Now, has anyone ever tested how far they can go on various blends of alcohol/gasoline? A Ford dealer told me last week they he gets 15% better mileage with BP gas, compared to a common brand here with 20% alcohol. Any substance to this?
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Preston... do a google search on Ethanol laden gasoline... it's HORRIBLE for engines... destroys them - attacks gaskets, etc. Plus, the 'Flex-Fuel' is not nearly as energy efficient as regular gasoline.... you'll get significantly lower MPG. I have a few friends who gave it a try and confirm this.
Go green and prepare to get the 'green weenie.'
Edit: Whatever happened to Hydrogen powered vehicles? We were promised this eco-friendly technology and infrastructure would be in place about 5 years ago....???
[ April 23, 2012, 06:45 AM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
todd you do realize that the original internal combustion engine ran on not gasoline but COAL OIL? what you would consider kerosene today. ETHANOL is same as white lightning. all of Brazil is running their vehicles on a renewable plant based fuel. the gasoline you buy today is not the gasoline of the 50's. why do you thing they sell STA-BIL and OCTANE 104+??? the fact is without the ethanol added to todays gasoline, it it closer to diesel fuel))))))))))))))))
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Politics is in everything... which is why it's hard not to talk about it...
Read this, OP... and make sure to read the short ending on the 2nd page.
THE carburetor messed up on my 65 falcon six cylinder many years back, trash blocking the fuel flow or something, and mileage jumped to 50 mpg, up from 25 mpg
It would barely pull itself out of its tracks on takeoff, but ran fine once you got moving.
Then one day the trash blew itself out and the car was easier to drive but mileage went to 25 mpg
true story
see how stories about gas mileage "spark" so many emotions and stories and political arguments?
know this when it comes to the game of driving cars: it's a game none of us can win
ps -- "growing" your fuel is silly ... I'd have to go with Todd on this one ...
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Turning the fuel to vapor as it enters the carburetor or fuel injectors is the key to high gas mileage, car manufacturers know this and are in cahoots with oil companies which has been going on for years through lobbyists and as much as some do not want to believe their politicians would do something like this, they are just in denial. I am sure you have a clue to what I'm talking about.
Here is Oregon I buy gasoline without Ethanol for my vehicles which require hi-test but left with 10% Ethanol gasoline for the regular vehicles. I have five vehicles not counting my farm equipment..
Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
here in central arkansas they are starting to build more and more compressed natural gas stations- haven't done any research yet, but some of the guys that I know that are driving work trucks on CNG really like it and it is a little over $1 a gallon
Posted by Michael Gene Adkins (Member # 882) on :
it was quite common for a few decades here in oklahoma for people to put propane on trucks when they still had carbs
mileage was better but not in the miraculous range. performance was better. once fuel injected took over, there were few people doing it. but propane is still cheaper than gasoline.
the solution is to emulate the power of the sun and put a star drive on everything.....
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Many vehicles are running dual fuel systems with gasoline and CNG/propane tanks.
The problem is that California places a "Road Use" Tax on the fuel.
The "hot trucks" (rolling Restaurants) get around this by filling up their cooking fuel tanks (tax exempt) with CNG/propane, and run their engine from there ... except when they see an Inspector, and quickly switch back to gasoline!
[ April 23, 2012, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Joey - so you're saying both Bush AND Obama are in on a plot to stifle advances in energy economy? Really? Curious how you have the inside track to this information that nobody else seems to have?
