The Letterville BullBoard: Carving Questions

This is topic Carving Questions in forum Old Archives at The Letterville BullBoard.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
http://www.letterville.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/13/184.html

Posted by Jack Davis (Member # 1408) on :

I imagine that a carver could walk up to a sculptured sign and identify their particular cut style and each would have their own originalities, at least that is the way in the art sculpture world. First of all I notice that most of the carved letters are cut into a v bottom. My first question is would your cut be a sharp v bottom or a rounded v bottom, and would you normally cut the letter as smooth as you possibly could and maybe even sand it, or would you leave as nice of textured surface as possible with carefully planned cuts. Being a beginner at this I have tried several cuts, and prefer the one with some carved character to it, or at least on my first batch of tries. I have tried sanding the letter surfaces, filling the surfaces, trying to smooth cut them the first time, and just about everything that I can imagine. I saw these signs up close in New England several years ago, but I don't remember these details. I am from the midwest and would maybe like to travel back to New England to a workshop if anyone knows of any affordable ones, or just to work as a free apprentice for beginning experience for 2 or 3 days. I'm always looking for any excuse to get back up there. One more question. I am using a friend carving tools now. They are octagonal handled swiss made chisels, Pfeil, and are very nice. I will be purchasing some soon, but wondered if you had any buying suggestions, for maybe even the stubby sets of wider chisels that fit in one's hand palm. or the knives that one shouldn't bewithout. I'm also a trade woodturner, so I understand the need for good equiptment, and because of the great expense don't want to buy any useless ones or any that I could do just as well without. Thanks a lot for any info. Bronzeo

------------------
Jack Davis
1410 Main St
Joplin, MO 64801
bronzeo@prodigy.net
http://www.imagemakerart.com

Posted by Bernice Tornquist (Member # 16) on :

Jack, I can't help with carving advice...I'm sure many can here, but I wanted to point out the Letterhead meet in CT, June 23-25...Cam Bortz' post....there's the excuse to go there you were looking for.

------------------
Bernice Tornquist
Bernice's Signs & Graphics
Choiceland, SK Canada
tornquist@sk.sympatico.ca

Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :

I suppose that whether the letters are perfectly smooth or have "character" is up to the individual. I personally strive to have the letters as smooth as possible.

Most of the incised lettering is in the form of a sharp V, although this too may be an area of preference. The V is cut very shallow to allow for greater brilliance when gold leaf is applied. Dusty Yaxley in New Port Richey,Florida, cuts his lettering with a modified V-chisel and is a joy to watch. He handles a chisel just like a painter does a brush. Others build up the letter with a series of side cuts using a straight chisel.

A video is available for incised lettering from Fine Woodworking - you can order through SignCraft Magazine. Paul White in Sandwich, Ma. has a course in carving - see ad in SignCraft. Jay Cooke in Stowe, Vermont also teaches (1-802-253-8402).

The chisels that I use are Swiss and I get them at Woodcraft stores.

Hope this helps to get you started.

------------------
Chapman Sign Studio
Temple, Texas
rchapman@vvm.com

Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :

Jack, we will definitely be doing some carving at out meet in Stonington Ct. June 23-25. Don't skimp on tools; a decent woodcarving set will cost about $150 and should include seven or eight tools. Learning to carve with inappropriate chisels is like trying to learn brushlettering with a sash brush; you can do it, but it's a pain!
explaining tools is difficult without showing you what's what.

------------------
"A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Raoul Duke (Hunter S. Thompson)

Cam
Finest Kind Signs
256 S. Broad St.
Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379
"Award winning Signs since 1988"

Posted by Steve Purcell (Member # 1140) on :

Jack,
Get yourself a 14mm #13 "Swiss Made" parting tool from Woodcraft. http://www.woodcraft.com/woodcraft/homepage.asp
This is the best tool on the market (other than custom made) for letterwork.

Ashley Isles, Frog, & Acorn (Henry Taylor) are also good choices, but Swiss Made gets my vote for most of the common profiles.

Practice carving letters in a soft, tight grained wood like bass, sugar pine, or eastern white. If you first learn to carve in HDU then you'll lack the discipline & technique to sculpt wood.

Just like with slingin' a brush, you're going to have to pay some dues before it becomes second nature. Good luck, & don't give up.

------------------
Purcell Woodcarving & Signmaking
spurcell99@mediaone.net
Cape Cod, MA

Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :

Hi Jack, I know a few carvers on the Cape and everyone has their own methods.

