A friend of a friend is a painting contractor. He sent me photo of a banner he wants me to reproduce. It is Really UGLY and everything about it is bad. Letters crowded to the edge, all the same size, just crammed together to make it all fit. The licence # is as big as his name. At least it is just black on white, so that could have been worse. So, I thought here's an opportunity to do something really nice. It didn't take me long to draw something up, fairly simple. I put a simple graphic of a paint roller painting the background of the banner and copy prioritized with colors that have some impact.
He didn't like it. He wants them just like they are. I almost walked away and told him to go to cheapo dot com or something, but it's 2 64 sq ft. banners. I can have them printed by my supplier and make a few hundred bucks and will never tell anyone I did them. This just doesn't feel right but the $ helps.
Posted by Curt Stenz (Member # 82) on :
Go for it! Keep it anonymous.
This economy isn't right, just like you don't feel right, things have changed.
Do the banners, pinch your nose and collect the check.
I don't think anyone here reading this would like it either, but it is the present world we live in.
Posted by Chuck Peterson (Member # 70) on :
Yes, but he could have had a nice design for the same price. I was hoping to sell him truck signs, cards and whatever else. Not now. I knew I would never be able to sell a logo to this guy or even explain what one is, so I don't mind spending a little time on a design he may like better than what he has. I have to do his layout anyway and the profit on the banner will easily cover my time. The last time this same thing happened with a friend of a friend, she told my friend I was "really hard to deal with". I'm sure I was, from her standpoint. People are really strange.
I just had to get this all out. OK, I'm off.
[ April 03, 2018, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: Chuck Peterson ]
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
I'm with Curt...Do what the customer insists on having and deposit the money.
But, as you say, it might be an opportunity to suggest an alternative for future work with no pressure on the customer?
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
print 'em up with the name of your competitor on the bottom and find something to misspell.
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
Give them what they want. It seems every time I tried to up sell something I ended up not only wasting my time but ****ing the customer off and losing the job. A lot of times these ugly designs are done by family members.
Posted by Bob Kaschak (Member # 3146) on :
lol to what Rick said.
Posted by Chuck Peterson (Member # 70) on :
Yes, I'll just do it and move on.
Posted by Chuck Peterson (Member # 70) on :
Well, he went away anyway. Found it cheaper. I tried.
Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
so it really ended up being a win-win for everybody!
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
I'm old and old fashioned...so, my opinion is different. I like to sleep at night.
Even without signing your name, you did it and it will be associated with you.
I've been doing this for 60 years and I've lost a lot of jobs, but I've never missed a meal. All those years I have been known as the highest priced signman in town...and the busiest.
Times may have changed, but I haven't. It's true that a lot of folks have no idea what looks good (or right), but I still do, and so do a lot of my clients.
Posted by Don Hulsey (Member # 128) on :
Amen Ray.
Posted by Chuck Peterson (Member # 70) on :
You are right, Ray. I normally do turn down that kind of work, and I almost slipped. I'm always open to making design changes I may not like, just to please the customer, but this would have been really bad. I was kind of wondering why he seemed willing to pay my higher price. Glad I didn't end up doing it. Thanks for the reminder for next time.
[ April 11, 2018, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: Chuck Peterson ]
Posted by Dan Sawatzky (Member # 88) on :
I'm not nearly as ancient or old fashioned as my good friend Raymond but I too would have politely declined this project without a second thought.
In our shop we ask ourselves five questions in regard to every single project we consider. If we get five yes answers we do the project. If not we turn it down.
The questions are as follows...
Does the project excite us? Will it bring a smile to my face and that of our crew all the way through?
Does the client trust us? That is they need to believe in my design ability as well as our ability to build them an award winning sign.
Will the sign project build our reputation? Does the project bring us closer to the direction we want to go in the future?
Will the customer give us the time we need to do it? We don't like to work overtime in our shop. A potential customer's poor planning is not our emergency.
Is there enough money? Every project takes longer than we figure. Something always goes sideways. And we always get better ideas as we proceed. We need to allow for all of this BEFORE as we work out a price. Doing so allows us to lavish the time and attention we need to every single project we tackle. In doing this we provide our customers great value and we win as well.
We decline far more projects than we take on. We send away up to 90% some years. In the process we get only the very best clients, and have the time to do our very best work. And we make money too.
We are able to provide well paid employment for five people full time and another couple of people part time.
The work we turn out of our shop makes me laugh out loud every single day. It's FUN - even after fifty years in business! I strongly believe that this formula and and continues to play a large role in our success. A good work ethic and great samples also help a great deal.
As times change I believe quality is more valuable than ever! The customers we attract agree one hundred percent!
-grampa dan
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
Dan is one of those guys that we would all like to be like...and there is no reason that we can't. All it takes is passion and a positive attitude. You'll notice that I didn't mention anything about talent. Talent is passion, I believe.
Yes, there are some that some that are born with some innate ability to sing or draw, but it is passion that develops it.
Dan is one of those people that you just like to be around. You stay around him long enough and that "talent" will rub off on you.
After 60 years, I've still not done my best work. Maybe today.
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
I just got a call from a salesman trying to convince me to buy his product. The first thing he said was that he could save me money. Never mentioned the quality of the product or the service...only that he was cheaper.
Price is never a bargaining tool - only quality. Everything else goes downhill. There will always be someone who will do it cheaper. They won't be around very long, but someone will take their place.
I've been in this location for 27 years and there have been over a dozen sign shops that have come and gone in that time.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Well said, Raymond
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
Dan said:
quote:Is there enough money? Every project takes longer than we figure. Something always goes sideways. And we always get better ideas as we proceed. We need to allow for all of this BEFORE as we work out a price. Doing so allows us to lavish the time and attention we need to every single project we tackle. In doing this we provide our customers great value and we win as well.
Even if the job you are doing isn't a "Dan Sawatzky--Knock Your Socks Off Special", there needs to be enough in the price to do a quality job. If you priced it so low that you feel pressure to cut corners because "there's just not enough money in it", you really blew the quote. Also, almost every job allows a chance to explore a little trick or technique to enhance its value and your skills. You want to be able to do that without budget pressure.
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