[ April 23, 2012, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
Alcohol of just about any type burns at right at twice the rate of gasoline. If gasoline is cut by 20% alcohol, the mpg is going to drop. I'll let somebody else do the math. OP has to be correct in his statement that today's gasoline is close to diesel, at least my nose agrees with him. I haven't noticed it lately but for most of last year gasoline smelled more like diesel. Years back, I worked at a Ford dealership. One of our customers was the local propane dealership. All their vehicles ran on propane. I don't remember how they did mpg wise but they were always in the shop for head work. They ran special heads and still were problematic. Propane is murder on valve guides.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
politics NOT THE ISSUE..........ITS GREED. the oil companies are at the top of that list. people who understand mechanical stuff know this more then those who cant tell a spark plug from a fuel injector and how and why each works and where they are and how to replace em. so taking that into a conversation, i sorta go with the guy who knows motors. in my days under the hood, i can tell you i have seen a lot things work that most of you have no idea of. 1951, our next door neighbor bought a brand new ford V8 car. he was so suprised with the gas mileage of this car. 1951, nobody cared, and flatheads where notoriously GAS HOGS!!! the 239 c.i. was feed fuel with a poorly atomizing old stromberg 97 carb that basically poured gas in. also most had HAND CHOCKS. you closed off the air intake and poured raw fuel to the pistons to get it started. anyway this guy was lovin that car as he drove almost 60 miles a day to his job. one day this 51 ford panel wagon comes to his house, had a big ford logo on both sides. seems the car he bought got outa Detroit with an experimental carburetor on it and FORD wanted it back. so they offered him ANOTHER BRAND NEW CAR, if he would let FORD change the carb on his car. so the techknowlegy was there IN 1951.........but they dont want you to know this. 1963 i had the opportunity to see in person a 1962 pontiac with over 100K on it and NEVER HAD AN OIL CHANGE. guy had invented an "on the engine oil cleaning system." all he did was change the oil filter, which was a roll of toilet paper!!!!! iam not kidding. and he would had maybe a 1/2 qt oil when he did filter change. never seen it after that. i imagine that guy got paid well buy the iol companies for his invention, and it will never see the market. while living in Sarasota fl all the school buses, sheriffs vehicles where PROPANE FUELED!!!
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Todd, what I am saying had nothing to do with Bush or Obama. I was simply stating that vaporizing the fuel is the key to high gas mileage and was squashed decades ago by oil companies and politicians and that is a fact..
Todd, you do know what a decade is, don't you? Well decades are more than one..
Posted by Brian Dish (Member # 10782) on :
OP all I know is oil has a shearing factor and when the oil shears it looses it lubricty. You know they have by-pass oil filers on big rigs, and these guy get 100,000's miles without changing oil, they just change filters and occassionally add additives, but when the shearing factor of the oil gets too low they must change it! If you run compressed fuels (CNG or propane) in an engine you should have a way to lubricate the valves and also the cylinde above the rings. this will greatly increase te engines life.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Joe, you can still buy those toilet roll oil filters somewhere on the Internet.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Joey - when you said 'Politicians are in cahoots with oil companies'.... I assume that would have to include the politicians who are in constant meetings regarding this countries' energy policy. That would mean both Republicans AND Democrats.
Simply making statements like this, like you have inside info on something doesn't hold much water.
Please show me irrefutable evidence that high gas mileage cars were squashed by oil companies and politicians. I'm not disagreeing that it could have happened... I just don't blindly accept every rumor put out by people on the street.
Yes, I know what a decade is. What does that have to do with anything??
Here's some interesting facts on oil profits... if you care to read ...
brian oil never reaches that point you speak of. oil is a lubricant. graphite is a lubricant, molybdenum is a lubricant. most never change molecular structure but they do migrate away from surface they are used to stop wear. i also worked 15 years at NAPA, and went to valvoline oil sales training classes. was also a fuels specialist in the air force..........
Posted by Dale Feicke (Member # 767) on :
I think Joey's right about vaporization of fuel. Aside from going back to the past and reading all the articles about different ways people have tried to heat incoming fuel, to make it vaporize better; most of the new vehicles use direct fuel injection. That means the fuel is atomized right at the intake valve under high pressure. Look at the fuel pressure readings of almost any new car; most are in the 60-90 psi range, with some diesels well over a hundred.....which by the way, is a big factor in the vastly increased performance and economy of modern diesels/
The negative side.....some of them involved in crashes, have had huge fires, due to fuel spraying under high pressure, if a line is severed and the ignition is still on. Most cars now have a shutoff that energizes on impact.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
high pressure fuel is no for atomization, but because of how direct port injectors open and close. they open for a fraction of a second, the fuel is sprayed into the combustion chamber NOW there has to be enough fuel pressure on the backside of the injector, or else when the fuel in the combustion chamber is fired off..........it cant open the injector. diesels are higher pressure because of the increased compression to fire the fuel without an igniter. the old carbs worked on a small piston to push fuel to the jets where it was sprayed into the carb throat. so really not a good way & most of these carb/ mechanical fuel pumps only had 5 to 7 pounds of pressure to the needle and seat in the carb which opened to allow fuel in to carb and shut fuel off when fuel bowl was full.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Todd, its not a myth, your link is one episode. Even Smokey Yunick worked on the method, you know who Smokey was don't ya? There had been many patents since the 1930's but you are not into this so you simply cannot understand, yet doing a Google search makes you happy when you find something that disagrees with others.
