Well, I am starting a new post on this one, as I mentioned the cost of Photoshop in my last post.
I've been poking around more about it and have been finding out they have gone to a subscription cloud based deal for their software now.
After talking to a friend of mine who runs an advertising agency, he disclosed that he pays 75 bux per month to use all Adobe's products. Photoshop, Illy, In-Design .... etc.
I was pretty flabbergasted about paying monthly like that for software, but what he told me next floored me even more.
He says that once you hook up to this, you really can't stop using it. He said his payments are on a credit card, and when the numbers changed on that card, one of his payments to Adobe lapsed. They shut him down immediately. Now, in my eyes, being shut down would mean that you just can't open the software. But come to find out, you lose ccess to your files. (which apparently, are floating around in a cloud up there on your mile high harddrive now)
I got on Amazon to see if there were any copies of Photoshop and Illy for less, and noticed there are subscriptions being sold on there as well. The reviews on Adobe CC were mostly one stars, and the comments were crazy bad. Everything from crappy service, virtually no tech support, to being shut out of your own files.
I'm feeling like a real old timer here, because I just don't get why anyone would sign on for something like this. My friends said that they can get away with it, because they are the industry standard. It is a monopoly like the phone company, (no pay, no phone) and they can charge as much as they want. Seems Adobe has gotten quite greedy because of this, and lazy, since their lack of service and care towards their client base is appalling.
Personally, I find this kind of business practice unappealing and wish more folks would just say "no" to Adobe products and no to the cloud.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Janette...When we upgraded our laptops to Win 8.1, my old Microsoft office suite was not compatable..I had two options, I could go with a monthly payment deal or just buy Office 2013 outright for about $100-$150. I went with the one time purchase option. It was a downloadable program with the option to make back-up DVD's. MUCH more desirable to this old fart!
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
I've subscribed to the Adobe software and have no complaints. Including tax, it cost me $53.36 per month for the entire suite.
I've always maintained that it doesn't matter what it cost, but rather how much money you make with it.
Considering what I've billed out for the year so far with just Photoshop and Muse, the subscription fee is chump change.
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Glenn, if you stop the subscription, do you lose your files? I am still confused about that.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
No. The files stay wherever you put them. I keep mine on my company server.
BTW, if you need a cloud server, check out Western Digital.
I have it plugged into my network. I'm able to access my files from pretty much anywhere with any device.
[ April 22, 2015, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
one can still get cs2 as a free download
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
My monthly subscription is same as Glen's. If you use several of their programs, the cost isn't really that bad if you want to stay current considering the cost of upgrades. I don't use their cloud service so my hardware backups have all my files.
I don't think I would call it corporate greed unless you think getting sick of people hacking your security and selling illegal copies all over the place greedy. Many times I've seen people on this very site complaining about customers and sign shops ripping off their designs but then those same people will share fonts and programs with their friends. Maybe Adobe just got sick of all the theft. On the up side I always have the latest version.
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
I've been on CC for a couple of years. I actually like it, and I haven't taken advantage of the storage so everything I have is local. I use Lightroom and Photoshop daily and have been messing with Muse, Premiere, AI & Dreamweaver. I have the Lightroom app on my cell phone so I can edit and upload stock images right from the phone. My only complaint was getting my CC hacked through Adobe, but in the end it was all covered so it was just about the hassle of dealing with it.
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
I typed a long reply for this post, but realized nobody really cares what I think so I'll keep my opinion to myself. Posted by Don Hulsey (Member # 128) on :
I care what you think Don.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
I am using photoshop cs6 non subscription with no issues. Of course it may be the last available due to all future versions are cloud only. Any updates or new features are available to cloud users only.
In the future it will be, go along with the new cloud based system or look elsewhere, or continue to get by on an older version.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
adobe has a web site......CC2, ADOBE READER full version, ACROBAT 8 all full versions for FREE with serial numbers.
Posted by Jeff Wisdom (Member # 6193) on :
I really need to update but not really wanting to do the creative cloud monthly. I would prefer to buy an older version on Amazon or Ebay, but some of them seem kind of sketchy. If any of you have found older online versions let me know which seller has worked out, if not let me know that too! Thanks.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
It seems if you only want photoshop cc, it can be had for $10 a month. What were the upgrades in the past, about $200?
Two years on subscription would about equal that.
Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
Ive had it since day one of the program and I would never go back- BTW-They now let you pay for it annually which is awesome- I grabbed a "Black Friday" special this past fall and saved even more. I think it came to $15/mo for everything they offered!, only an annual payment instead of monthly.
It is very simple- I add the cost of subscription to my cost of doing business, and my clients end up paying for it. Still way cheaper than an outright purchase.
I was skeptical at first, but it has proven to be a great way to have the most current, up to date software for a fraction of what I paid several years ago when I bought the Adobe Master Collection- which that version is now pretty much obsolete for the doing the work I am doing.
Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
you don't lose your files you store on your own devices, maybe access to the ones, if you store them on the Adobe Cloud service- I had a couple of months I was late on the payment, but it was back up immediately once I paid.
that is why I love the annual payment option! It can install on both Macs and PCS or combos- 2 computers can run the software at one time.
I also found out my tax accountant's software is subscription based, it is a very common method in many types of software. And she makes sure I write off all my subscription fees as a cost of doing business!
Don't let the doom and gloom naysayers scare you away from it!
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
I am not disagreeing with everything you said Michael, but you do realize these companies come up with plans that benefit themselves. Any benefits for the customers is secondary.
Your bookkeeper analogy doesn't advance your defense. Most accountants I have known deeply resent this subscription and feel like it is more of racket one must live with.
That all said, I still think my previous comment on photoshop only subscription is still valid and one I guess I can live with.
One can't justify every purchase as a good write off for business. I know some bankrupt business people who went under justifying some questionable spending that way.
I see no "doom and gloom" here.
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
To each their own. I'm still not really sold on this type of practice. I guess I'm just not driven by constantly updating software or hardware devices, (obviously, here I am with a computer that's 8 years old.. LOL ) Often times the changes are really not that big of a deal anyways. ( kinda like this trend to continually update cell phones .... I don't get it. LOL But then, I don't have my face in my phone much.)
I want no part of that race, and don't like putting myself in a position where I am at the mercy of changing technology. (any more than I have to) I feel more comfortable being paid up on things, and I try to keep my "cost of doing business" down, leaving more money and focus towards a simpler more enjoyable life. I guess it's official .... I'm an old fart. LOL
My photoshop and Illy are CS, so I am wondering if they will run on my new computer. Ordering it today, but I have still not decided whether I should go with Windows 7 or 8.1. The system will come with a free upgrade to windows 10 when it comes out, and they would honor that even if I go with w7 now.
I have also been looking for alternatives to photoshop. I have always just used Illy to open up files from clients that I had troubles opening otherwise.
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
Jeez, I could have typed this. I can so relate. From what you have said here, I would go with 7, you can't lose.
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
David W. Thank the thieves, not the companies for doing this.
Nettie, The problem with operating older software is the more time goes on you'll come across more and more files that your old version of software won't open. I know you have many friends here that will open a file for you but that takes time. I'm not saying that you should go CC. That's entirely up to you, but if all you need is Photoshop, $10 a month is pretty reasonable. I use a lot of Adobe software so for me it was a bargain. Shoot, just getting the content aware filter in Photoshop has saved me a ton of time. I was never one to jump onto every upgrade, but every two to 3 years the number of new features made it worth it. Now I have the latest version of all their software at about the same price as upgrading just the three programs I use regularly. BTW, from what I've read, I'd stay with 7 also. Personally I hate the look of 8 and 10 will be similar but with some fixes for the most hated changes. Stay with 7 as long as you can. I just can't comprehend why Microsoft wants your computer screen to look like a phone. I hate those big square icons taking up 90% of the desktop.
Don, yes we do care what you say. I've found your advice very helpful at least 10% of the time. Okay, all kidding aside, your thoughts count and are very helpful. Please don't hold back.
[ April 25, 2015, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: Dave Sherby ]
Posted by Preston McCall (Member # 351) on :
I still have an old XP box with all the old corel programs which do not work on 8.1 Win. The new HP laptop is a complete joke anyway and with Win 8.1, it is virtually unused except for email and news. It was a sad joke for Msft to change it so much and unsettle all the learning curves of using XP. Will never trust Msft again, just like the Sears Appliance Service people who never bring the parts and always charge three time the going rate for repairs.
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
For now, I'm happy with XP & CS2 suite... Win 7 is nice, but most of our PCs are old WinXP ones that still work fine driving the plotter & router & scanner & printer etc. No need to change while the old technology they drive is happy...
The funny thing is I still go to Corel X3 for much work, as it boots up faster and does what I want, and ditto for Photoshop 7, which is on a few PCs that don't need the latest technology for a simple edit.
I just run W7 on one pc for design work.
Posted by Kathy Weeks (Member # 10828) on :
I was nervous about subscribing to the Adobe cloud versions of Illustrator, Photoshop, etc. However, like most people have said, it turns out cheaper than buying a cd of the entire suite, and the one and only problem I've had so far was when my internet connection went down for about an hour, I could not access the programs because I was logged out at the time. I like getting all the new updates with the subscription. And, Like Dave Sherby said, I was having issues with opening someone else's newer version files. My old computer was making "wheezing death noises", so when I bought my new computer, I downloaded the new programs from Adobe, they charge my credit card each month and e-mail me a receipt, and I haven't missed a beat with my customers and am still makin' money! I recommend upgrading to the cloud versions.
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Kathy just brought a question to mind. Do you have to be online now to use Adobe? It's all abit confusing to me.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Nettie,
You do not need to be online in order to be able to use Photoshop and the other programs in the suite.
