That's interesting Joe. I am dubious about the subscription thing. I am more familiar with illustrator and photoshop than with the corel programs. I did not realize that the Adobe folks would let folks go ala carte on specific programs. I really only need Illy and photoshop. at $40 a month that $480 a year. For me that would be less than keeping up with the upgrades. Before I became proficient in Illy Cs3 I was a Corel draw dabbler. I have had folks in the Large format printing biz turn up there noses at Coreldraw. What are others opinions about corels color capibilities?
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
i have benn using PHOTOPAINT since i got into computers........NEVER have i needed PHOTOSHOP. i have had older versions, and it just has a whole different feel the PHOTOPAINT.
Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
I guess i'm in the minority- I've been using the Creative Cloud subscription for over a year and have been very happy with the service, upgrades, ease of use and most importantly- the latest cutting edge software... all for $19.99/month ($240/year)... HOW DARE THEM
Posted by Dale Manor (Member # 4858) on :
Sounds like a good deal, except I use 6 computers with CS on them. Seems to add up, and doesn't make sense for the freelance artist at all.
Not sure what to do in the future....since I use Mac computers, I have to add a lot to my machine just to run Corel....currently don't need Windows on my Home computer, and I am in no hurry to use Windows 8!
And yet, our printer uses Illy plug-ins. Yay
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Michael, that deal is no more. You must've got in early. $30/mo for first year, then goes up to $50/mo for the second year. That's w/CS3 or newer. Otherwise, $50/mo. $20 only pays for a single app, and only if you have CS3 or newer now.
Dale is right. Screws the freelancer.
I marked my calendar for the last day I can qualify for the discount price. I'm sticking w/CS3 up to then for sure.
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Bob, $20/mo per single apps is only for the first year. Goes up after that.
Posted by Bob Sauls (Member # 11321) on :
thanks, Don. I am sorry to hear this. I wonder if the market will bear this or if the customer really is captive and has no choice as a practical matter.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
quote: I wonder if the market will bear this or if the customer really is captive and has no choice as a practical matter.
All the other graphics software vendors are ramping up to meet the needs of the users. They seem to know that adobe has stepped into a mine field.
Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
if you watch, those $19.99 offers come around several times (or at least they have in the 14 or so months that I have been a subscriber) I was locked in at that price and still pay that- although I'm past my original 12 month agreement
I could use my CS3.3 Master collection on 3 computers at a time (legally) the new subscription allows for only 2
Also- if you are a teacher or student (k-12-college-whatever) you can get the $19.99/mo... (my high school son got a student subscription for his laptop)
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
So, can the cloud be hacked?
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
well..........lets look at this way. whats the differance between hacking your computer...or a place that stores your information....??? OF COURSE...it can and will be hacked.....problem is when it happens .you will have no idea its been done. to me, in my thinking the cloud is not different then PHOTOBUCKET/FLICKR. you put your stuff out there, anyone can access it and USE IT AS THERES.... i dont think i wnat my banking, artwork, in that space.....
[ June 18, 2013, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Michael, the educational version is/always has been "no commercial use". It works, but no better than pirated if used to make a buck. AND costs much more than pirated, even w/the discount.
The more that I think about this cloud thing, the more I realize the only problem I have with it is the price. I have all legal Adobe products, but have never been able to afford regular upgrades. Usually skip 2 or 3 versions because I can't justify paying so much just for bells and whistles I don't need and probably won't use. I'm resenting being "forced" to pay to be current.
But, when it comes down to it, I'd rather pay through the nose than switch to Corel.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
quote:Originally posted by Michael Clanton: if you watch, those $19.99 offers come around several times (or at least they have in the 14 or so months that I have been a subscriber) I was locked in at that price and still pay that- although I'm past my original 12 month agreement
I could use my CS3.3 Master collection on 3 computers at a time (legally) the new subscription allows for only 2
Also- if you are a teacher or student (k-12-college-whatever) you can get the $19.99/mo... (my high school son got a student subscription for his laptop)
Still, the lower price is for the first year, after that it goes up. Or did I miss something?
