I have been asked to source a large format digital printer/cutter. I am looking for recommendations on the best current equipment on the market for fairly heavy use.
I understand that Latex printing ink systems are fairly new, but I am also looking into the advantages and or disadvantages of the system over solvent based systems?
I also need recommendations on a good quality...easy to use, lamination equipment.
Additionally, what is currently offered in an easy to install, long lasting, all around good quality substrate. Application will most likely not include many curved surfaces...if that helps.
I would appreciate any feedback you might be able to offer....if you have time to discuss your recommendations in further detail, send an email to me at: dmanor@wi.com and I'll reply with my contact info.
Thank you,
Posted by jack wills (Member # 521) on :
Dale,
If you haven't used "Signs365" yet, you might want to try them. I have had very good luck with them. My largest purchase was a 12'x30' ft banner 4 years ago, made great profit and it still looks good. It is used as a permanent sign. Real estate, adhesive prints, and a huge print for a houseboat hotel on MDO right on the bayfront here in Oregon. I no longer make signs but I would keep my overhead in control with less equipment...
Jack
Posted by Dale Manor (Member # 4858) on :
Thanks Jack,
I am also looking into wholesale printing and comparing the cost of that vs. having an in-house graphics department.
What I was hoping to learn by checking here on Letterville is, what is the best equipment for heavy use? Is it better to buy a cutter/printer combination machine, or separate equipment.
If the ISA sign expo was held this time of year, I'd fly out there and do some research. I thought I would check with people who use the equipment every day instead of hearing a one-sided sales pitch?
Basically I am trying to learn what it would cost to equip a shop with a dependable large format digital printing system.
I am talking about the entire cost....
Printer laminator cutter (if needed) prep table media maintenance (annual repair costs) facility (clean room) ventilation (if needed) and any additional expenses
Next week I am hoping to have a report ready for the parties interested. I am grateful to those who have helped me with this so far.
Thanks,
Posted by Kevin Gaffney (Member # 4240) on :
I've been using a seiko colorpainter64 for past six years. Had to replace three heads in that time. Fantastic machine with outstanding results. Quite a steep learning curve, color profiles etc. away on hols for a little so can't remember make of laminator, Italian I think. Anyway, printer can output 50 metres of quality graphics in five hours. Important to set up these machines to use third party inks as original inks can prove pricey
Posted by Sonny Franks (Member # 588) on :
You may also want to consider a direct print system if the budget allows. I sub out work to some friends who have a flatbed Vutek - substrate goes in one side and comes out the other finished - vinyl, banners, coroplast, aluminum, lexan, pvc, mdo, whatever....
Dale, I'll be glad to put you in touch with them if you're interested.....
Posted by Dale Manor (Member # 4858) on :
Thanks Sonny,
We will be applying graphics to finished 3D structural products so the flatbed method most likely will not be an option.
We are looking at high-volume prints applied as fast as we can make it happen. Most of the applications will be flat surfaces, with some subtle bends possible.
Just wondering if people prefer a stand alone printer and separate cutter or a printer/cutter setup?
To put it most simply.......
"If you were to set up a large format printing dream shop (not driven by cost) what would it include?"
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
I'm interested in the results, or your conclusions, too, Dale.
Out here we've found a few of the UV flat-bed printers to be not the wonder that people thought. The UV means UV-cure, not UV-stable, and many earlier prints have faded fairly quickly in the Aussie sun.
I've been offered a Roland SP-540V with takeup rollers, Versaworks RIP & PC, and 3rd party bulk Aussie eco-sol inks for $6K secondhand. That's a printer-cutter, 1370mm media width, and has only CMYK.
The other option was a Mimaki JV3, 1600mm wide - same inks as the Roland, but full-solvent I think (not sure), secondhand for $5K. No RIP or takeup rollers. Not a plotter/cutter-just a printer.
Posted by Tom & Kathy Durham (Member # 776) on :
We're on our second mimaki. The first was a 60 inch and worked great. It went with the business and they are still using it. It was just a printer and we had a second machine for cutting. The second is cut and print. Love it and it is very low maintence. Accordingly, they say the more it runs the better on maintence. If you are doing a high volume of printing, I would think a separate cutter would be the ticket. I like the solvent ink, just because it sounds tough and we have had great luck with the color holding up. I'm sure there are just as many sucess stories with other brands and inks. I would look into things like ink head replacements and easy of rip programs. Good luck
Posted by Gary Boros (Member # 8487) on :
Dale, I've had a Mimaki JV3 and I currently have an HP latex printer. The Mimaki solvent printer was a great piece of equipment however, the hazardous inks and the daily maintenance were more than I could bear. I now have the HP latex and find it to be a good machine capable of doing everything the Mimaki could do except for printing direct to PVC but it is better at printing fabric type substrates. Also, there is virtually no maintenance and greater ease and lower cost to consumable materials such as print head replacement and ink.
I also have a Royal Sovereign laminator, which performs flawlessly, enabling me to laminate full rolls of material in one shot. I think it is the best value in a laminator and gives you features only available in much higher costing machines. I think it is essential to have 5 roll holders on a laminator, one for the laminate, one for liner take up, one for craft paper, one for your substrate and one for a laminated substrate take up. These you can get on a RS. If you want a higher end laminator, I'd recommend the Seal Pro series. Also, only cold lamination will be needed for your use.
I would absolutely recommend a separate printer and plotter and not a combination machine. There are many reasons, some of which are if there is a problem with a combination machine you lose the function of both, also you can only print or plot at one time with a combo machine which is very inconvenient, also printers have a very limited lifespan where plotters last a very long time but if you have a combo machine you'll lose your plotting capability prematurely. I could go on and on but separate machines are definitely the way to go.
