The Letterville BullBoard: Interior Mural Questions

This is topic Interior Mural Questions in forum Old Archives at The Letterville BullBoard.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
http://www.letterville.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/13/377.html

Posted by Peter (Member # 1062) on :

Hi all,

I've read the helpful archives on painting interior murals but still have some questions as I prepare to do my first one.

1. How do you lay it out on the wall - pencil, charcoal, chalk? Do you use a "grid"
method?

2. Will the water-based acrylics or water-based Deka enamels work on top of an oil-based wall finish? The walls are already painted but I haven't found out what type of paint they used yet.

3. Do you need to work the acrylics/Dekas
wet-on-wet? In other words, if I roll out an ocean area in blue, do I have to do the shadings and highlights on the water right away, or can I come back the next day? I've never worked with these type of paints before.

4. Can you roll these paints on, and if so,
foam roller or cloth roller?

5. I notice some of you top coat your murals with a water-based varathane. How are you applying this - spray, roller, brush?

I'm doing a tropical scene with sand, water, sky and palm trees, etc. Any tips or anything I need to know?

As always, your vast and infinite knowledge is highly appreciated!

------------------
"Workin'hard...or hardly workin'?"

Peter Manzolillo
Jet Signs
Long Island, NY
jet22@mailcity.com

Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :

1) I use charcoal and/or a Stabilo. Yes, I use a grid.

2) If the walls have been painted with oil-based paint, then you must use an oil-based paint for your part of the work.

3) Acrylics dry pretty fast. I'd suggest practicing with the acrylics first to get the feel for it.

4)Yes....either way.

5) Usually a roller.

Tip....plan on spending twice as much time as you "think" you will. And, have fun!

------------------
Compost Happens!

:) Design is Everything! :)
Glenn Taylor
in beautiful North Carolina

http://members.tripod.com/taylor_graphics
walldog@geeksnet.com

Posted by PKing (Member # 337) on :

HiYa Pete
We do quite a few inside wall murals,MOST but not all are painted with latex,waterbase
Paint.As a general rule:water and oil do not mix!An oil base enamel will go over a latex wall(with some flattening)BUT water base Acrylic will NOT cover an oil base coat!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will leave the rest of the techniques up to my wife Bobbie...
Hi, this is wife Bobbie, as Pat said Acrylic won't go over oil based product, but if you seal it with a water base varnish first it will give it tooth for the acrylic to stick to or prime-all to coat out the wall. Acrylic dries fast so it is hard to work wet on wet so you can base your colors in first and go back to shade later. There are several ways to work wet on wet, there are mediums you can mix with acrylics to extend open time.,or use a spray bottle filled with water to dilute the paint. I will water my paint on my palette and work a fade on the wall or just spray the wall with a fine mist and work the shade in that way with a darker or lighter color what ever contrast is needed.
Hope I helped some good luck!
Happy Painting!!!

------------------
PKing is
Pat King of
King Sign Design in
McCalla,Alabama
The Professor of
SIGNOLOGY

Posted by Peter (Member # 1062) on :

Hi, thanks for the answers so far.

I have been informed that the interior wall was based with OIL-based paint. At least that's what they told me.

So what's the best paint to use now? I read in the archives that someone once had to put on NINE coats of One-Shot as the wall kept soaking it up. Anyone ever use Japan colors? Need to add a "vehicle" like Chromatic Clear Overcoat Varnish to Japan colors? Or just used oil-based house paint?

Thanks again!

------------------
"Workin'hard...or hardly workin'?"

Peter Manzolillo
Jet Signs
Long Island, NY
jet22@mailcity.com

Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :

Peter,

If the wall has been painted with an oil based paint, it is highly unlikely that the wall will soak-up any more paint. If Iwere in your shoes, I'd be using One Shot lettering enamel. Doing that, I'd not worry about clear coating either.

------------------
Compost Happens!

:) Design is Everything! :)
Glenn Taylor
in beautiful North Carolina

http://members.tripod.com/taylor_graphics
walldog@geeksnet.com

Posted by Deb Fowler (Member # 1039) on :

hello,

I think you may have read my post about the nightmare of the nine coats!
It is refreshing to see someone so careful with a new technique! good for you!
My particular wall for the Jazzercise club was NOT coated with an oil base or enamel. It was a flat, porous paint, so what you have on yours is what SHOULD do well with the one shots or oil base. That should not absorb your paint by any means, but to make sure, DO A TEST PATCH ON AN INCONSPICUOUS CORNER, with a matching paint, perhaps, and that way, you won't have to guess.
I didn't do a test because I have worked on so many latex coated walls and this was the first that I couldn't retain the gloss. I will not take anything for granted anymore, of course,( even the customer's measuring a job). I just double check on what I am dealing with. Oil-based paints will hold the enamels if they were painted coated properly.

If I could make a suggestion if using enamels: if you are blending and need a little extra time to keep the paint moist, Penetrol will slow down the drying process. On the other hand, if you need to speed it up, Japan Drier was great (especially in lettering boats that needed to return to the water very soon after painting). And of course, the directions must be followed or you can experiment on time other than a job to see what you like.
Hope this helps. I used acrylics for interiors for the most part.

------------------
Deborah Fowler
Creative Signs, Ohio
"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day: Teach a man to fish, he'll eat for a lifetime."

Posted by Daniel R. Perez (Member # 1585) on :

Ditto to all the above.
If you use 1-shot and need to kill the gloss, there is a flattening paste you can add, or you can apply a clear flat over the whole thing. If you need names and numbers, e-me and I'll get 'em for ya.

