So now you can get a banner printed at WalMart. Although, this is a sector of the market of which I don't want to be involved in. A 2'x8' is about $30.bucks. I used to send people to Kinko's, now I can send them to Walmart.
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
This makes me sick.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
since the printers have taken over i do maybe 3-4 banners a year!!!!!
Posted by Rusty Bradley (Member # 6938) on :
Of the 10 richest people in America I think 3 were the Walton kids...yet Walmart purposefully works many of their people in such a way as to get out of paying for their healthcare...I'm shopping there less and less and at the same time usually paying a little more to local merchants who are just trying to make an honest living...every time I do this I feel good about myself.
[ February 08, 2013, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: Rusty Bradley ]
Posted by Gerald Barlow (Member # 3477) on :
I'm sure I'm outside of the perimiters here, but here goes...i had a long talk with a business person this week. Do you know the term "Flooring"? I didn't. It seems that Walmart and Costco do not pay inventory tax because they have no inventory. They take possession of the things sold "at the register" as they sell. All that stuff belongs to the individual manufacturers until it is sold. No wonder the small companies go out of business. No wonder its all made over seas. Talk about a new world.
Posted by Dale Feicke (Member # 767) on :
It's truly amazing, that in today's world, so many companies (and individuals) are expanding their businesses and enlarging their pocketbooks, by scamming the rest of us, in some way or other.
Change is not always for the better.
Posted by Bob Sauls (Member # 11321) on :
[ February 09, 2013, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: Bob Sauls ]
Posted by Bob Sauls (Member # 11321) on :
Gerald, Home Depo does things the same way. I have a friend in the timber biz. Since home depot is the largest seller of lumber it has severely changed the market and how things are done.
Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :
You mean people still leave the office or home to actually drive out to Wally or Office Max to order a banner? Not smart these days! Point and click the banner arrives the next day for LESS than Wally!
Wally is not the problem.
Its me, and all of us. We are all guilty in my opinion.
Would you rather pay $90.00 for business cards at the local printer in your town to support his business, or pay $10.00 to Vista Print for even better and more?
Point and Click....to easy and too cheap. Its a different world now; figure out what it needs and provide it...but make sure your customers can point and click!
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
Yes Dave you are right, we complain and then and order stuff online, you talk about calling the kettle Black... there's even some sign supply companies doing the same thing, they stock you up, and you only pay when you use it.
Posted by Bruce Evans (Member # 44) on :
Flooring is used in the auto industry as well.
Posted by Rusty Bradley (Member # 6938) on :
As far as the Super stores go...I would like to boycott the whole lot of them...but if you are going to buy from them I would recommend Costco...the owner is a great guy...I saw a tv special on Costco and was impressed with the owner...he treats his employees right...top dollar for this kind of work with full benefits...when those enormous profits are shared more equitably with the employees you have a happy work force...I don't care for Walmart...they are guilty of taking advantage of their people...hoarding the profits and short changing their people.
[ February 10, 2013, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: Rusty Bradley ]
Posted by Craig Sjoquist (Member # 4684) on :
As far as Walfart selling or any other chain that is not advertising related makes little sense to buy from other then cheap ..good for cheap information if ya do not want afford to be a real adventure yet..
Flooring or any other tax credit that anybody gets...HR25 would solve (the Fair Tax Plan)
Agrees with Rusty on Costco.. The Owner is a genius in business & his ideas work also challenges you.
Posted by Dale Manor (Member # 4858) on :
Personally, I go out of my way NOT to buy anything at Walmart...hopefully I will never have to set foot in another one of their stores again!
Check out the documentary...."The High Cost of Low Prices" gives you a good idea why most "American Downtown" areas are sitting vacant, or are heading that way.
Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :
Rusty, In your Wal*Mart ( actually WALMART*) observation you forgot to mention million dollar bribes to Mexican officials to get stores built thus beating out the other stores and the long wait permit process. Posted by Dennis Kiernan (Member # 12202) on :
I have never set foot in a Walmart and never will.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
You people take a stand on Walmart but I'm betting you are at Target, Kohls, and a lot of other national chains who's products come from the same place and pay their employees just as bad.
I understand the sentiments and hate this system but we have to be honest and not make Walmart the only whipping boy for our disgust.
All the union people in my area talk the same way and most working men I know visit Harbor Freight on a weekly basis.