Todd, I think you are and have been a talented person, but a follower and not innovative enough to think for yourself and so the story goes.....
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
I never really bought the argument that ethanol was better for the environment. You go fewer miles, and have to fill up more often, which equates to buying more gas. Seems like a really good deal for those people producing ethanol and gasoline.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
BTW fellas, my 1990 Chevy Silverado pick-up truck gets around 27 to 29 mpg on the freeways and around 20 in traffic. It has a 96 Corvette 330HP engine and six speed manual transmission. It can cruise at 90 mph at 2000 rpm and handle better than most sports cars due to my suspension work.
For my next trick, I'm building a 09 3.6 Dodge V6 police car engine with twin turbos for my 64 Signet, this engine in stock form pushes 368 hp and gets around 30 mpg in a 4500 pound Charger, my Signet weights 2400 pounds. I also have the 8 speed automatic transmission to go with it. Should be very interesting this coming winter. Hers a partial photo of both vehicles.
[ April 23, 2012, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: Joey Madden ]
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
I lived right across from smokeys place in Daytona beach. Any one and every one around the age of 20 was in his place learning and puttering around. I was there when he wrote an article about his windmill back in the 70's
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Joey - hehe... So, you think there have not been a single person able to duplicate this one guy's 'invention' which supposedly got 100 mpg in all these years since this urban rumor elevated itself to Americana legend status?
Surely, you don't think the oil companies have a spy network which walks among us; systematically seeking out every individual that has happened upon the 100 mpg discovery since... buying them off or breaking their legs to shut them up, or stealing their 'only set' of diagrams?
I'm not saying industry does not, or has not screwed a basement entrepreneur over on occasion. Ford pimped over the guy who invented the intermittent windshield wiper mechanism. I think he finally won a lawsuit against the big 3 automakers of yesteryear about the time he died.
But with the energy crunch we have now.. don't you think someone like Obama - in an election year, wouldn't parade out this 'miracle invention' out of the government vaults and be the savior of the economy... ensuring his re-election?
Does the fact that you drive down the left lane, and stay between the lines make you a follower as well? Does paying your taxes, bills on time, and wearing clothes in the supermarket make you a follower? Would you paint a peeing Calvin, or Pluto on someone's fender if asked?
I just find it laughable to think that in all the years since this 'energy miracle' supposedly existed... which has never been verified, never been photographed, never documented - because it was thwarted by un-named evil sources... that some brilliant person like Steve Jobs has not figured out how it was done and marketed it. It's just simply unfeasible.
By the way... you do know that the evil capitalist empire, Apple, is slated to make more profits in 2012 than Exxon/Mobile, right? How does that taint your opinion of Apple?
[ April 23, 2012, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Preston..Did you envision the discussion you have started when you first posted??? Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Whatdaya mean, Dave? We're still talking about gas! LOL
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Todd, in all my years of doing vehicle art and pinstriping, I've never done a peeing Calvin or most anything my customers wanted. Persons come to me because of what they've seen and than its up to me to give the vehicle what it needs. You may find that hard to believe yet its true and I made a living doing it my way for over fifty years.
As far as the vapor thingie, yes there are and were books on it, but as I said before, you cannot understand what you don't know, so lets just drop this as it can only go down from here and it doesn't do anything for either of us.
One more thing, I am not into conspiracy theories, government, religious wars or church and their activities and only do what I want and when I want just for myself so I can say, I done it my way in all the years I've been on this planet..
