The Letterville BullBoard: Outlines, Shades, Shadows and Special Effects

This is topic Outlines, Shades, Shadows and Special Effects in forum Old Archives at The Letterville BullBoard.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
http://www.letterville.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/13/107.html

Posted by Ken Henry (Member # 598) on :

Way back when I first began to letter signs, one of my mentors gave me some very sage advice regarding the creation of effective signage. Like all newbies, I had a tendancy to overdo any new effect that I learned, to the point where I was putting shades on text that didn't really warrant it. He explained that you don't have to throw every trick that you know at every sign to make it stand out. Less is more, he used to say, and it did take me some time to comprehend the wisdom of his words, and reign-in those practices.

Nowdays, I'm beginning to see signs that make extensive use of outlines, shades, combinations of both, and even multiple shades in some cases.What I'd like to see, is some form of reference guidelines for usage of these added enhancements to layouts. What do you favour when adding a shade, outline, convexing a line, or airbrushing a fade?
Sometimes, I've seen outline/shade combinations that actually overpower the words they are intended to enhance. Do you follow , or have you established any sorts of "rules of thumb" when you decide to add embelishment to your work? This is probably another one of those things that we tend to do automatically, without actually analyzing why we have made a certain decision in this area. What works for you, and why???

------------------
Ken Henry
Henry & Henry Signs
London, Ontario Canada
(519) 439-1881
e-mail kjmlhenry@home.

10,000 sperm swimming for that egg...and I won!

Posted by Mike Languein (Member # 319) on :

A shade will hide a multitude of sins. The mark of an artist is knowing when to stop. If it isn't NECESSARY leave it off.
(and do you know why it takes ALL those sperms to fertilize 1 egg? None of them will stop and ask directions!)

------------------
SignMike

Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :

Hi Ken,

I agree, there at times are so many special effects that you lose focus on what was to be the main focus to begin with. Digital printing in the wrong hands can be quite a mess.

This would be a sample guideline list in my shop. My customers don't always approve it, however on most work I try.

Shadows
Hold hand up to background where text will be located, and your actual hand shadow would be the true shadow color for your text. If text looks to thick when using squint test, shadow needs lightening and/or thinning up. Preferrably no shadow at all if not needed. Not everything needs a shadow.

Outlines
Just thick enough and thin enough to survive the squint test. Color to not overpower the text, it would be 2nd in importance. Preferrably no outline at all if possible if text is strong enough on it's own. Not everything needs an outline.

Mandatory Squint Test
Squint at all design work. If the special effects, colors etc. create conflict with main message, tone it down.

Colors
Not more than 3 on a logo unless designed in full color. Too expensive for customer output later on.

Mute down colors if possible. Muted tones tend to stay in style longer and have a professional feel to them.

Interesting post. I look forward to other's comments.

------------------
Graphic Impact
located in BC Canada
gisigns@sprint.ca

Posted by Dan Antonelli (Member # 86) on :

Ken,

I try and address some of your questions regarding lettering effects in my logo design book (which, by the way, should be out in 8 weeks). In it, I talk about lettering effects as they apply to the design of logos. But whether they be used on logos, or signage, the issue is the really the same.

Donna (as always) makes several good points regarding lettering effects.

Some of the issues I try and address are the overuse of lettering effects, and people's attempts to use them to enhance distance legibility. The key is to design something that needs NO effects at all to enhance its legibility. If the design is too dependent on shades, outlines, or airbrushing for cohesive distance legibility, then its basic design is lacking.

The same also applies to not just lettering effects, but also to color choice. If you print your color design off a B&W laser printer, you'll be able to tell right away if you've made good color decisions. Likewise, if your design needs specific colors to "work", than your initial design is probably missing something.

If possible, design first in B&W, and then add color. Its easy to convert shades of grey, and their appropriate tonal values, to actual colors, once the design is finalized....

See Mike Steven's book to get good tonal comparisons of one-shot colors.

On a personal note, a lot of my logo designs employ a multiple of effects - shades, prisms, outlines, double outlines - all sorts of "stuff". Some of them overstep the bounds of good design, for sure. But a good majority of them will work without all the "hoopla."

The one thing that was interesting to note as I researched the book, was upon examining nearly 100 of my own logos, it was clear that there was always room for improving them. And sometimes that improvement was the deletion of an effect. Perhaps that makes me more mature of an artist. Or guilty of earlier on in my career, as you stated Ken, that I was trying to put too many tricks in my design work.

Having said that, when I designed the cover for the book (its on my web site if you'd like to see) I initially had a very simple two color design. Then I said to myself, "what's going to catch people's eye - a simple clean layout, or the same layout all 'tricked' out?" I opted for the fancy, tricked out version for marketing reasons!

Dan

------------------
Dan Antonelli
Graphic D-Signs, Inc.
Union, NJ
www.graphicd-signs.com
dan@graphicd-signs.com

"You won't get wise with the sleep still in your eyes, no matter what your dream may be" - Rush

Posted by Brad Ferguson (Member # 33) on :

Dan,

Your comment on using a black-and-white laser printer to gauge color choice is excellent.
Looking forward to your book.