Posted by Donald Miner (Member # 6472) on :
Very interesting topic. There is nothing made, that cannot be made a little worse, and sold a little cheaper, and those that shop by price alone, are this man's lawful prey. When low prices come in the door, quality goes out the window. Peace, Donj
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
John Ruskin was a wise soul Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
I LOVE WALL MART!!! i do most of our grocery shopping there. why? because the WINN DIXIE & PUBLIX, we have here are pricing same brand products at anywhere from $1-2 higher then walmart. RICE CHEX, A DOLLAR CHEAPER PER BOX AT WALL MART. GRAPEFRUIT AT PUBLIX, $1.29 EA, WALMART .59 EA. MORNING STAR VEGETARIAN PRODUCTS, PUBLIX, $4.50, WALMART $3.29 i can go on and on. as for how they treat their employees..........THE PEOPLE WHO WORK THERE accepted the job........its their choice...you dont like unions.......THIS is what you get.
[ February 11, 2013, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Curt Stenz (Member # 82) on :
If you have ever published a book and put it on Amazon, you will find that they not only do this same thing, but they make you (the book publisher) pay the freight to ship to them, charge you to inventory your unsold books, and they have the right to discount your retail price that they charge, leaving you with the smallest of profit.
Posted by Bill Wood (Member # 6543) on :
Can Walmart make big profits selling their merchandise at lower prices.What is the big secret here.It is hearsay that products placed on their sales floor and the manufacturer sujusts the retail price the item should sell for...and that product does not sell...the manufacturer signs an agreement to buy back that unsold product at their sujusted posted price.Does anyone know if this is Walmarts policy when they purchase their inventory?
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
The last time I checked, no one is forced to shop at Walmart or work there.
They have a business model that works for them. The same business model as a lot of other companies. What's funny is that a lot of other companies build their stores around Walmart even though they sell a lot of the same stuff. Hmmmm...I wonder why.
Meanwhile, the starting wages at their North Dakota stores is $17 an hour.... the wretches.
Posted by Dale Manor (Member # 4858) on :
Even though I don't shop at Wal Mart...I still have to help pay for their tax breaks and for health care coverage that they don't extend to their employees. But hey, the Walton kids are only worth about 25 billion each, so I can see how they need every dime!
[ February 12, 2013, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Glenn, most people know North Dakota is a special case right now. That said, Walmart is no worse than any major retailer as far as wages and benefits, save a few like Costco.
I don't like it and wish their was such a thing as a livable wage society used to strive for but this is the present state of our country and the world for that matter.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
David, I know. My point is that the labor prices are market driven. And that is how it should be.
Just because the Walmart heirs are billionaires should have no bearing on what they should pay their employees. It should be left to the Market. If a person wants higher pay and a higher standard of living, they should earn it and not worry about the other guy who has a dollar more than they do.
IMHO, a "living wage" is a fantasy borne out of envy and a sense of entitlement. It doesn't work. It never has.
Would someone tell me exactly how much a Living Wage should be? I'd like for someone to give an actual working number that would be fair to everyone and still let businesses remain competitive nationally and internationally.
[ February 12, 2013, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
Posted by Rusty Bradley (Member # 6938) on :
I've hired a 30 year old man to build my small shop/studio for me...he told me he got $15 an hour for his skilled labor...he lives 30 minutes away...I told him there was no way I was paying him $15 an hour without also allowing me to give him $5 a day for gas and take him out to lunch while he worked for me...he feels good...and I feel good about myself...the unintended consequences has been that he is busting his butt to please me...and today he shows up with rice, beans, kale, and sweet potatoes for all 4 of us...Donna throws in a chicken and we have a feast...they are all still at the kitchen table visiting as I type this...you can take from this story as you wish...but for me personally it is the only way to treat your fellow man.
I feel pretty sure that if I were a billionaire it would not be long before I would only be a millionaire...but a very happy one.
[ February 12, 2013, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: Rusty Bradley ]
Posted by Rusty Bradley (Member # 6938) on :
Glenn...checkout this link...Walmart's own site for salaries in each individual state...North Dakota will be in the white.
If these are the good guys (Walmart) that will be a tough position to defend.
[ February 12, 2013, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Rusty Bradley ]
Posted by Ricardo Davila (Member # 3854) on :
Rusty,
I am, really, so impressed.....I had no idea you could be such a nice person, to other people.....The way you are treating that individual is absolutely commendable. May God bless you for your generosity.
So, how come you are not that nice with me ?.....I can, also, cook rice and beans......or, was it something I said ?
You know we like you, in Oklahoma.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Rusty, I got my info from CNBC....
quote:The unemployment rate in Williston, North Dakota hovers around .07 percent. Wal-Mart is offering $17 an hour, and even the United States Postal Service is hiring.
As for your generosity for your employee, I applaud you. To me, such generosity means all the more when you do such things voluntarily because you want to rather than some government bureaucrat forcing you to do it upon penalty.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
A living wage is not something I believe should be enforced by government but something society or even a business should strive for.
Henry Ford did it when he instituted the $5 a day in the early days where he believed it was to his and everyone's benefit if those that built the cars could afford them.