Posted by Brian Dish (Member # 10782) on :
OP you are in correct oil does meet the shearing factor! When oil is fed through an oil pump and pumped throught tight tolerances this constant squeezing of the oil cause it to reach it shearing point. And the heat makes it happen even faster! So you worked at NAPA woohoo!)))))))))
[ April 23, 2012, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: Brian Dish ]
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Uh oh! looks like this thread is about to disappear!
Posted by Preston McCall (Member # 351) on :
Now motorheads, I was just commenting on how cheap gas was this morning. I was also contemplating the economics of using ethanol. This rant about the 100 mpg carb or who is an expert on what is well past my original notion. I guess I shoulda never brung 'er up? Cheese Louise!
Anyone ever try Cisco Pep? They used to say it increased MPG, according to my dear old dad. Let's get back to adding life to One Shot!
Posted by Preston McCall (Member # 351) on :
BTW Joey, I am ultra impressed with the metal work on your Signet hood. I even like the scoop. 8 speed tranny? Where in the world did you find the bell housing?
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
I'm somewhat of a "conspiracy theorist" and want to add my 2¢
First, Todd is correct, ethanol, gasohol, etc. is rough on an engine and it's even rougher on small engines. If you let ethanol sit around for too long, the alcohol in the gas will attract water. And, everyone knows that engines and water do not mix well.
George is also correct. Alcohol is not as efficient and does not burn at the same rate as gasoline and there will be a drop in engine performance/mileage.
Now for the conspiracy... The first "EV"s were electric and date back to the early 1800's. Hybrids were available as early as 1916.
Jump ahead to the late 70's and early 80's when production cars were getting upwards of 50+ mpg.
And then there was the GM electric car, the EV1 in the 90's. Later generations were traveling up to 140 miles on a single charge. Then the program was scrapped and nearly all the cars were destroyed - despite a significant interest by the "tree huggers".
"Alternate" fuel cars have been tested and introduced by many companies, only to not receive proper refueling support from the "service stations" and gas industry. Only recently, has there been any (still minimal) support for CNG and electric "fueling stations". And, most of these are government sponsored (aka taxpayer funded) and/or used exclusively by private fleet owners and not available to the general public.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
I use oil in my lettering brushes.
Posted by Dale Feicke (Member # 767) on :
OH YEAH?????!!!???!!!!!!!
Posted by Preston McCall (Member # 351) on :
The Chevy Sprint got 54 MPG in 87....but no one wanted it. It was like driving a short bread box, 3 cyl and rattled right off the showroom. I recall it was imported from KIA or Daiwoo and was a box of rocks. My 65 VW got 38 MPG and was a fun car to drive. My 66 GTO got 17 MPG, the same as most pickups today. Must have been the Ethyl.
Someone mentioned Hydrogen. GM did alot on this, but never released the car or built many. Back when Bush Sr. was in office, they said once oil got to $85 a barrel, it would be affordable. I think the problem is the filling being so explosive, but isn't Nat Gas the same volitility? Hydrogen is beautiful. Only biproduct is water and some oxygen, I remember.
Then there is always rubber bands! Wind 'er up and drive all day? Maybe hook it into a tread mill in the morning and get your exercise?
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
if los angles had ALL HYDROGEN VEHICLES........it would soon be as wet as SEATTLE WASHINGTON!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Ray - how many lines per litre of oil can you pull?
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Raymond doesn't pull lines that's my job, Raymond pushes lines with his lettering brushes Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
Joey's right. I'm not a line puller by any stretch of the imagination, but I have pushed a few letters around. Each takes its own unique set of abilities.
Luckily, I don't have to know anything about oil, gas, pressure, or mileage.
You guys go ahead and try to decide whose the smartest...I'll just keep doing signs.
Posted by Preston McCall (Member # 351) on :
I honestly think Joey is probably the smartest about gasoline and OP the most intelligent with the facts...or is it the other way around?
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
I may not be the smartest about gas... but I must be about printers. How are you liking your new Epson, Ray?
