The Letterville BullBoard: Enamel Receptive Vinyl Question

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Posted by Alicia B. Jennings (Member # 1272) on :

I just got my first plotter a couple of weeks ago. I'm gonna be doing some jobs on enamel recpt. vinyl. Do you....
A. Paint the vinyl, let it dry, then cut it on the plotter
B. Cut the vinyl, then dump on the paint, let it dry , then weed it.
C. Cut the vinyl, weed it, them dump on the paint.
When I say 'dump on the paint', I really mean 'apply the paint with a loving, gentle hand'.
I tried 'B', but the dried paint wouldn't break through when I tried to weed it. Then I tried 'A', but the paint seemed to get on the blade and the little friction wheels had just a very small tad of paint on them. I'm confused. The first person who answers, I will own them a beer. Maybe thursday nite in Boise.

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Signs by Alicia Jennings
Since 1987
Have Lipstick, will travel.

Posted by Tony McDonald (Member # 1158) on :

Try B again without letting your paint dry ... you're spraying the paint right?

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When good things happen...that must be a sign!!
Tony McDonald
DBA-Ace Graphics & Printing
P.O. Box 91
Camdenton, MO. USA
(573) 346-6696
<daddyo@advertisnet.com>

Posted by Nevman (Member # 332) on :

We apply the paint after the vinyl is cut. It's much better to spray it on with a few light coats. Brush painting puts too much paint on the vinyl and fills the cracks too much. I haven't tried using a foam roller, but I bet that you could get a thinner coat of paint on using one of those. I thin-out Naz-Dar 9700 series screen inks and spray directly on to regular vinyl.

I believe that this may be a question for Kevin from one shot.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

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Pat Neve, Jr.
Sign Man, Inc.
4580 N. US 1
Melbourne, FL 32935
321-259-1703
signman@signmaninc.com
Capt. Sign
Letterville Constituent
constituent: "One of the individual entities contributing to a whole"

[This message has been edited by Nevman (edited July 10, 2000).]

Posted by Mark Fair Signs (Member # 289) on :

why not aproach the job a little differently?
if you are using paint anyway, why not use an inexpensive computer mask?

be sure and let it tack a little, then peel the mask while paint is still wet?
(if done this way,you get a cleaner edge to the letter.) (a lttle messy, but you can use rubber gloves during the "peel" process)

just a thought, not the rule.

what works for you is the best.

mark

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Mark Fair

Mark Fair Signs
http://www.markfair.com

flash site... http://www.markfair.com/flash.html
I Don't Work... I dis-PLAY

2162 Mt. Meigs Road
Montgomery, Alabama 36107
334-262-4449

mark@markfair.com

"Mark Fair is a Proud Contributor to The Letterhead Site!"

Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :

Alicia..I do what, I think you are refering to, on a regular basis. I use automotive basecoat/clearcoat..sprayed(don't try this at home kids..because it isn't really a healthy thing to do..if you don't have a spray booth and a GOOD extraction system and a good air supply system). It works great!! use your idea B. I cut the stuff, spray it, wait about 2 hours,(read that 2 beers!!!hahahahah)and then weed it. Leave it in a safe place (read that away from cats, birds, little kids, beer spillage, etc,) and then I go to bed!!

next morning I mask it and apply it!!(read that..if I'm not too "shakey"!!!)

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Dave Grundy shop#340
AKA "applicator" on mIRC
"stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!"
in Granton, Ontario, Canada
1-519-225-2634
dave.grundy@quadro.net
www.quadro.net/~shirley
"A PROUD $ supporter of the website"

Posted by Rich Stebbing (Member # 368) on :

Actually you can execute this in any or "all of the above" techniques you mentioned, but I prefer to cut first,paint and then weed. I apply my paint by spraying or by brush/roller(whatever), as sometimes I want a hard edge or horizon line so Brush can be faster to execute, but slower to dry.I usually weed it while still wet, although it can be messier(hey it's only paint).

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Rich Stebbing #945
RichSigns
Rohnert Park CA

Posted by Alicia B. Jennings (Member # 1272) on :

Wow! Quess I'll try 'B' again. But this time I'll airbrush the paint on. Last time I hand brushed it on kinda of thick. I put it on thick because I don't really trust the adhesive qualities of the material yet. I mostly work on trucks that get high presure washed. I didn't want any of the paint to come off the vinyl. The other reason I painted this last little job on the vinyl was because it was just the driver's name. The owner of the truck didn't want the driver's name 'painted' on because, just in case he changes drivers. I didn't want to buy 15 yards of a light blue vinyl just to do a little 5"X 1 1/4" name. The rest of the lettering on the truck was done in a gold colored vinyl with a very dark blue outline. Although, I still hand lettered the city and truck ID numbers.
Looks like I'm gonna be buying a six-pack.

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Signs by Alicia Jennings
Since 1987
Have Lipstick, will travel.

Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :

I paint vinyl everyday.. in fact, my airbrush runs for about 8 hours each day.

I paint, clearcoat, weed then let the paint cure for a while before I put the transfer tape on.

