some of them free.

As for a file system, it depends completely upon the individual.

I have a folder (on the HD) called "Digital Illusion" (my biz name) and under it are folders, each with a client's name. Within each folder is all the artwork I produced for them, scanned artwork, vector art, and camera ready-to-print TGA/TIF files.

Pretty simple..

For invoicing, all invoices go into one folder. I use Microsoft Excel for generating invoices, and with each new invoice I create, it automatically saves the important info into another workbook that lists all the invoices by number, date, name or whatever other method I choose.

My invoice sheet also contains invisible fields for sizing and pricing info.. essentially computer generated estimates based on size and time required to complete the job. When I print the invoices, those fields become invisible and do not print. Only I get to see those. =)

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Mike Pipes
Digital Illusion Custom Graphics
Lake Havasu City, AZ
http://www.stickerpimp.com

Posted by David Fisher (Member # 107) on :

every job that comes in has a unique number alotted to it ie 2000.001
The number is taken from an MS access database that has all teh info on the job in it (there is also a paper backup of the info)and the database is searchable by an criteria... name, date, address, job description, billing details yada yada.
There is a central file server for the active jobs that has a directory that might for instance read 2000_001 University O block so its always numerical.
Until recently when we bought a CD burner the archive was kept on zip, now we rewrite a CD of the entire jobs directory appending it to the archive.
There is also an off site copy kept that is back up less frequently.
The database was the biggest breakthrough for this whole process and it also keeps records of contacts other than sales such as supplier info, right down to the phone number of the corner shop for lunch orders and the pub for delivery

All in all, a damn sight better than what they had before I wrote the database which was a dog eared book and about 400 floppy disks. (Even if I do say so myself

)
AND! I even took the unprecedented step of getting some virus protection software after saving the whole lot from a nasty trojan.
Now, next project, getting the people we deal with used to using an ftp site through their browser, the fun never ends.
David

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D.A. & P.M. Fisher Signwriting
Brisbane Australia
da_pmf@yahoo.com

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