You do have to be online to access the "Creative Cloud" or to transfer the license from one computer to another. For example, I have 5 different workstations in my shop. If I have been using Photoshop on my office computer and I go to another workstation to use Photoshop, the Creative Cloud will pop up and ask me to sign in. This will deactivate the license on my office computer in the process. If I go back to my office computer to use Photoshop, the Creative Cloud will pop up and ask me to sign in. If the internet does down, the programs will continue to function only on the computer that the license is currently active.
Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
No problem with someone with a differing opinion or view- I just wanted to represent someone who has actually used it from day one and has had nothing but a positive experience. It is obvious that a bunch of people don't like it, haven't tried it, scared of it, firmly taking a stand not to buy into it, whatever...
It may not be practical for everyone's situation, especially someone who only uses that type of software tools ever so often- but for me- a creative designer who uses the tools and works in Illustrator, Photoshop, Lightroom, Indesign, Flash, Muse, Premiere, etc, etc, etc… every day my livelihood is invested somewhat in software that works correctly and efficiently, and is up to date with the professional world that I work with. Everything in my workflow is evolving- I would not be able to go back to CS4 or some earlier version and still do the type of work I am asked to do today.
Software pirating was the main driving force behind the move to subscription- it was costing them a bunch of money, so they found a way to limit the pirating (somewhat anyway). It has benefited Adobe, but it has also allowed them the ability to keep things updated and offer more than they could in the past.
My only complaint was moving from Photoshop CS6 to Photoshop CC 2014- which involved a change in software engine, so some of my favorite older actions and tools were no longer supported- on the flip side, the new engine has allowed better tools and actions to be available at a fraction of older add-ons.
I mentioned my accountant using the subscription service- I should have been more specific- she is tax accountant that used to be an IRS auditor, so she relies on constant updated software that reflects the ever-changing tax code. Before subscription, she was forced to keep buying the updated software. I'm sure there are accountants that are just like sign people, and have differing opinions on subscription concept.
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
Michael's comment does bring one thought to mind, although I will still be able to access all my files should I decide to leave CC, because they are on my computer, they will likely not be able to be opened by an older version. I'm not sure if you can auto save files in a legacy version or not. So if you use a trial version I'd make sure you do "dumb down" your artwork before it expires.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Yes, you can auto-save in legacy with Photoshop CC 2014.
If you ever quit using Photoshop, you can still open PSD files in a free program called GIMP. However, all of the layers will be merged.
Posted by Jane Diaz (Member # 595) on :
There's always Corel... :-)
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
I have an older copy of Photoshop, but it's Lightroom I really use. I bought them outright a few years back and just pay to upgrade when desired. I'm also not a big fan of the monthly plans.
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Jane, I'm sticking with Corel. Since they won't let me upgrade now from x3, I will have to buy another copy. Ugh.
Donna, I am not getting hooked up with a subscription. I will make do with my older version of photoshop, and keep my fingers crossed it works with the new system. I've had the new computer now for over 2 weeks, still in the box. I need to break it open and set everything up.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
quote: I've had the new computer now for over 2 weeks, still in the box. I need to break it open and set everything up.
WOW....You have a lot of self-restraint Janette. When I get a new "toy" it is out of the box and set up immediately!!! Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Ditto what Dave wrote...I think my all-time personal record is 2 1/2 minutes. But, then, I've never bought a Windows PC. Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Yer quick Don!!! But then Windows PC's are better packaged, and take a little longer to unwrap, because they are so much more precious!!! Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
I'd be happy to debate PC vs Mac packaging. lol (Hey, haven't typed "lol" in ages!)
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
LOL Don..(yeah I still type LOL)
Debating the packaging of Win PC's vs. Mac's for shipping and delivery would be better left to a discussion of UPS/FedEx/USPS and other delivery services.
They all suck sometimes and then they sometimes amaze with their service.
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
I have 3 work stations that are used by 3 different designers. Is there a deal for that situation?
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
They have an option but not sure what it is. I know the base subscription allows installation on 2 computers.
Posted by Kevin Gaffney (Member # 4240) on :
You should go chat with Adobe Neil online. I was a bit confused did I need the individual or small business package. After discussing with them, they advised the individual one costing 27 euros a month plus taxes. Can't see how anyone would find that expensive
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kevin Gaffney: You should go chat with Adobe Neil online. I was a bit confused did I need the individual or small business package. After discussing with them, they advised the individual one costing 27 euros a month plus taxes. Can't see how anyone would find that expensive
30 bucks here, 30 bucks there, pretty soon you are talking real money. Already have boxed versions and other software doing the job well.
Posted by Kevin Gaffney (Member # 4240) on :
Maybe David but that software runs everything I have so I consider it ok value.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
For anyone interested, Adobe just did a rather large update a couple days ago. They've added some pretty cool stuff.
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Okay, all kidding aside, your thoughts count and are very helpful. Please don't hold back.![[Wink]](wink.gif)