Brad in Arkansas

------------------
Brad Ferguson
4782 West Highway 22
Paris AR 72855
501-963-2642
signbrad@cswnet.com

Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :

Hi Ken, My input isn't about effects per se, but an age old trick that can get easily overlooked. The lowly but lovable THUMBNAIL SKETCH.

In the rush to get started on a new design project it is tempting to start entering type on your monitor, pull in some clipart and play around with it to try to get ideas.

Don't.

Take a few moments to start first with a pencil and paper and your brain. And work small. You're only playing with basic elements at first. Details can come much later.

Most logos or layouts can be broken into a few basic components which can be represented by rectangles, ovals and triangles, etc. A rectangle may represent a headline or block of descriptive copy. A circle may represent a graphic. A half dozen quick thumbs need only take 5 minutes but will usually narrow down ideas to 1 or 2 worthy of developing further.

The one area thumbs really pay off for me is in setting white space in my layouts. When you work very small with shapes in a confined area you will automatically keep far away from the edges or it will look crowded. How to prioritize the copy also becomes more obvious.

In my youth I was a master at filling up every possible inch of space on a panel with doo-dads, gee-gaws and fru-fra. Boy was I good. Over the years my margins have gotten larger and larger. And so has the impact of my designs. Thumbnails are our friend.

------------------
Joe Rees
Cape Craft Signs
(Cape Cod, MA)
http://www.capecraft.com
http://www.dave-joe-show.com
e-mail: joerees@capecraft.com

Posted by PKing (Member # 337) on :

Good topic to discuss.
I belive that Shadeing should be used to bring a subject to the foreground.Or what needs to be seen FIRST.This is also accomplished with color.Remember:we are not merely putting letters on signs,rather we are advertising for the customer,wether it be his building identification,or the product he is selling!There is a reason that some signs are reffered to as visual pollution.The human eye is lazy and will be bored with one color plain type just as much as it will be overwhelmed by all the razzel dazzel.You will wind up with the same effect of NOT bothering to read the message.
On the other hand, simple eye appeal,pleasent to the eye,color enhanced,visable letters will be read more often.I sometimes think that maybe sign people are making signs for OTHER sign people to look at.Rather than do what we are being payed for.That would be to ADVERTISE for our customers so he can make more money!
IF you are going to take the time and energy to learn the trade,produce the work,AND get payed for it.I belive we should at least earn our money.

------------------
PKing is
Pat King of
King Sign Design in
McCalla,Alabama
The Professor of
SIGNOLOGY

Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :

At this time, I'll re-post something pertanent from the past......

Posted by Terry Bull Signs Designs on February 02, 1996 at 14:58:56:

In Reply to:HELVETICA: what's your favorite substitute?
posted by Mike Jackson on January30, 1996 at22:10:36:

I don't know about the rest of you but here at Terry Bull Signs we have a favorite typeface we like to use for secondary copy of even for all copy. In my mind nothing impacts like Old English. We like to use it in it's boldest version in all caps. It really gives our layouts that old tyme Robin Hood look so popular these days. Using a new layout technique we like to call the arc along with Old English, we have had tremendous success in exciting ruff and tuff truckers everywhere. They tell us this look makes them feel like Sir Galahad himself as they mount their steel steeds to do battle on our highways. Old English should always be rendered in some color with real eye appeal like
rocket red floresant or pea soup green. A snake skin vinyl can often be just the ticket, often matching our truckers boots. In the future it is our goal to learn to render Old English in that new fangled chrome look. My heart races just to think about it! I'll bet Steve & Barb would feature my work in the Letterhead Website. Put in a good word for me.

------------------
The SignShop
Mendocino, California
"Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"

Posted by Santo (Member # 411) on :

I like this post. I'm always in trouble with my own over use and my clients' ideas. I am learning to control myself slowly. The clients keep coming up with these "cereal box" shaded, faded, shadowed and streched ideas. Let us know when the book hits the shelves, Dan.

------------------
Santo Brocato
Promotion Graphics & Letters
Houma, (Bayou Country) LA.
We don't want any churchs, they will only teach us to argue about God...Cheif Joseph

Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :

I've gotta agree with Pat King on this one. The whole idea of sign work is advertisement or identification. If it's attractive and works, great, it should. If it's real pretty but doesn't work, what good is it. Kinda like a stunningly beautiful secretary that can't type.
I've noticed a big gap in sign work today as far as effectiveness goes. The good signs are REALLY good, the bad signs are unbeliveably horrible, to the point where the only way you can read them is letter by letter. Now that works great tooling down the highway at 60 mph!
As far as my usage of special effects, I tend to go along with Donna's guidelines. The big heavy dropshadows that everybody seems to really like work best on mid range colors.

