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Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :
 
I hand cut my outlines when using vinyl by cutting the letters, then applying them to the outline color, then hand cutting, weeding and applying. When I apply, even wet, I am having problems with air bubbles under the outline. WHat am I doing wrong? Is their a better way. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

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John Deaton III
Deaton Signs&Grafix
400 May St. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-573-9101
"Grab an ol'cold tater and wait"
johnd3rd@kih.net
http://www.angelfire.com/ky2/dsigns



 

Posted by David Fisher (Member # 107) on :
 
Gday John,
I dont know what you're using for a cutting program, but whatever it is I bet it has the facility to cut the outlines separately, allowing you to apply the letter and then register the outline to it (in the case of a reverse glass job)
As for the bubble problem on a normal panel, I would have thought that if you apply your outline as a solid silhouette first, then the letter over it you wouldn't have a prob.
In the perfect world the app tape would never stretch/shrink/flex etc but with a bit of jiggery pokery you can get near perfect rego between the letter and outline.
In the case of glass work again...
Theres the shrinkage of each leaving a small light gap around them but thats another small failing vinyl has that probably no one will ever notice except you and me.
I've tried cutting them fractionally oversize so as to leave a lap join but then you get back to the ridge/bubble problem.
In a lot of cases I'm not happy with the colour options in the vinyl for one or the other so I cut one and brush the other, just personal preference.
I also find that the minor imperfections in a brushed outline tend to help what might otherwise be a stiff computer layout.
Enjoy,
David

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D.A. & P.M. Fisher Signwriting
Brisbane Australia
da_pmf@yahoo.com

[This message has been edited by David Fisher (edited December 14, 1999).]
 

Posted by Pete Kouchis (Member # 343) on :
 
Hi John,
What software are you using for your letters? Most software can be used to create & cut the outlines as well. As far as the bubbles go, you can eliminate them by laying down the outline and/or shadow first. Then go back and overlay the text onto that. Although I prefer dry for everything, this is one time I've been caught doing it wet... it helps to slide the text into proper alignment over the outline before squeegeing (sp?)down.
The reason you're trapping air with your method is the squeegee cannot make full contact up into the edge where the letter meets the shadow, leaving a "halo" of air around your letters. To illustrate this, take 2 pieces of poster or PVC or any substrate 1/8" or so thick and lay one atop the other (like your layered vinyl). Now put your squeegee on it as if you were laying down the vinyl. See the gap where it doesn't make contact?
Good luck!

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Pete Kouchis
Say it with SIGNS, Inc.
Orland Park, IL, USA
Phone: (708)460-3001
Fax: (708)460-3006

Excellence is doing a common thing in an uncommon way
Booker T. Washington


 

Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :
 
John,

Actually you are not doing anything wrong, the air will escape over time.
However, try putting your shade or outline on the sign first, then place your lettering over the top of the shade.

This will eliminate almost all the air entrapment.

Anytime you put letters and outlineing or shading together before putting it on a truck door or sign, you get the problem of air entrapment around where the letter meets the shade. The only way is to layer as you go on the actual working substrate.

Practice with some scrap vinyl pieces. Observe what happens when you try applying the back piece first and overlapping with another....then try it applying both pieces already stuck together. Observe what happens and learn from it....like we all have done!!! hahahah

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Go Get 'Em..... :)
AKA Raptorman on #Letterheads mIRC Chat
Draper The Signmaker
Bloomington Illinois USA

Proud 2-yr. $upporter of this Web Site (May 1999-May 2001)


 

Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :
 
I'm using Flexicut. I do my layouts in Freehand or Typestyler(on a mac), then convert to illustrator and then cut in Flexicut. THis program does not do outlines. My mac is an older performa, as it does not have a math coprocessor which is needed for the bigger signmaking programs. So, right now, this is the way I have to do it. I understand whats happening now though, and can make some adjustments to take care of this. But, at the present time, I have to do my applications this way, but putting the lettering on the vinyl and cutting the outline, unless their is another way.