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
i have had ACADEMIC versions of corel........and they WORK........ EXACTLY THE SAME AS FULL VERSIONS. most of the lesser then full versions of any programs like NFR(not for resale), OEM installs,upgrades, the biggest difference is....only the FULL VERSION COMES WITH BOOKS. wife has a M/S OFFICE, home/academic vesion. has word, excel, powerpoint, NO BOOKS...for under $100, instead of the $400 for the full version.
Posted by Brent Logan (Member # 6587) on :
Answer to Bob Sauls question: I prefer to use CorelDraw because I'm used to it and I like it for designing. Been using it since V1.3 However, I don't like it for printing.... too many problems over the years. I export my CDR drawings as PSD or PDF and use those files for the printer. Sometimes I'll open the CDR to PSD file in Photoshop and tweak it a little. This works for me and my prints look good. Never had a problem with Adobe files printing and the color is pretty close to what I see on the monitor.
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
OP, the terms of academic versions that you had to agree to in order to load the programs onto your computer, included that it would not be used for commercial purposes. Did you figure a way to load them without agreeing to their legal terms?
Posted by Bob Sauls (Member # 11321) on :
Brent when I used Corel9 it was mainly because of the hoops I was having to jump thru with the little known sign program called Alphasign that I was using back then. I need corel to import clients files, I could manipulate the files in corel and export them in a fashion that my sign program could open. Which raises this question can your old version of cdw open current adobe files or do you have to ask for Illustrator/eps files saved back as legacies?
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
quote:Originally posted by Don Coplen: OP, the terms of academic versions that you had to agree to in order to load the programs onto your computer, included that it would not be used for commercial purposes. Did you figure a way to load them without agreeing to their legal terms?
You know the answer to that.
Posted by Brent Logan (Member # 6587) on :
Bob, seems like Corel's import filter is always one version behind Adobe Illustrator. Yes, I have to ask them to save Illustrator files down to an earlier version. If you ask your customer to save the Illy files as vector PDF's those usually import fine from any version of Illy and the files are smaller.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
OP..You are mistaken when you say that legitimate upgrade versions of Corel products don't come with hard copy "books"...All of my upgrade versions came with them, mostly purchased direct from Corel.
I don't know if it is still the case, but it used to be that in order to actually install an upgrade version of Corel Graphics Suite, you had to insert a previous version's CD (and, I think, type in the previous registration code) to verify that you did, indeed, own a previous version and qualified for the upgrade version.
As far as Adobe switching to their way of marketing is concerned...I believe they will feel a huge kickback in their ass. Most folks like to buy software outright, not just rent it month by month forever and be at the whim of a supplier who can up the "rent" any time they wish.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
I dunno Dave, years ago hardly anyone believed you would pay for tv.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
quote:I dunno Dave, years ago hardly anyone believed you would pay for tv.
Good point David....
And, yes, I do pay for satellite TV. And satellite radio and cell and land line telephone.
And internet service.
Sheesh....the list goes on and on
And the monthly prices for service seem to go up every once in a while too, and without warning nor my approval.
At least, my Corel Graqhics Suite X3 was paid for and hasn't cost me an additional penny in 5 years!!! But then I don't need to import nor open newer files from anyone else these days.
If I did need the newer graphics program, I would prefer to buy it outright though, not rent it.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
you people need to read ACADEMIC VERSION RULES. yes it say in there its not for commercial usage.BUT NOWHERE does it stop you. its like that thing when you downlad a program and it asks AGREE or DISAGREE, how many of you oh so high and mighty have read it? most of the corels i have had where NFR(not for resale)can be purchased by people working in software sale or computer repair......these are not UPGRADEABLE. i dont buy corel when every version comes out. i bought 4, 7, 10 and X3. i just bought an upgrade to program i have called ARTS & LETTERS EXPRESS. if you owned a version 7 or 7.5, you can update to version 8.0 for $19.95. other wise it is a $80 program. http://www.arts-letters.com/ this program can cut to a plotter just like corel. the clipart in it is really good. it has a lot of layering like illy but easier to work with.