One guy only uses double sided flat chisels and makes long flowing strokes much like you would use a quill for painting.

My partner Dick who does all our v-carving studied with Jay Cooke and uses his method of chiseling from the edge of the stroke toward the center in a series of short strokes. As time goes on we are tending to leave many of the individual chisel marks intact rather than sand them smooth. It cannot be mistaken for a machine routed sign. One of our signature features isn't the carving, but our glassy smooth high gloss backgrounds where most others in this area favor flat or semi-gloss finishes.

Another shop we know has a particular method of applying their gold leaf that we can spot instantly - they wrap their size up over the edge of the 'V' onto the background slightly, which makes it look almost like it's outlined in another shade of gold. Neat.

Did I hear you right you would like to intern for 2 or 3 years for free? We might be able to accept an apprentice on those terms. Oh, that was DAYS! Well, if you want to learn this stuff in 2 or 3 DAYS, you better get to the Yankee bash in June. Cam has some nifty chisel techniques of his own to demonstrate. Hope to see you there.

------------------
Joe Rees
Cape Craft Signs
(Cape Cod, MA)
http://www.capecraft.com
http://www.dave-joe-show.com
e-mail: joerees@capecraft.com

Posted by Tom Rose (Member # 606) on :

I'm no " Jay Cooke" ( but I do use his primer! ) but I do a few carved and goldleafed signs per year. I do both redwood and signfoam.
About 17 years ago, I read an article about carving using a single KNIFE which has a nice wooden handle, and the blade can be adjusted in or out of the handle. I forgot where I got it but I still have it and it works for me.

The technique is to take shavings in each direction, starting at a center line of the letter. You do in fact wind up with an irregular look with a " V " groove bottom.
Of late I have been using a competer cut mask as a guide for my cutting area.

All in all I like this method, as there is only one tool to sharpen and learn.
Another tip is to use greater spacing between the letters than usual, so you don't get the glare of letters that are too close.
Carving time per 4" letter runs about 20 minutes for me in redwood, less in signfoam.

Give it a shot!

------------------
Tom Rose
1938 Model Sign Dude
Proud to be a Letterhead Supplier ( Books & Videos )
T.Rose Signs Whitehall,PA
610-264-2541
E-mail tomrose@fast.net

Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :

I've always prefered carving with chisels rather than the Murphy Knife. I also like the chip carving methods better than carving with a parting tool. I just bought a new parting tool from Woodcraft and that one chisel was around a hundred bucks.

Sometimes we carve into the "V" with a small gouge (perpendicular to V) so we can have more facets to reflect light.

The hairline gold on the surface will reflect light when the incized stroke inside it is shadowed, making the entire letter easier to read.

A sharp tool should make sanding unnecessary.

Trick with roman letters is blending the different width strokes. the wider strokes are deeper, and the narrow strokes we tend to get a bit steeper on the angle with to get a bit closer to the depth of the thick strokes.

Have any of you folks discovered the visible grinding wheels for doing your sharpening?

------------------
The SignShop
Mendocino, California
"Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"

[This message has been edited by Rick Sacks (edited March 24, 2000).]

Posted by Jack Davis (Member # 1408) on :

Well, after 3 days of practice, I am getting much better and faster. A four inch D, about 10 minutes, and an 8 inch about 20. I am leaving a little chiseling look for the mixed refraction as my audience thinks its better......What chisel curve and width is best for cutting smooth straight lines with a slight chiseling pattern? The straight one gouges the corners, and obviously I don't have the one I need. They have some with just a slight curve which looks to be the one but their is a lot of variety to choose from. I have been using a friends set, and he doesn't have that particular one. They are Pfiel brand I believe. Rather expensive.

------------------
Jack Davis
1410 Main St
Joplin, MO 64801
bronzeo@prodigy.net
http://www.imagemakerart.com

Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :

Jack, try using the straight chisel for the inside if curves, and the curved (subtle gouge) for the outside curves. I always drive the chisel straight down for a centerline too. This makes a relief cut enabling the cut to not go too deep or chip past the center.

------------------
The SignShop
Mendocino, California
"Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"

Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :

As I remember, Paul White and Jay Cooke sell chisels at their workshops.

You could buy from them or call either of them to find out what is the best tool available at the time. The quality from brand to brand varies yearly, so what was the best steel last year might not be the one to buy now.

------------------
The SignShop
Mendocino, California
"Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"

UBB.classic™ 6.7.2