------------------
There is nothing new under the sun. What will be has already been and has been will be again.
Daniel R. Perez
Daniez Dzines
Fresno, CA
daniez@netzero.net

Posted by Adrienne Pereira (Member # 1046) on :

Sorry , but I disagree with (almost) all of the above.....
Excuse me, but didn't the man just explain he was doing an INTERIOR mural? And does this mean someone MAY be breathing the air thereabouts?
I don't know about the majority of people, but if I had to spend a conciderable (more than 20 minutes)amount of time in an enclosed (even with a window open) room I would not only get a tremendous headache, but I don't think my client would apprieciate the toxic fumes either, especially if it's a private home or restaurant.
It's unfortunate that the wall is oil based, but as Bobby said it can be primed with a latex accepting primer before painting with acrylics, latex, etc.
Ask Dan Sawatzky, he is a water based paint muralist too and he has most likely delt with this delema.
As for technique I paint a lot like Bobby with the use of spray bottles and a wide veriety of brushes and rollers. What ever works for me to get the results I want. Remember it's only paint and if you don't like the results with a prectice portion of the wall paint over it. It's a lot easier than it seems and soon you will get the confidence.
Be sure to figure in your expences including the priming of the oil based wall.
Go to your local Home Depot or paint shop and ask for the proper primer for your needs.
And plan on at least twice the time you think it will take, coz it always does!
I know I've just pissed a bunch of you off, but I don't think One Shot is a suitable paint for murals, especially an indoor one.
Good Luck, have fun!
Adrienne

PS, we are doing a mural here today!!

------------------
Adrienne Morgan
Splash Signs
www.splashsigns.com
"Rainkatt' on mirc chat

A PROUD sponsor of this amazing site...U can B 2!! www.letterheads.com/supporters
"If it wasn't for signs, you wouldn't know where you were!!"

836 B Southampton rd
#256
Benicia, CA 94510
707-550-4553 (vm)
adrienne@splashsigns.com

Posted by Daniel R. Perez (Member # 1585) on :

I think it's fortunate that the wall is oil-based, because now you can come back on top of that with anything oil based. I prefer to work with oils. A few fumes just comes with the territority. It has to be arranged with the owner's of the new mural and you, the artist, as to when would be the most appropriate time for everyone involved and then just do it.
Of course, you'll have to ventillate properly.
------------------
There is nothing new under the sun. What will be has already been and has been will be again.
Daniel R. Perez
Daniez Dzines
Fresno, CA
daniez@netzero.net

[This message has been edited by Daniez (edited July 06, 2000).]

Posted by Mark Fair Signs (Member # 289) on :

i have too agree with adrienne,
interior murals are best done with water based paints. (acrylics)
and after seeing dan sawatsky's mural work on
brick walls, i have to agree with his method.(awesome)

the great thing about acrylics is the fact they are "forgiving", in other words one can re-work areas quickly because of drying time.

in outdoor advertising as a pictorial guy, i was taught to use any tool nessesary to achieve the texture, i.e. brush, sponge, rags,
shirt sleeves and elbows.

regardless of the medium you use, don't be afraid to "work it".

knowing how far to go and when you should stop has always been the sign of a good artist.

1-shot has it's place for sure...
the 2' x 3' masonite panel below was rendered in 1-shot bulletin color.

as far as priming an exsisting interior wall that previously painted with oil base enamel,
i use bulleye 123 water based primer.
just about anything will stick to this stuff.(LOL)

see, i can be serious!!!!

mark

------------------

Mark Fair

Mark Fair Signs
http://www.markfair.com

I Don't Work... I dis-PLAY

2162 Mt. Meigs Road
Montgomery, Alabama 36107
334-262-4449

mark@markfair.com

"Mark Fair is a Proud Contributor to The Letterhead Site!"

[This message has been edited by Mark Fair Signs (edited July 06, 2000).]

Posted by LazyEdna (Member # 266) on :

My advice is to make sure you keep a consistant light source in your work, and watch that aerial perspective!

------------------
LazyEdna
in RL known as Sara Straw
from southern Utah
5 National Parks within 3 hours drive
Red Rock Heaven

Posted by Mark Fair Signs (Member # 289) on :

an aerial perspective of lazy edna...

LOL

------------------

Mark Fair

Mark Fair Signs
http://www.markfair.com

I Don't Work... I dis-PLAY

2162 Mt. Meigs Road
Montgomery, Alabama 36107
334-262-4449

mark@markfair.com

"Mark Fair is a Proud Contributor to The Letterhead Site!"

Posted by Gailforce (Member # 152) on :

i would prime over the wall. i use B.I.N. or Bullseye. then go at it with acrylics. i use alot of latex housepaint and then do airbrush detailing with auto air.

i like to use floetrol with my housepaints for better flow and longer wetness (not much longer though )

then i spray on the clearcoat. only because the airbrush sections are fairly delicate. if i need more than a couple light coats, i'll roll on the next layers.

just remember. you can always paint over it

------------------
airhead by day. pizza queen by night :)
Gailforce Graphics
Squamish, BC, Canada
www.gailforce.homestead.com

Posted by Deb Fowler (Member # 1039) on :

NAW,

Well, you CERTAINLY DIDN't piss ME off, Adrienne,
my mural from the cat of nine tails (just kidding) was one of the few interior jobs I did. Now, I am very health and environmentally conscious and need some info on how to go back into the interior scene. There are a variety of customers asking for interior murals now. I prefer safe acrylics now and am ignorant about newer water and acrylic based paints (not embarrassed) and want to know all of the safe, good substrates to use! My lungs are a lot clearer and my body has detoxed since I have used 80 percent more vinyl and such.
When using one shot, it is only rare, but lots, and lots, and lots of ventilation!
Hooray for new products in the past 15 years and thank you for your concern!
from the heart as always.
Deb

------------------
Deborah Fowler
Creative Signs, Ohio
"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day: Teach a man to fish, he'll eat for a lifetime."

UBB.classic™ 6.7.2