[ June 18, 2013, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
My point was not to try and get around anything- I was only giving information based on what I have been using for almost 16 months- so far, my monthly costs have been exactly the same for those 16 months- but they could increase at any time.
My subscription is the full version of Creative Cloud... my son's subscription (that he got at a discount rate for being a high school student) is the exact same full version of Creative Cloud- there is no "educational or academic version" limitations on his subscription anywhere. His software is exactly like the ones on my machines.
As far as Corel- I used X3 for a long, long, long time- then upgraded X6- I really like everything about it (actually prefer to build vector graphics from scratch with DRAW!- much easier to work with than Illustrator) it seems to be able to open or import just about all the newest files much easier than previous versions.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Thanks Michael !!! Just what I need/don't really need!!! A reomendation for Corel X6....
Well, hell, why not?
It will be fun to play with and check out new features.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
quote: EXACTLY THE SAME AS FULL VERSIONS.
well almost.. the visual basic modules are not included.. For many this does not matter .But for some who use corel for more than just drawing a line to run a plotter the visual basic is very necessary.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
[ June 19, 2013, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: David Wright ]
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
To me, all still boils the fact that it doesn't matter what it cost but rather how much money you make.
Because I use Adobe and Corel a lot, the subscription service is actually more cost effective for me than buying out-right.
However other software such as pricing programs, being able to buy out-right is better for me as they don't make money but rather help me keep from losing money.
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
OP, that's some amazing argument ya got there.
Wow.
[ June 19, 2013, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Don Coplen ]
Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
Ditto to what Glenn said... I was able to put my subscription costs into my cost of doing business- at the end of the year, my tax person made sure all of these expenses were placed in the appropriate places for my taxes...
Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
... and I made much more profit from these tools than they actually cost me to use them.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
don, which part dont you understand??? i SAID if you would read..and comprehend.......MOST OF MY COREL VERSIONS WERE NFR VERSIONS...
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Already trouble with pirating?
From Cnet: Adobe's Creative Cloud platform, which moves its Creative Suite applications from "perpetual license" to subscription-based payment plans, was designed to reduce piracy. Unfortunately for Adobe, that effort doesn't appear to have succeeded.
According to tech site PetaPixel, a torrent link was uploaded to The Pirate Bay on Wednesday, allowing users to illegally download Adobe's Creative Suite applications included in Creative Cloud for free. Those who have downloaded the software from The Pirate Bay say that it appears to work just fine.
Adobe's Creative Cloud platform was deployed earlier this week. The company had hoped that the subscription-based plan behind it would curb the massive piracy of some of its most popular applications, including Photoshop. It appears, though, that that effort isn't going so well.
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
Amazing OP, you're perfectly willing to use NFR & academic versions of software, but put YOUR art in the cloud for someone to steal... no way? Wow.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
DUH.........davey....NFR....you have a problem with using it to make money? where do you see this as a problem??? if i buy(which i did)NFR softwear, KNOWING it is not an upgradeable version, then what is the problem? i SAID I DONT UPGRADE to each and every version. so payin the full price for a program SERVES ME NO USE. i had corel 4(full version i bought) i bought 5, and sold it because it would not cut, and 6 didnt either, so i didnt even think about buying it. i bought an NFR version 7. knowing i wouldnt upgrade for a while, as 7 did all i needed it to do. i bought 10, and then X3.....so whats your problem??? i spend my money best way i see fit, and if you need to have every upgrade....good on ya.
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Here's what Corel has to say about OP's NFR software.
