This sign is 2'x3' double faced, hanging sign, on black pvc. Print outgassed for more than 24 hours before I laminated it.Customer picked the sign up and drove home, which took probably an hour.They took it out and this is what they saw.The print is almost all black and I did put it on black pvc but I have similar designs mounted this way with no problem. It was close to 100 degrees that day so is the problem? I will be doing it over so suggestions on substrate or any other ideas. I like the black pvc for weight and not having to paint the edges. Thanks
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
Is it calendared vinyl-?
Posted by Tom & Kathy Durham (Member # 776) on :
It is 3m IJ35c calendared vinyl
Posted by Gary Boros (Member # 8487) on :
Tom, this could be due to a lot of different factors. First of all, unless this is a temporary sign it should be a cast vinyl with a cast laminate. If you are mixing calendared and cast materials you will likely get a result like your picture.
Also, I imagine you solvent printed it since you mentioned outgassing and plotting right to the edge of solid black ink very often will result in edge curling and failure. I don't imagine you want a white border around it so you might leave the printed graphic an 1/8" short of the edge and let the laminate go the full dimension so that it seals the edge and with a black substrate you won't even notice. Granted, this could be a little tricky to accomplish but it is possible.
Another possible cause is surface preparation prior to applying the print. Of course the surface must be clean and perhaps there was some impurity still on it. Even the oil from a hand print under the print or on the adhesive side of the print during application, when exposed to the high temperature you described, could cause such a failure.
Maybe, just maybe that spot didn't get good pressure during application and then being put in a car trunk in 100 degrees for an hour would allow it to curl off.
Though we don't like to think this would be the case, maybe your customer did something to that corner and then peeled it back and called it your fault.
Also just a side note, though I've used it many times too without any issue, if I'm not mistaken, black PVC is not rated for exterior use.
[ June 26, 2016, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: Gary Boros ]
Posted by Jean Shimp (Member # 198) on :
I find less issues with aluminum composite materials as opposed to PVC. I would use a 1/4" ACM. The edge would be solid black. The 1/4" only comes in white in my area. But that shouldn't matter if you are covering it with vinyl.
Posted by Tom & Kathy Durham (Member # 776) on :
Thanks Guys, I guess I'll back to Di-bond. Gary, I did have about 1/4' around the print to the border. Curious about you doing this and laminating to the edge. Do you mount the print and then laminate after?
Posted by Dale Feicke (Member # 767) on :
Tom, I'm suggesting a couple things..... I wouldn't use black PVC outside; it attracts heat, which could soften your vinyl adhesive.....and I've seen more than one case where the PVC itself actually bent and distorted from the heat.
Also, I wouldn't use calendared vinyl on a job like this. White PVC with HP vinyl.
Posted by Gary Boros (Member # 8487) on :
Tom, I have produced various things, applied it and then laminated it in place but usually I'll do that only for actual gold leaf vinyl striping. In a case such as yours where you have a single piece and it's a large print, I would do the following:
Produce the artwork with a cut path on the printed graphic then have another cut path 1/8" outside of that, which will be the laminate cut path.
Print the graphic and plot the 1st graphic cut path.
Remove the material from the plotter, manually cut around any plotter registration marks so they remain in place then weed the waste vinyl.
Laminate the printed graphic with the registration marks still in place.
Put the material back in the plotter and plot the 2nd cut path for the laminate then remove the material and weed all the waste, which will leave you with a printed graphic laminated with an 1/8" overlap that you now apply normally.
Posted by Gerald Barlow (Member # 3477) on :
Is it too late to mention that enamel or acrylic on painted MDO would not do this? Just sayin'.
Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
The quality of the vinyl might have had something to do with it. But if they stuck it in the trunk of the car on a 100 degree day, it might have got up to 120 and then you might have had an expansion/contraction disparity.
We have digital prints on our yard sign in front of the shop on pvc and they've been there for several years-- Oracals 3951g with 290g overlaminate.
