Some of you may know, we design here. The hand work I have designed has always been too far to travel to to make it profitable, but this restaurant is pretty close to us. We have been getting ready to start manufacturing and installing. We have a chance to do some hand lettering. I have experience in this, but the last time I worked on any paying hand lettering project was some 15 years ago. So my numbers are a little rusty.
We are bidding on 3 similar graphics shown below on brick and plaster, all interior. A total of 192 Sq. Ft. @ $12.50 a square foot. ($2400.00)
My breakdown is: Materials: $100.00 2 of us, 3.5 Days from buying all the materials, pouncing to painting and giving it the final distressed finish.
Am I in the ballpark? How much would you be?
(By the way, there is also an illuminated sign, exterior dimensional sign, window graphics, and custom ADA signs to match the interior decor.)
--- the name has been changed to protect the innocent ---
Thanks!
Posted by Ricardo Davila (Member # 3854) on :
Only one question, Rick:
How did you arrive at the figure of $12.50 per square foot?......Sorry, but I don't understand....Would you care to tell us?
Thank you.
RD
[ July 15, 2014, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Ricardo Davila ]
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
Hi Richard,
I estimated the travel, our hourly rate and estimated time we could get it done, then gave ourselves a little cushion, added materials. then divided that cost into the square foot price.
Problem is, I'm not as agile as I used to be, this is post stroke so I don't know how long I could keep it up... my arm of course...
Posted by Jean Shimp (Member # 198) on :
It's hard to say without seeing the complexity of the image you are painting on the wall, how high up are you working, or the condition of the wall surface. But your price sounds too low to me.
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
Oooops,, I forgot to post the image. All three are similar to this. Thanks!
Posted by Dale Feicke (Member # 767) on :
Rick, That looks like a type of brick veneer on that back wall. Does it have seams like mortar joints, or is it flat? That would surely make a difference in the work involved/ pricing.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
RICK...the $12.50 seems a little low....in this day, with gas at 3.50 a gal, milk bout the same, a good bottle of whiskey that used to be $15 is now $35))))) better way to price this since there is travel involved.......most of the wall painting i have done,(85-2005)was priced at a minimum of $10 sq ft. the reason i use that $10......was for easy mental calculations. take the 192 sq ft X 10 =$1920.00, now to get a $20 a sq ft, just double it...$3840.00. to get $15 sq ft(this is were i would be for the work + travel & material)take the 1920.00, HALF IT, $960.00 ADD IT to the $1920.00, = $2880.00. material, travel ADDED.....you got 2 people, say 4 days....iam figuring $3200, divided by 2...=$1600,divide that by 4 days...$400 a day....or 8 hours $50 an hour..... at $2400......divide by 2 = $1200, divide by 4 days $300 a day....or 8 hours $37.50 an hour.
[ July 15, 2014, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Ricardo Davila (Member # 3854) on :
Rick,
After looking at your photo of the art work and knowing that they want you to paint three of them, this is how I would price this project:
First, they will not get a discount from me just because of the fact that they want three (3) identical walls. The amount of work is going to be the same for each wall, so, there is no reason for a discount.....Stand your ground.....Your work is worth it and maybe much more. Besides, ( I know this from experience ), when you walk in their pub and order a drink, they will not give you any discount, at all......You gotta pay what says on the menu ( they will probably say to you: "it's the law" ).....and, on top of that, you gotta tip that pretty girl who served you the drink......So, my advice to you is SHOW NO MERCY !
HERE IS MY BREAK DOWN FOR YOUR PROJECT:
PATTERN ___hrs ( drawing and pouncing the pattern for the wall )@ $_____/ shop hour = $ _______
PAINT/THINNERS, ETC. ___gals. @ $______/ gallon = $ ______
TRAVEL ( from the shop to job site and back to the shop ) ___hrs @ $______/shop hr - $ ________
GAS ( round trip )$________
MILAGE @ $_____/ mile = $ ______
MEALS $ ______
HOTEL @ $_____ night = $ ______
JOB EXECUTION ( If a helper is included, charge the customer the number of hours worked by the helper, at the rate of your shop hours.....you'll deal with the helper later. )
___HRS. to transfer pattern to the wall @ $_____shop hour = $ ______
___HRS. to paint graphic and/or sign on brick wall @ $______shop hour = $ _____
NOTE: If I have to paint on a rough wall, brick wall or corrugated wall ( like corrugated metal ), I always add 50% more, as opposed to what I would charge for painting on a flat smooth surface.