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John Deaton III
Deaton Signs&Grafix
400 May St. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-573-9101
"Grab an ol'cold tater and wait"
johnd3rd@kih.net
http://www.angelfire.com/ky2/dsigns



 

Posted by Jeff Alumbaugh (Member # 1172) on :
 
This might work sometimes, but not all the time. You'll see what I mean. Get a lighttable that's nice and bright. Go ahead and cut your copy(top layer). Tape it down on the table and lay your outline color over it and hand cut. Then you can apply by layers. Oh, and don't forget to leave some tabs of vinyl on the backing paper when you weed the first cut. Tape will not stick to the paper when you go to tape it to the table

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Jeff Alumbaugh
Ad Trendz Signs
e-mail Trendz66@aol.com
Why Zig? Zag!!!



 

Posted by Brad Ferguson (Member # 33) on :
 
John,

There is another way to do a hand cut outline without pre-assembling.
After your lettering is cut, make a paper rubbing of it with stick graphite. This can be done either before masking or after. It doesn't matter.
Then tape the rubbing onto your outline color. Hand cut through the paper.

I used to cut not only outlines and shades this way, but lettering as well, for many years. The only way I could ever get a bouncy hand-lettered-looking script or casual in vinyl was to letter it on paper first with a brush and then cut it with a knife. Often, I could tape down two layers of vinyl and cut two readings at once. Obviously, the first layer of vinyl had the backing paper cut with it, but it still saved time.
I have seen Mack Thompson of Ft. Smith, Ark., cut four sets of letters at one time. He used a sharp blade, a #21 Xacto. A #21 blade looks like a #11, but beefier.

Pete K.'s explanation above about the "halo" of air is the best explanation I've heard for the bubble problem. Even though small bubbles disappear with shrinkage, as Dave D. mentioned, it still can be frustrating.

Graphite sticks are often available in art supply stores. They are quarter inch square by about three inches long, although I have also found them quarter by half by three. Lay them on their side and you can take a rubbing of an entire truck door in about 30 seconds.

Brad in Arkansas

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Brad Ferguson
4782 West Highway 22
Paris AR 72855
501-963-2642
signbrad@cswnet.com

[This message has been edited by Brad Ferguson (edited December 15, 1999).]
 

Posted by Wizsigns (Member # 778) on :
 
John

Did I see you say on some post that you have CorelDraw - If that is the case then you can do your outlines in Corel 8 or 9 and export them to your cutting program as an eps or an ai file.

I like to work in Corel for all my design work because it is then my main copy of the design. I then get a copy in the form of an eps file and then I save again the file as a Signlab file. The Eps files I don't keep - I get rid of them all when there is 40 - 50 in the folder.

What I do have by this method of working is a really good back up system, two sets of files on different computers on the network.
When the computer hard disk fails I won't have to pull my hair out.

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David Allen
Wizard Signs - It's a kind of magic!
ICQ 3467358
Email wizsigns@esatclear.ie
ICQ Pager 3467358@pager.icq.com
www.esatclear.ie/~davidallen/wizard.htm
Resident of Letterville


 

Posted by David Fisher (Member # 107) on :
 
Hey Brad, if you want to take your method a step further, use spray adhesive instead of taping the layout down, just clean the adhesive off with a little white spirit afterwards.
Heaps less movement and hassle.
Hust a thought,
David

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D.A. & P.M. Fisher Signwriting
Brisbane Australia
da_pmf@yahoo.com


 

Posted by Brad Ferguson (Member # 33) on :
 
David F.,

Using spray adhesive is a good idea. If you don't get it on too heavy to begin with, it should come off easily.
Movement can be a problem when you're taping a pattern down, especially on skinny strokes. And you always have to remember to cut the middle of an "O" or an "A" before you cut the outside or you got problems.
I was never able to cut through four layers of vinyl successfully. Even if I cut the top layer perfectly, each layer down got progressively rattier.

Brad in Arkansas

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Brad Ferguson
4782 West Highway 22
Paris AR 72855
501-963-2642
signbrad@cswnet.com


 

Posted by mary joe (Member # 539) on :
 
hi john-

i'm on a mac also. i do most of my layouts in illustrator, occasionally with typestyler. i use flexicut also. you should be able to create outlines in illustrator. i'll try to go through the motions. email me if you don't understand.

since you do most of your layouts in typestyle, import them into illustrator.

open them in illustrator. i usually have to fill the text, then select what point stroke i want.

from there go to 'outline paths'.

once the paths are outlined i go to 'unite'.

walah! there you have it. (i think).

hope this helps.
mj

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Mary Joe
MJ Design
Trenton, MI
mjgrafix@ili.net

 



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