Last year a small rural fire house was built on our road. We pushed and fund raised for many years to get this. Without it all the rural homesteads on our ridge were getting our homeowners insurance dropped. I have always donated as we can with signwork for our volunteer fire dept. I designed a couple alternatives for the new house. Our chief retired and things fell into the hands of the millenials, and one of the wives thinking of herself a designer because her mother is, came up with bleak computer types put together in a way where nothing relates to each other and there is no prioritization. My dilema is that I don't want to make the sign they want, and will not donate something that I can't put my heart into. I don't want to belittle the fire folks that like this or their wives that designed it. I don't know how to approach the situation.
Posted by Bob Kaschak (Member # 3146) on :
Rick, that is a tough one.
I would say good old honesty but in a tactful way.
If they want you to create something that you know you would never design yourself, you could just inform them (design wise, graphically speaking, in your professional opinion, etc), that, that is not the way you would approach the project and show them what you could do for them instead. If they are not interested in your ideas, then tell them you would have to pass. And with a humble smile as always, wishing them the best of luck.
I'm sure the way you would handle it, you would have nothing to feel bad about with the millennials.
Yes, what Bob said... I am getting more and more of these "new" styles of signs come across my desk. Just now we have cut out a set of the most god-awful looking letters you can imagine. At first I would pass on some of these jobs but now I am even getting them from architectural firms! I can imagine my mentors rolling over in their graves if they saw some of this "stuff". Posted by Don Hulsey (Member # 128) on :
If you are donating the sign it's fairly simple. I always design anything I donate. You can have it my way for free, or you can pay someone else to do it your way.
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
Don, you're reflecting my sentiments, however, I don't want to breach my relationship with the fire dept that has been very solid for almost half a century.
Posted by Chuck Peterson (Member # 70) on :
I was once told: "make the decision that allows you to sleep tonight." That's still not always an easy one.
Posted by Vance Galliher (Member # 581) on :
rick, just make the damn thing as they want it (of course with your adjustments that they may not even notice, but still giving them basically what they want) and you don't even have to sign it ...or use a pseudonym as some artist do
have fun with it...because as you know, if it's not fun it's not worth doing. relationships are important...
[ December 19, 2019, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: Vance Galliher ]
Posted by Alicia B. Jennings (Member # 1272) on :
Okay, you might try this line,,,That is a nice design you have there, but it is not the type of sign I produce. I have a my own method/style of sign craftsmanship. My web site/portfolio. can give you a glimse of the type of work I do. If she says she wants her design, you might have to just say, "I can't, it's not me" If that fails, you might have to hire a out-of-werk rapper Hype Man. He will come in a Hype you up. "Yo, yo yo ,yo, Rick is the man, skills like a Trazan, get yo sign quick, faster than Spudnick,,,,,
Posted by Dan Sawatzky (Member # 88) on :
We too have policy in our shop that if we are donating a sign we control all aspects of the design. If they want something else of lower quality they can pay someone else to do it. Actually that policy applies to work we get paid for too.
Our local volunteer fire department is literally across the street from us in our tiny community of Yarrow. The firehall was rebuilt and expanded a few years ago and as part of the process we volunteered to make them a shiny new sign. I did up the design and a small sample for a dimensional gold leafed sign which the volunteer crew absolutely loved.
Because the fire hall is owned by the City of Chilliwack the local crew took my proposal to the city for their official blessing. It was declined because they wanted all of the fire halls in the areal to have a similar look. (they don't) They went to another sign maker (friends of ours) and had vinyl decals applies to the windows and on the facia trim. I would say the result looks institutional to say it kindly.
The local volunteers who are great guys are still upset four years later.
I just took a deep breath at the time and moved on. You can't win them all.... not even close sometimes. We'll all live through it.
Concentrate on the important stuff - and the nice signs.
-grampa dan
Posted by Don Hulsey (Member # 128) on :
You said it is on your road, so chances are you will drive by it quite often. One other way to look at it is, there are 3 things you can think every time you pass it. Damn that looks good, Damn I can't believe I made that, or Damn I'm glad I didn't make that.
You can always explain to them that you are not comfortable putting your name on something you didn't design.
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
Hey Grandpa Dan, your experience is the nightmare that I don't want...the exact situation. Last night I sat down with the fire chief and alerted him as to what is going on. He had no idea, and was bothered by hearing it was taken out of his department. I sent him mock ups and questions and he's gonna deal with it at the next board meeting. This all started with the former chief, so as a carry over item there was much unknown. I feel good about it all now. Although I still don't understand those young folks holding the minimalist perspective???
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
Oh, Dan, the new firehouse is a mile farther up our ridge than my place, so I won't need to deal with those feelings on a regular basis. Is your family able to let it go as easily as you do? How 'bout your employees?
Posted by Dan Sawatzky (Member # 88) on :
The sample of the firehouse sign we made hangs on the wall in our shop. There have been thousands of great projects through the years that might have been but for an equal number of reasons simply go away. But there have also been so many wonderful projects that did make it off of the drawing board. These are the ones we take delight in.
All of the other ideas that never made it past the drawing board are filed away for future reference. I estimate that for every four concepts I actually draw only one will make it to reality.
Twelve years ago I drew up a concept for an Ogopogo. It's a fabled lake monster that has been reportedly sighted on occasion in the Okanagan Lakes which are about 300 miles from us. Our take is that is was actually a submarine shaped like a sea monster. Back when I dreamed up and drew the concept the prospective client paid for most of the design (90%) for a very large project. The recession of 2007/8 stopped that project dead. Since the client never paid me in full and was never heard from again (despite a number of emails and letters) I retained ownership of the designs. I filed them away for future reference.
I sold a wonderful (and very large) project to a Caribbean client based on many of these designs. He paid me for the designs too. The Ogopogo remained dormant in my files. This year a new client came forward. He had seen the scale model languishing on a shelf in my studio. That wonderfully fun design is now actually being built in our shop after all these years!
Good ideas never go bad. I keep a large file on my computer called IDEAS NEVER USED. I value those many files for there are many good ideas there. From time to time I'll pull one out and modify it for a new customer. They don't need to know the idea has been recycled.
Only count the wins and forget the losses. That keeps me happy and content!
-grampa dan
Posted by bruce ward (Member # 1289) on :
Why cant you present a side by side artwork.... yours vs hers. IF hers is chosen let another millenial that has sign connection reproduce it. Just flat out tell them if you cant produce art you wont be able to donate signwork.
Side by side art. Its being critical but with class
Posted by Alicia B. Jennings (Member # 1272) on :
I fully agree with Bruce.
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
Bruce, I did that. It will be presented to the board at their January meeting by the fire chief.
Posted by Bernice Tornquist (Member # 16) on :
Hi Rick...
“For God so loved the world, that He didn’t send a committee”.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)