"Selling Not For Resale (NFR) software
This type of product cannot be sold for any reason. It is only distributed under limited conditions – usually for software evaluation purposes – and typically only by the software publisher. If an NFR product is being offered for sale, it is violating the product’s license terms and conditions. Distribution by the seller constitutes patent, trademark and copyright infringement. There can be legal repercussions for both the buyer and the seller."
On a completely related note, do you realize that if not for shoplifters, the rest of us who don't steal wouldn't have to pay so much for groceries?
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Call me stupid...But...How does one legally buy "not for resale" software?
Doesn't "not for resale" mean that it is not for resale????
I always thought that term applied to software that came pre-loaded on a new computer or discs that were supplied with a new computer.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
don cant get the concept...YOU BUY NFR SOFTWARE))))) and its for people who sell software and work on computers......NOT INTENDED FOR RESALE!!!!!!! and like i said..IT IS NOT UPGRADEABLE!!!!! that is the downside. and don..........i didnt steal anything.....really hate when people who make their judgments....on things they know nothing about. DAVE. thats OEM software, which you can buy at certain sites. no books, no disc.....
[ June 21, 2013, 01:27 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
From ebay "The reason software manufacturers use NFR software is simply to get their resellers and solution providers to give it a try. Many popular software vendors including Microsoft, Symantec, and more have programs to make NFR software available for precisely this purpose."
Here's what Adobe has to say: Here are some acceptable and NOT acceptable use cases:
Acceptable:
Example 1: Building a demonstration using mocked up customer data. Example 2: Training staff and consultants in best practices for deploying digital marketing solutions. Example 3: Using the NFR license to develop and proof a repeatable Digital Marketing Solution - not necessarily for one specific customer.
NOT acceptable:
Example 1: Developing a Web Experience Management solution for a customer using an NFR licensed copy of Adobe CQ. Not acceptable, because the customer must puchase development licenses to support their project in this example. Example 2: Using the NFR license to instrument or otherwise interact with a customer's live, production web site.
Dell's take on NFR: Dell Not for Resale Software License Program Terms and Conditions (U.S. and Canada) 1. Program Overview The Dell Not for Resale Software License Program (“Program”) is intended to support Partners (defined below) in their business development efforts by providing access to certain software( “NFR Software”) for customer demonstrations or internal testing or training. 2. Eligibility U.S. and Canadian channel partners who meet all of the following requirements (“Partners”) may participate in the Program.
VMware NFR policy NFR software is available to partners in good standing for product demonstration and training purposes only. One year of subscription services is included with NFR software as long as the partner remains in good standing within the parameters of the VMware Partner Program. Under no circumstances may these NFR software copies be copied, resold, hosted or distributed to any third party or used for partner information processing or computing needs. These partners of the VMware Partner Network are eligible for NFR licenses: Corporate Resellers Distributors OEMs Note: OEMs can obtain NFRs by directly contacting their VMware Account Manager. Global System Integrators and Outsourcers Service Providers Solution Providers Technology Alliance Partners (TAP)
Sorry OP but there is no definition of NFR software that allows a BUSINESS or INDIVIDUAL to legally buy it in the first place let alone use it for profit. As stated above, it is used to demo software by people associated with the legal sale of said software or training of software.
OEM software is software that is purchased by a computer manufacturer where the manufacturer loads the software on the computer in the factory, like pre-loading Windows on computers they build.
[ June 21, 2013, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Dave Sherby ]
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
HEY ....do i really give 2 schits??? it was back in the early 90's....apparently...they(corel) didnt give 2 schits either)))))))) and the version of X3 i have now..i BOUGHT from a web site...for under $100..........no discs no books.......makes me MONEY.....just like yours does........... http://www.evaluesoftware.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1549
[ June 21, 2013, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
It's easy to find a thief ready to sell you something cheap OP, doesn't make it right or legal.
By the way, that link you put up is useless. I checked them out for you. That version is no longer available. X6 is but only academic version. OEM is for legitimate manufacturers.