Posted by Rodger MacMunn (Member # 4316) on :
It's funny how gas prices wind us all up. Back in '99, gas here went up by about .07 or .08/ litre & all hell broke loose. I had a retail spot on the TransCanada at the time which sold everything from carved signs to milk, fine art & souvenirs & my business dropped big time because people just stayed home. I figured out, the average person at the time was driving a Camry or Accord ( 40mpg Imperial Gallon) & someone from Toronto going to Quebec City ( 550 miles) for a holiday would have spent about $20 more in fuel costs. If that $20 was the deal-breaker, they couldn't afford the holiday in the first place.....
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
Todd - the printer is working fine. I'm really pleased with it. My only problem is that OP must have had some influence on Epson because at the bottom of every page it prints "It's Bush's Fault".
Don't get your panties in a wad...it's a joke, folks! Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
iam glad you like the printer ray. if you do a lot of printing with it that model has the option to replace the 6 carts with a bulk ink system from CIS INK. this was one of the reason i bought it. i have a HP K850 OFFICEJET, 4 color. the original carts for this one are $38 EACH!!! for $49 i converted it to a bulk tank & carts with hoses. the 4 oz refill inks cost me $28 for all 4 colors. but the epson doesnt seem to use a lot of ink. the printer post even had TODD & I having a phone conversation!!!!
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Glad you like the printer, Ray - Epson wide format has been very reliable and impressive for me.
Don't get Joe started... we talked on the phone the other day, and now I find it hard to insult him - since we have sort of 'met.' )))))))))))))
Ah, what the heck... bust his chops anyway - it's good for his heart.
Hey Joe - is the bulk ink system available for the Epson R1900? And if so, is it reliable? Is the ink 'Epson' ink or a third party? Doesn't clog the heads, does it? And... finally, is it a cluster-hump in the way it stores next to the printer? Can you post a pic of what it looks like with your printer?
Sorry - so many questions....
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
I recall driving out of a gas station on a trip in 1973 because they wanted 34 cents a gallon for their gas. The crooks!
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
Joe and Todd are talking to each other? Don't tell me hell is freezing over.
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
David - once while in college (mid 60's) there was a gas war in town and at the lowest it was 12.9 a gallon.
Good thing, too. The 56 Ford (with a highway patrol engine) that I was driving only got 6 miles to the gallon. Probably because I leaned on the accelerator a little too much.
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
quote:Joe and Todd are talking to each other? Don't tell me hell is freezing over.
Climate change. Somebody's fault!
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
I gotta say; Joe is quite a nice fellow.... and fun to talk with. We had a great little conversation, and I hope to chat with him again some day.
I looked out the window after we ended our call... and by golly, there was a glaze of ice all over my property.... Does this mean my house is built right on top of H - E - Double toothpicks????
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
There is a Hell, Michigan.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
dave you and ray tryin to start some SCHIT??? hehehehehehehehe
Posted by Craig Sjoquist (Member # 4684) on :
Any body try Hydroxy.. added to there engine fuel??
Posted by Dale Feicke (Member # 767) on :
You'd betterstay away from that stuff Craig...bad stuff can happen.....
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
i just bought a can of CATA-CLEAN today. have had the check engine light come on in the 2002 Toyota couple times. mechainic says new catalytic converter!!!! $500...........CATA -CLEAN $29, hummmmmmmmm http://catacleanus.com/ Posted by Preston McCall (Member # 351) on :
$3.30 a gallon this morning! Finally some serious dip.
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Preston McCall: Now motorheads, I was just commenting on how cheap gas was this morning.
See what they're doing? Preston thinks $3.58 a gallon is cheap! Mission accomplished. When they jack it up to $5.50 a gallon, we'll think $4.78 a gallon is cheap.
Edit: Years ago I read an article that explained that they figured gasoline, using 100% of the potential energy contained in a gallon of gasoline, you would get 100 miles to the gallon. With heat loss due to combustion part of the released energy equation, even 100 mph would be impossible.
[ May 04, 2012, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: Dave Sherby ]
Posted by Rusty Bradley (Member # 6938) on :
Gas prices are like the weather to me...no amount of bitchin and complainin will change a thing...so I just pay up at the pump and roll down the road...seriously though...we've got to continue developing alternative energy sources and get away from fossil fuels as soon as possible.
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