Since I do detailed airbrushing, it makes no sense for me to paint before weeding because the design usually needs to be placed within the cut material. =)

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Mike Pipes
Digital Illusion Custom Graphics
Lake Havasu City, AZ
http://www.stickerpimp.com

Posted by Dana Aaron on :

Don't weed before you paint... otherwise the paint gets on the backing paper, then when you put the transfer tape on, it picks up the oversprayed paint, too, and places it neatly on your surface... NOT a good thing.

Don't ask how I know that...

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Dana Aaron
Sign-A-Saurus
Nevis, MN
(218)652-3839
ICQ# 37949659

Two wrongs don't make a right... but three lefts does.

Posted by Wizsigns (Member # 778) on :

Like the rest I say Option [B] and if you are using one shot or similar on top it would be best to weed while paint just getting tacky.

I paint on vinyl using Createx Auto air - water based and cleans OK. Dries quick in airbrush though I find and not as nice to spray as automotive paints. But the auto-paints don't stay on the vinyl.

I heat set the Createx paint and only weed it when I have put on the clear coat. Either Auto clear for quality or FG for speed.

The idea of painting direct using a mask works well also either brushing or spraying. So long as you weed before it dries,

Dave you are spending too long drinking your beer. Or you must loose count after the first.

Good Luck

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David Allen
Wizard Signs - It's a kind of magic!
ICQ 3467358
Email david@wizardsigns.net
ICQ Pager 3467358@pager.icq.com
www.wizardsigns.net
Resident of Letterville
and Virginia, County Cavan, Ireland

[This message has been edited by Wizsigns (edited July 11, 2000).]

Posted by Brenda Daley Giuseppin (Member # 37) on :

I must ask.....why do you have to buy 15 yrds of light blue? What about just 1 yrd, who is your supplier? Got to get a new one!

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Brenda Beaupit
Classic Graphics
Kemptville, Ont
CANADA

Posted by Richard Bustamante (Member # 370) on :

Alicia;
If you are painting on *enamel* receptive vinyl that you are going to cut out on your new plotter, there are a couple of steps you should do. I read how everyone else does it, but I think there is a flaw in their thinking. (others; please don't get mad)

For one, if the paint dries after you've cut and painted the vinyl, theres a condition called "Bridging". It causes the paint to peel in places where it should stay, especially around the cut lines. This also happens with "cut`n`rolls". (hand cut masking)

Second; the preperation of the vinyl is necessary. I lightly "scuff" the vinyl before cutting & painting. This will ensure that the paint adhears properly. If not, when your removing the transfer mask, it will unfortunatialy lift up the paint.

Third; type of paint. Since you are using enamel receptive vinyl, I guess you'll be using enamel. For this I perfer 1-Shot, with a mixture of mineral spirits, and lacquer thinner; 1:1, for thinning. This will make your thinner some`what hot, but adheasion is diffinate. Another thing to consider; vinyl or multi-purpose ink. It smells, however you can apply this ink directly to regular vinyl with a little thinning.

How should it be done? Each one of us has our own way of doing things, and everyone enevariably does it differently. Thats why there are so many ways to do this.

Which is the right way? When it comes right down to it, its the way *you* have best results. Experimentation. Take from these posts, and learn; for that is why we are here.

Now, how would I do it?

1st. Scuff the vinyl lightly (enfasis on lightly) with a green pad, or steel wool.

2nd. Plot vinyl. Do not weed.

3rd. Paint, and let sit for a few minutes, to let the paint set`up slightly.

4th. Weed & apply transfer mask.

5th. Apply to substrait. Remove mask slowly.

I hope this helps.
May all your endevours go well.

Good Luck.

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Richard Bustamante
12646 E. American Ave.
Del Rey, Ca. 93616
e-mail: signwiz@valleyone.net
www.studio-b.net

Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :

Alicia,
Welcome to the world of plotter owners. Do you remember conversations we had about this in San Jose? Do you remember what you signed on Gary Rhodes' camper shell before his cross country trip? Ha

When I tried weeding before painting I found that paint dried on the release liner and was lifted by the app tape and it applied and dried on the truck. This happened when I tried weeding and hand painting an outline allowing the quill to go over the edges.

Thin coats of paint work fine. Hot solvents over cuts seem to weld the pieces together.

Sometimes I pen plot onto the clear enamel receptive stuff, and then have identification of where to airbrush what colors, and cut it the next day.

Many folks use Butch's technique of Krylon spray. You can cut it within minutes after painting. He sprays it on and blasts it quickly with a hair dryer, then a quick light coat of frog juice and the hair dryer again. Cut. Weed . Apply. Invoice. Smile. Have fun in Boise. Ciao

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The SignShop
Mendocino, California
"Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"

Posted by Dave Brill (Member # 1591) on :

I use Krylon with a variety of mask techniques (paper, card edges, etc)I also can spray on heavier and use texture techniques like plastic bags, etc.
I cut, spray (Krylon then FrogJuice), weed, wait....... and then mask. With Krylon, the app tape can sometimes leave a dulled finish if you mask to soon. If you can't weed soon after the paint starts to dry and the paint fully dries on you, you can put the vinyl in the freezer for about 5-10 mins and that will cause the vinyl to shrink a bit and open up the cuts.
If you use 1Shot... the vinyl MUST be prepped as mentioned earlier to prevent the paint from peeling.
As also mentioned earlier... experimentation is fun!!

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Dave Brill
Brilliant Signs & Grafix
Cheshire, CT, 06410
203-271-3677

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