As to what amount a living wage is, I would guess more than $7 an hour. $15 or $20 even better, but again, it is not something I advocate the government gets involved in even though they do pay good wages ( not sure they get a return on their investment).
The auto workers around me make good living wages but that is disappearing as the older $28 an hour employees are being replace by Tier two level who only make $16 or so. Pretty good by other standards but a significant drop from the good old days.
Posted by Rusty Bradley (Member # 6938) on :
Glenn...I read the CNBC article...I think you will want to retract your statement from your above post.
"Meanwhile, the starting wages at their North Dakota stores is $17 an hour."
As it turns out the $17 an hour applies to only one Walmart store in one little town...Williston...they are a boomtown and an economic anomaly...with a population of only 14,700 and an average annual income of $77,000...Walmart is probably forced to offer $17 an hour to get anyone there to work for them...I hardly believe it could be out of the goodness of their heart because that would be such a contradiction with their other employment practices in the rest of North Dakota and the country.
[ February 12, 2013, 10:19 PM: Message edited by: Rusty Bradley ]
Posted by Rusty Bradley (Member # 6938) on :
Joseph...thanks for sharing the article...everyone should read it...it's pretty short...but very germane to this discussion...here is one line from the article.
"American companies are now so obsessed with profit maximization that they are content with millions of their full-time employees being below the poverty line (Walmart, Starbucks, McDonalds)"
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Sigh......Rusty, you're missing point. Go back and look at what I said said to David.....
quote:My point is that the labor prices are market driven. And that is how it should be.
Do you understand now?
Like it or not, labor is a commodity. Meaning, it has a certain value based on need and commonality. There is a reason why gold is worth more an steel.
Does it take a special skill or knowledge to work at a Walmart? No. Therefore, it has a low value unless it is in short supply as demonstrated by Williston.
As for Joe's article by Henry Blodget, its stupid (no reflection on Joe).
Blodget consistently writes from left-wing perspective to play on the reader's emotions so as to promote what he believes to be Social Justice. In this article, he tries to take two bits of data (high profits and low wages as a percent of the economy) and make an emotional omlet. The truth is that one has nothing to do with the other.
Lets look at two claims that Blodget makes.
1) Walmart makes huge profits.
2) Walmart is happy to let full-time employees live below the poverty line.
Thus, his argument is that Walmart is greedy and if it was really a nice company that cared about people, it would share at least some of its profits with the employees and they wouldn't be in such dire straights.
Nonsense.
Lets look at the reality. Walmart's profit margins are between 3% and 3.5%.
Costco's (who appears to be everyone's hero) profit margin is roughly 1% below Walmart's.
This difference translates into roughly $2800 per employee.
Whoopee. The huddled masses would be rich and the economic disparity imagined by Blodget will magically disappear. (/sarc)
And you'd say, "Yeah, but that $2800 would be a big help to some families."
No. Not really. We're talking about a $1.45 an hour difference pretax. Take out that $2800 the taxes that both the employees and the company have to pay and the employee gets less than a dollar.
Wow. A life changing sum. Yep. That'll get those employees out from under the poverty line. Yessiree!
Walmart is in the retail business. The simple fact is that retail businesses have never paid anyone well. People with low skill gravitate toward it because it is easy work and doesn't require much education and knowledge. And as I said before, labor is a commodity. The more you have something of, the more common it is, the less it is worth. That is the cold, hard reality of it all.
Trying to make Walmart a villain and its employees victims doesn't help anyone, especially to any meaningful level.
If people want a truly better life for themselves, they have to increase their value by improving their education, their knowledge and their skill sets. Its their responsibility. Not yours. Not mine. Not the Government's. Its what I had to do. Its what you had to do.
[ February 12, 2013, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
Posted by Ricardo Davila (Member # 3854) on :
Glenn,
You are my new hero.....Very well explained.....I guess it all has to do with the curve of supply and demand or, maybe vice-versa....It is very possible that, at this old age of ours, we may have forgotten the basic principles of Economics 101.
A very wise person said:
In microeconomics, supply and demand is an economic model of price determination in a market.
It concludes that in a competitive market, the unit price for a particular good will vary until it settles at a point where the quantity demanded by consumers (at current price) will equal the quantity supplied by producers (at current price), resulting in an economic equilibrium for price and quantity.
The four basic laws of supply and demand are:
If demand increases and supply remains unchanged, a shortage occurs, leading to a higher equilibrium price.
If demand decreases and supply remains unchanged, a surplus occurs, leading to a lower equilibrium price.
If demand remains unchanged and supply increases, a surplus occurs, leading to a lower equilibrium price.
