Some people's kids? The Town of Banff planning department has been approving signs (everything from store front signs to sculpted add-ons) made out of H.D.U. for the past ten years. Now a "new" planning officer sits behind the desk and refuses to approve H.D.U. signs. The 'design guidlines' (not the by-laws) states "signs should, whenever possible, be constructed of natural materials" so this pencil neck has taken this to mean that signs must be made of wood, period. (even if they are completly painted) HE (not the by-laws) feels that because Banff is a National Park and a World Heritage Site H.D.U. has no place here. Logic and reasoning has had no effect on this buracrat so needless to say I applied for a sign on my building, it was refused, and now it's off to the development appeal board. What I need is for any other letterheads that have had signs made of H.D.U. approved in a National Park or a World heritage Site to e-mail me a short note stating that H.D.U. was approved I can be reached at larry@banffsignco.com . I need to prove that this substrate is used and accepted world wide so I can get this butt kissin', T crossin', I dottin' @#!*#@ off my back!
Larry Whan Banff Sign Coampany Ltd. Banff, Alberta Canada World Heritage Site
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Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Larry,
While I have not had the opportunity to do an HDU signs for parks and such, I have had plenty of experience with the legal end of things. If the town planning department has been approving HDU for the past 10 years, then they have set a precedent. To deny HDU now would require the town to state specifically in the town ordinance that HDU may no longer be used.
Here is another thought....what about fire hazard. I don't know how HDU compares to wood in terms of fire resistance but it might be something worth checking in to. This would give you some additional leverage in the matter. A few years back, our town's building inspector took it upon himself to deny a permit for a sign made from MDO because it wasn't a fire retardent material. Nevermind the fact that the majority of wall signs for storefronts were made from A/C plywood as well as MDO at the time. I went before the city council about the matter. They approved the material and told the inspector that common sense must be used in the future.
------------------ Compost Happens!
:) Design is Everything! :) Glenn Taylor in beautiful North Carolina
Glenn hit it on the head. You have 10 years of precedents. Re-read the ordinance, permit wording, whatever it is called. If it doesn't say 'no HDU'...go before the city council and restate your feelings...they are his boss. Good luck! Mick Samsel
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Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
This post is scary because its the kind of reasoning that has the potential to threaten us all at any time. My area isn't a national park but has lots of approval boards and committees with the ability to deny a permit based on their personal aestetics or 'feelings' about a material. That is just wrong. It should be criminal.
I wonder if one of the HDU manufacturers like Coastal Enterprises has background on similar cases and how they were resolved. They could be a resource for you. Good luck.
I know around here the Parks Dept, Forest Service, and Bureau of Land Management use a lot of fiberbrite and a "plastic" kind of wood material.
------------------ Greg Gulliford aka MetroDude Metro Signs and Banners 1403 N. Greene St. #1 Spokane, WA 99202 509-536-9452
mail@metrosignsandbanners.com
Posted by banffsignguy on :
thanks kids I tried to explain to Mr. Brown that a president had been set, but he is hell bent on saving the world (but not the trees) as for fire resistance I got the fire tests done by costal enterprises and the stuff is good to over 250 c (they used it as insulstion on the space shuttle) When i win the appeal i intend to get the by-law rewritten to allow HDU and Medex (which will probably be his next target) Larry
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Posted by Spud (Member # 1590) on :
Larry, In the catalog (they call it a brochure) from Sign-Foam II, there are photos on page 32 of a couple of large signs in the Glen Canyon National Park. They were made by Aspen Design of Show Low, Arizona. Phone number is 520-537-3938. Good luck, pal. Some people really s#*@.
------------------ Mike Kelly theSignWorx Ashburnham, MA 978.827.4439 thesignworx@hotmail.com
Posted by Mike O'Neill (Member # 470) on :
I don't know about your neck of the woods, but around here I've found that when dealing with petty bureaucrats and municipal officials it's often easier to beg forgiveness rather than ask permissions.
"The best things in life aren't things" Art Buchwald
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
We had a pea-brained old barnacle in our local historic district commission who tried to bullyrag the committee into outlawing HDU about two years ago. I took two identical sample signs to a hearing, and asked the panel to VISUALLY pick which was wood and which was HDU. Needless to say, they could not do it! Then I asked committee members to pick up each sign and decide, based on their respective weights, which one they would rather have hanging overhead on a windy day. I didn't convince the old goat, but the rest of the committee outvoted him, and he resigned in protest. You can probably tell how much we miss him.
By the way, among the other things I argued was a list of things that should also be outlawed because of "lack of historic authenticity". They included plate glass, latex paint, asphalt roof shingles, electric lights, automobiles, telephones, central heating... you get my drift.
Another point... so what if they "outlaw" HDU? Who's going to know what a given sign is made of, unless you tell them? Personally, I have absolutely no moral qualms about lying to these petty Stalins that infest the public sector like fleas on a dog. They deserve it. And they will lie through their teeth to YOU, or anyone else, if it serves their personal agenda.
------------------ "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Raoul Duke (Hunter S. Thompson)
Cam Finest Kind Signs 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988"
[This message has been edited by Cam Bortz (edited June 30, 2000).]