Posted by Joseph Diaz (Member # 5913) on :
You know... trying to figure out ways to take advantage of a savings program not meant for you, OR at worst using pirated software, is kind of why the cloud is such an attractive business model to these companies. It's sad though because in the end the people that are good long time paying customers are forced into a program they don't want and aren't comfortable with, and the people that these new changes are supposed to stop, will just find another loophole and continue stealing or cheating.
Posted by Rick Janzen (Member # 7227) on :
It's nice to see the software police are alive and well, and masquerading as sign makers. You must not have enough work to keep you busy. As long as someone is going to charge for something, someone will figure a way to steal it. The "Cloud" is no exception. And lets be honest, there's also an element of corporate greed associated to it.
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
You're right Rick... same corporate greed that makes stores install security cameras to stop shoplifting. Greedy bas...ds.
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Joe, illegally installing software onto a computer is not a difficult concept to comprehend. I get that part. The part I don't get is where you think it's right to do so. Blame my mother for that.
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dave Sherby: You're right Rick... same corporate greed that makes stores install security cameras to stop shoplifting. Greedy bas...ds.
Posted by Rick Janzen (Member # 7227) on :
Dave and Don, you guys really need to get out more.
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
You didn't finish your sentence.
You guys really need to get out more...
...and if you have opinions, keep them to yourselves.
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
We already are all banned from talking politics and religion on this site. Next going to be graphics software issues?
Posted by Rick Janzen (Member # 7227) on :
Thanks for the correction Don, I also put my opinion out, you just didn't like it. Just for the record, I've purchase all of my software. I do find it frustrating with all the upgrades, both software and operating systems, that don't play well together. Not to mention the tech support that demands money upfront only to point the finger at everyone else. The "Cloud" is just a way to create a monthly cash flow, but then again, they're counting on hard working folks such as yourself to drive their quarterly profits up. To each their own.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
The new definition of Corporate Greed: Developing and implementing a sustainable business model that helps to protect and ensure the jobs of the people you hire to create a product for you so you can sell it at a profit to people who use it to make a profit.
Guess I need to get out more.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Rick, the problem is that the old business models aren't sustainable. Subscriptions are a way to insure the long term viability of a company and it's product. I wouldn't call that Corporate Greed.
Again, it comes to not how much it cost but rather how much you money you make with it.
Posted by Rick Janzen (Member # 7227) on :
I'm sure that's just what the share holders are thinking when they close down a plant, or move their operations overseas to keep profitable.
Posted by Rick Janzen (Member # 7227) on :
Glenn, I do try to understand what your saying, please don't get me wrong. There's also the other side of the coin that a corporation puts a lot of energy into making money, bottled water and insurance comes to mind. Like everything there are good companies, and ones that want it all. I hear a lot about the plus and minus of the Cloud, it's just like renting or owning your own home. Some will tell you all the benefits to renting, others,why you should own. I guess it all comes down to personal choice.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Of course, no one complains about Big Beer. Posted by Joseph Diaz (Member # 5913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glenn Taylor: Of course, no one complains about Big Beer.
All kidding aside, actually they do. Try opening your own brewing company and see what you are up against. If you ever want to see a great documentary, check out: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1326194/ Posted by Rick Janzen (Member # 7227) on :
There's also another interesting documentary out there called "The Corporation" Here's a link to the trailer: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0379225/ Like most documentaries, it's from the perspective of the film maker. But is is interesting.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Well, until I see an "Occupy Coors"..... Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
I'm kinda surprised that the Corel rep hasn't put in his two cents here. Maybe offer Joe free NFR Corel for life or something?
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
DON...none of the corles i had..WERE ILLEGAL. bought and paid for with a receipt. you are making statements that are false, just to hear yourself. like i said, IT WAS THE 90'S, seems corel didnt give 2 schits....what i did with the program after I PAID FOR IT)))))))))))))) and rick, thank you you seem to be the only other sensible person responding.