If demand remains unchanged and supply decreases, a shortage occurs, leading to a higher equilibrium price.
Just saying......I thought this could help.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Precisely.
The average sign shop employee in my area is paid about $9 an hour. My least paid employee is $14 an hour.
Why is it that I can afford to pay just a huge difference? Is it because I bow to the god of Social Justice?
Hardly.
The guy earning $14 an hour can do things the $9 an hour person can't.
[ February 13, 2013, 12:01 AM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
Posted by Rusty Bradley (Member # 6938) on :
I deleted what I wrote here because sometimes I write stuff that really doesn't help...thank you "edit" button.
[ February 13, 2013, 01:34 AM: Message edited by: Rusty Bradley ]
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Great article Joe
Posted by Rusty Bradley (Member # 6938) on :
Glenn...Oh I get your point...but we know from our past experiences that our points of view are just about as different as 2 people can have...so I'll leave it at that...I was not surprized that you would defend Walmart...I've never known you to back down to a challenge...and you are consistent...but when debating someone who was president of his high school debate team...well let's just say I know when to bow out...have a good day.
[ February 13, 2013, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: Rusty Bradley ]
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Facts suck, don't they Rusty. Look, I'm not defending Walmart. I just don't like to see anyone unfairly demonized. People want to use an emotional argument against Walmart. Emotion-based arguments are easy and present lazy thinking. I simply want to interject actual facts into that argument. The emotion-based argument will hold or it won't. That's all.
I admit I chuckle a bit when people pat themselves on their back and proudly proclaim that they never shop at Walmart because they pay low wages and hurt mom'n'pop shops.
These are usually the same people who willingly shop at JC Penneys which pays its employees even less than Walmart. When JC Penneys came to my town 40 years ago, a lot of mom'n'pop shops closed up as well. The very same benefit cuts Walmart is implementing today, JC Penney is also doing or have already done.
And in knowing all of this, I have to ask where are the protests against JC Penneys? Where are the back slapping "I'll never shop at Penneys blah blah blah!"?
If were suppose to hate Walmart and are to be consistent, shouldn't we be doing the same thing to Penneys?
Just asking.
Posted by Rusty Bradley (Member # 6938) on :
Glenn...your point is well taken when you state..."Like it or not, labor is a commodity."...that is all too true...but labor is much more than merely another commodity as part of any business model...it is real people...with families...and sure you may characterize that as an emotionally based argument...but that in and of itself does not invalidate the argument...in my way of thinking that is what anything and everything should be about.
[ February 13, 2013, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: Rusty Bradley ]
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
I understand that. But is the standard of living the responsibility the employer's or is it the responsibility of the individual?
Bad things happen to good people. I know. I've seen it. I've lived it. But I have a problem when we try to browbeat someone else into being responsible.
Experiencing difficulties and adversities in life can make us stronger. It helps us to become better people. And if we take those things away just to satisfy our own sense of justice, then we're not letting them grow. We are holding them back. And that doesn't help anyone. And that is why I believe that if someone is unhappy with their circumstances, its up to them do something about it. We just need to get out of the way.
Posted by Joseph Diaz (Member # 5913) on :
my 2 cents: Is it the "responsibility" of the employer? That's a debate for a different time, is it in the employer's best interest? Absolutely. For two reasons: A society with a higher standard of living purchase more goods and services. And a happier employee is a more productive employee.
Posted by Rusty Bradley (Member # 6938) on :
Glenn...I see where you're coming from and you make good points to represent your view...you are unequivocally an "individual responsibility" guy all the way...and the belief that government should play a limited and very small part in the lifes of the people or "stay out of the way" as you put it...is of utmost importance to you...and that's ok...it's a point of view shared by many...I personally think government can and should be a player for the betterment of the lifes of the people they represent...maybe next time around enough people will see it your way and there will be a guy in the White House that agrees with that point of view...this is as political as I will get and the last post I will make on this subject for fear that the wrath Steve may fall upon us...we've done this type of thing before...and we really do see things differently...but as they say...I hope we can agree to disagree agreeably...and I think we have...possibly the only thing we have in common may be our passion for sign making...and that would be a good thing that we can share and agree on...now tell me the truth...you were captian of your high school debate team...weren't you?
[ February 13, 2013, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: Rusty Bradley ]
Posted by Ricardo Davila (Member # 3854) on :
WOW !!.....
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Debate captain? Ha! My Irish/Italian blood more likely.
My POV is more along the line of Ben Franklin who said....
“I am for doing good to the poor, but…I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed…that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”
I want everyone to become richer. Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
There are sign shops down here that pay minimum wage to semi-skilled workers. They offer no benefits what-so-ever. People accept those jobs because they chose to. No one is forcing anyone to work anywhere.
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)