------------------
George Perkins
Millington,TN.
goatwell@ixlmemphis.com

"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"

http://goatwell.tripod.com

Posted by Sarah Clark (Member # 413) on :

°

[This message has been edited by Sarah (edited August 12, 2000).]

Posted by frankie frankelfort (Member # 1341) on :

You can not read white letters on a back gound of pale gray. A charcoal painted shadow will often save the day. Some darker colored outline will add and give it jazz... that second little added touch will be enough pizazz.
But white on black has no real need for extra work to read. Embellish here for "gingerbread" if you feel the need. Don't forget who pays you, and has it been enough, to do the extra outlining and all that other stuff?
Don't forget your focal point...is primary indeed. Give this the highest contrast...don't make it hard to read. Make secondary copy fit into its proper place; without such heavy contrast and a far lighter type face.

frankie

------------------
frankie

Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :

Donna has a good point about the Squint test. but if you tell your customer to look at their signage this way they are wondering if you are trying to hide something from them.
You can purchase a DE-mangnifier glass that will create the illusion of distance to the sign to give you a better over all view.
As for shades and effects...
Main copy Yes..
Secondary copy sometimes.
Third copy NEVER.

------------------
Raven/2000
Airbrushed by Raven
Lower sackville N.S.
deveausdiscovery@sprint.ca

Posted by Ken Henry (Member # 598) on :

Hi there folks, and thank you for your replies. One thing that I've been using of late, has been to add a wee bit of shading black to clear...plus a bit of the background colour to slightly tint the shading clear. If you use this as your shade or outline, it results in a nice effect that never overpowers the copy that it's used on. The shade is there...just giving a bit of a lift to the primary copy only, and it relates to the background very well. It's much as Donna described the shadow that results when you put your hand in close proximinity to the background.

As a matter of curiousity, has anyone tried using a perspective shade?? This can really push the primary copy foreward and assist in priorizing the main feature.
PS: I kinda liked Frankie's response in prose ...rather different, but definately got his point accross.

------------------
Ken Henry
Henry & Henry Signs
London, Ontario Canada
(519) 439-1881
e-mail kjmlhenry@home.

10,000 sperm swimming for that egg...and I won!

[This message has been edited by Ken Henry (edited February 01, 2000).]

Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :

Ken,

What I have been trying to do is imitate the things I see on product advertising...like what is on a ceral box or a Playstation game box. Duplicating some of the effects commercial designers use in a sign situation is kinda fun...because it takes on a whole new twist sometimes.
Anyway, I almost never sit down and try to think up color combinations from scratch. I start by looking at what works or what doesn't work in pictures in the sign trade magazines ( for the type of sign in the right situation we are making )

one weird thing I do is save advertising if I like it. I have tons of ceral boxes, pizza wrapers, magazine headers....just cut out the part I like and toss it in my "idea drawer"

------------------
Go Get 'Em..... :)
AKA Raptorman on #Letterheads mIRC Chat
Draper The Signmaker
Bloomington Illinois USA

Proud 2-yr. $upporter of this Web Site (May 1999-May 2001)

Posted by LazyEdna (Member # 266) on :

oh GAWD, Dave, you save packaging too!!!
I have the stuff crammed EVERYWHERE... what's worse.. is my daughter thinks you're just supposed to save ANY wrapper, so her room is full of candy wrappers, drink cans, empty snack sacks... YEAUGHHHHHHHhh!
Actually.. my cereal box collection is my pride... I have all the really fancy ones saved, you know.. with the holographic printing... how about that MILLENEOS box, eh? They must spend about 40 times the cost of the contents on those boxes! What does that TELL YOU! Art is VALUABLE!
BTW, is your *idea box* bigger than your garage? Curious minds want to know.
LE

------------------
LazyEdna
in RL known as Sara Straw
from southern Utah
Red Rock Heaven

Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :

When I first started in this business, I put a dropshade and heavy outline on every word that I lettered. Some of em looked okay, some of em didn't. But, over time, I learned what works best and when. I tend to always use darker backgrounds, as the lettering is easier to read from a distance, and on the main copy,I almost always apply an outline, dropshade,or both. On the darker backgrounds, I use tinting clear with black added to create a subtle shade, and I keep the size down as to not overpower the lettering. Same with the outline, unless I want the copy to jump out fast,and then I'll double the outline for a more graphic approach. I use all the tricks I can to make the sign look better, so the customer will be pleased. But , that of course depends on what type of sign you're doing. A sign for a beauty shop would tend to be more showy than one for a law office. I have been a signpainter for 16 years, and I get carried away with paint sometimes, but I hope I have learned when enough is enough. Good post Ken.

------------------
John Deaton III
Deaton Signs&Grafix
400 May St. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-573-9101
"Grab an ol'cold tater and wait"
johnd3rd@kih.net
http://www.angelfire.com/ky2/dsigns

[This message has been edited by John Deaton III (edited February 02, 2000).]

UBB.classic™ 6.7.2