Rick, now, fill in the blanks, take two aspirins and call me tomorrow.
Good luck brother !
RD
P.S YOU WROTE:
"By the way, there is also an illuminated sign, exterior dimensional sign, window graphics, and custom ADA signs to match the interior decor."
My suggestion to you, Rick, is that you price these other projects separately....Just like you are pricing the wall project.
They are four different types of signs that require different pricing......With the exception of the window graphics, most of the other work can be done at the shop....Except, of course, the installation charges that would have to be added to each project.
So, you should price them differently....Using the above format and adding installation charges, etc.
This is a completely different animal, Rick.
By the way, this reminds me of a lesson that an old Jewish sign painter taught me, back in 1970, while I lived in Boston.
Here it is:
A customer walks in a sign shop and asks the sign painter: "How much would you charge for lettering this van?....I have 9 more vans that I want to letter, too.....Now, if you give me a good price for this one, I will bring you the other 9 vans."
The sign painter says: "Here is what I will do for you, sir.....I will charge you the regular price on this van and when you bring me the other 9 vans, I will, gladly, give you a discount....How does that sound to you, sir?"
The sign painter lettered the van and is still waiting for the other 9 vans.
P.S. ---- Beer not included !
[ July 15, 2014, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: Ricardo Davila ]
Posted by Alicia B. Jennings (Member # 1272) on :
Let's see, Patten drawn on plotter and hand perforate 1 Hour Paint, supplies $30.00 Get pattern on wall, pounce and hit it with a stabillo 1 Hour Paint, fast paint 3 hours I'd charge $400.00 for the wall. I don't know what the other jobs you have envolve. Bit that's what I'd first hit them with the wall price.
Posted by Mikes Mischeif (Member # 1744) on :
I look at this as a piece of art, not time & materials. If you sell a $7.00 beer that costs them $.05, what do you think your product is worth?
Posted by Alicia B. Jennings (Member # 1272) on :
See I don't really see it as art. To me, it's a fast buck. If this place was to ever go under, that wall would be painted over in the time it takes you to say 1 year lease. Now it might be considered art if the wall was painted by a artist who has been given the approval of a reputable art critique. But as we all know, most art critiques are influenced by the latest trends or personalities. As least that's the way I see it.
Posted by Ricardo Davila (Member # 3854) on :
Rick,
Today is your lucky day, brother !......In order to add more confusion, to you, in the pricing of your project, I am providing you, here,with five, very interesting and more confusing methods, used by other people who paint MURALS and GRAPHICS..........Which, I think, you should take into consideration, before you price your wall project.....just for the heck of it.
Notice that there are NO RULES !.......You, yourself, have to determine what you wish to earn on the project, based on your knowledge, areas of expertise and years of experience, etc.....and that is all you need.
By the way, if you leave it up to me, I'd go for the highest amount I can think of without cracking a smile.....I'll know when I have reached that amount, when I start smiling.
P.S. --- One last word, Rick......Remember, this is going to be HAND PAINTED by you.....Which means that you must take off your vinyl hat, before pricing these walls.
[ July 18, 2014, 04:38 AM: Message edited by: Ricardo Davila ]
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
Are these 3 walls at the same location? It looks like the red is going to have to be laid down first and allowed to dry. Same location, not a big deal. Driving across town to another location...big deal. One location, I could see pulling this off myself in two days, I would try getting $3,600......the price war days on jobs like this have been over for twenty years or more.
Posted by Alicia B. Jennings (Member # 1272) on :
One thing I have been told my many of my customers is that I am very easy to work with. Time and materials, the rest is fluff. Get in , get out and off to the bank. Most of the time I dont' even sign my work. The only thing I want to sign is the back of the check. A couple of weeks ago a customer wanted me to paint a mural on a 30 ft. long container that he has on his property. I told him "Why, painting a mural on that will not make you more money!" His eyes got really big, I was right.
Posted by Alicia B. Jennings (Member # 1272) on :
Ya know, right now my gardener is doing a bit of work on my sprinkler system. Replacing a few heads, repositioning a few things. If he was to go into this long drawn conversation out about replacing the whole system, yada, yada yada, he'd be out of here. "Fluff"