Posted by Dale Manor (Member # 4858) on :
Hi Gary,
Great info, thanks.
Just wondering if you considered the Mimaki JV-400 Latex Printer when you switched to the HP? If so what made you decide to go with the HP?
Thanks also to Tom & Kat for your help.....putting together some great notes for my meeting next week.
Will be visiting Midwest Sign in Milwaukee soon to see some printers in action and get more information.
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
My rep told me to not even consider in house printing until your wholesale printing purchases go over $7,000 per year.
Posted by Gary Boros (Member # 8487) on :
Dale, the Mimaki JV-400 didn't exist when I purchased my HP. I have great respect for the Mimaki brand so I would definately consider one of those today, although now that I have experience with the HP who inovated this technology, it would be a very careful consideration. Give me a call if you have questions when you are looking and I'll be happy to help if I can.
Posted by Dennis Raap (Member # 3632) on :
Dale I agree with Gary I would go with two separate machines. We had a VersaCamm that would print and cut but as time went on we found ourselves printing and using our Graphtec for the cutting. We now have a HP Latex printer it does a great job. Hp was the only company that had the latex inks when we got ours. We had good luck with our VersaCamm and would still be using it except we took a surge last August the parts we needed were not available and no VersaCamms either (Japans tsunami had things all backed up).
Posted by Dale Manor (Member # 4858) on :
Just wondering what kind of RIP software everyone is running with their machines? I know Roland has their own. I guess more specifically, what are you using with the HP Latex Printer?
Anyone find a good quality prep table. I looked up the RollsRoller but I'm not sure if we need something that elaborate?
Thanks again
Posted by Gary Boros (Member # 8487) on :
I used the Mimaki Rasterlink RIP with my Mimaki and it performed excellently despite the fact that many people would scoff at it. I now use Flexi Photo Print with the HP, which is a Flexi RIP designed specifically for the HP as I do not have the full Flexi program. Again many would consider it a light weight RIP contender but I have found it to be very adequate. If your needs are to run multiple machines or you are very much into creating custom profiles then you might consider other software such as Onyx or Caldera. The Caldera has many followers but only runs on a Linux operating system, which makes life far more complicated than necessary for my taste.
The RollsRoller is a nice piece of equipment but there is also a US made competitor, the Rouge Roller that you might want to look at. Otherwise just a nice big table at least 60" x 120" with a self healing cutting mat does the job.
[ August 04, 2012, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: Gary Boros ]
Posted by Dale Manor (Member # 4858) on :
Update and question(s)
Looking more and more at the HP Latex option.
I am wondering for one, which type of media you would recommend for air egress Vinyl Printing Media?
Are most people using 3M Controltac for their wrap media?
Does Oracal or any other company make a similar product that you would recommend?
Anyone using BigSol brand Media?
Are most of you purchasing your media locally or from a larger supplier from out of your area.
Thanks,
Posted by Ben Diaz (Member # 7319) on :
We don't do really any full wraps but we have been using the oracal version of controltac which is called RA or Rapid Air for a while now & really like it for workability & durability. Specifically we use Orajet 3951G RA print media & Oraguard 290G laminate on just about everything. We also print using a VersaCamm SP 300i & eco sol inks. We do alot of work on semis, so the graphics take alot of abuse due to road wear & sunlight, but we have had trucks come back years later to have graphics repaired because of accidents & the old colors looked just as good as the new.
Posted by Dale Manor (Member # 4858) on :
Thanks Ben, very helpful info...
Any good suppliers for digital printed media in the upper Midwest area that you might recommend?
thanks
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
I agree with Ben, I have been using the VersaCamm now for almost 8 years, 2 years ago I reinvested in the newer 540 model... I have wrapped dozens of trucks and trailers as well as Vans, and the thing is a work horse, and like Ben's experience, they last for many many years.. I use Arlons version of control Tac... I find it has more Tack than 3m and holds creases a lot better... My 2cents worth.
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
We use Caldera RIP software for the two Vutek Grand format printers, the HP large format latex printer, and the VersaCamm eco-sol printer. We use Cutting Master to cut to the Graphtec from CS6 on a MAC. This works for contour cutting as well.
We use all 3M for vinyl and laminates.
Posted by Regina Rae (Member # 4024) on :
(As a small sign shop~) I took Mr. Jack Will's advice and checked out signs355.com. WoW! I'm impressed. Thanks!
Posted by Bill Modzel (Member # 22) on :
Bruce, I just set up a MacMini with Caldera last week. I have no room for another workstation so I have it set up for screen sharing with my MacPro and I'm loving not haveing to run parallels/xp/PosterJet anymore. I'm still liking the CuttingMaster workflow though. It's simple and amazingly accurate.
Posted by Felix Marcano (Member # 1833) on :
I don't have a printer, but FYI I stuck a test print from an HP latex to a piece of PVC & put it on the roof of my shop. Print lasted 8 months with no lamination on the roof of my shop (Full sun). Mind you we're in Puerto Rico, I'm sure it'll vary from one location to the next.
Posted by Dale Manor (Member # 4858) on :
The only problem with Signs365 is that they only sell to the sign trade, which apparently we do not qualify for. So, that being the case, we then have to go through another middle man and deal with the cost, time, and hassles involved there......no offense, we just don't have that kind of time usually.
Therefore, I am looking into other wholesale printers in this area for our quantity printing needs. If anyone knows anyone that does UV high volume work, let me know.