[ June 22, 2013, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Now I'm just confused. So they were not "not for resale"?
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Posted by Michael Gene Adkins (Member # 882) on :
for what I do, I can work all the way back to Corel 9 and still be good
X6 is OK, has some good stuff, etc., but nothing I can't do in Corel 9
But that's just me. I don't need a lot of options for what I do.
but what happens when Windows or whatever no longer supports the software?
Will we be required to start subscribing to software? hundreds of dollars a year to do the same thing I've done for 20 years with only minimal expenditures?
Some users, casual or professional, won't be able to justify the cost. I won't.
That's probably why so many casual users are now downloading free programs (or very inexpensive ones) to do vector work, paint effects, digital painting, etc. Adobe and Corel might already be losing large portions of their market.
sheeeshh
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
I would think what Corel and others do in the future will depend on what success (or failure) Adobe experiences.
I really don't think Adobe's customers have been casual users. It's always been expensive stuff, at least compared to Corel.
Posted by Michael Gene Adkins (Member # 882) on :
remember when dongles prevented piracy?
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
like i said in an earlier post....I DONT UPGRADE TO EVERY NEW VERSION OF COREL. there is no need or reason to do this. the additions to any programs usually are not that big a deal. i have been a corel user since 92, version 3.0. i bought 4.0, when i got my 1st computer. i bought 5, and found out quickly it would not work to the plotter cause corel had leased the plotter communication code to another company & version 6 was also missing the code. i sold 5.0 to someone else and went back to using 4 till 7 came out. this was the biggest improvement in corel, as it increased the work space to 150 feet x 150 feet, and they put the plotter code back into it. version 8 was a combination of COREL & XARA. 9 had the best of corel for fonts. i bought 10. and then bought X3. maybe i will get X6.....but will wait to see whats new with the next version.
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Michael, is there a good reason that they aren't all using dongles?
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
joe, from what I've read, you can't go from x3 to x6. x3 is what I have along with xp and an ancient Roland plotter. I see the same crap I went through with win 3.1 looming in the future. I am soooooooooooooo glad I'm not locked into the technology.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
quote:you people need to read ACADEMIC VERSION RULES. yes it say in there its not for commercial usage.BUT NOWHERE does it stop you.
Character: Doing what's right when no one is looking. :-) )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
quote: OEM is for legitimate manufacturers.
And is what any one of us is acting like when we build our own machines. We build our own original equipment. We build our own machines such as screen print presses, cnc machines or some fancy tool we sue in our shops.
Thus, anyone who builds their own computer is an OEM manufacturer and can purchase OEM software all they want.
Yes I know someone will chime in with the old "it has to be built for resale" line. But that is a nonsense gray area.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
oh yes,,
Adobe is taking a huge hit on this scheme.
The impact of this metamorphosis into SaaS provider was apparent in Adobe's Q2 sales, which slumped ten per cent to $1.01bn as net profit dived 66.8 per cent on a year ago to $76.5m.
And , just for the record. The CCloud scheme is already hacked..
[ June 25, 2013, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: Curtis hammond ]
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
george, you can run X6 ON XP. i had the trial version, and had it cutting to my roland. i just didnt see anything in X6, that made my job any simpler/faster/easier then what X3 DOES))) and like curt said, IF YOUR BUILDING COMPUTERS, then you are an OEM. i only bought 2 ready made computers.and they were laptops))))) every desktop i have owned was assembly and setup by me. TODD........mr perfect, at least i dont go to movie theaters and want to kill people for talking......is that the right thing you do???
[ June 25, 2013, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Yes you do OP:
THIS IS THE KINDA STUFF...THAT MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL...and i want to kill those that do crap like this. (from Rusty Bradley's recent thread)
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
YOUTALKINTOME???? iam glad to make an impact on you))))
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