I haven't been able to get a comment out of my head.... Dan Sawatzky said "we also don't route much wood in our shop as it is just far too unstable for signs." That lead me to the question - how long should a sign last? I've got signs that are 20 years old on MDO that still are functional albeit starting to get a bit shabby. On the other hand I have MDO signs where the painted background is gone and the vinyl letters that were supposed to be the limiting factor look like new. I've gone to great lengths to produce a durable sign for businesses that didn't last more than a year, and I have done some signs that have failed within 5 years. I generally hope/aim for a life span of 10 years. Just curious to others thoughts on this.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Kelly..It just happens that we drove past a veterinary place whose sign I din 15+ years ago.
MDO, background sprayed with automotive silver metallic, lettering as done with Avery 2 mil.
Still looks fine.
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
About 35 years ago ... I painted various logos on a TV Repair Shop using 1Shot, in red and black (Customers decision) ... drove by it 2 years ago and still looked good.
Drove by it recently ... new occupants and building completely repainted white again.
I wish today's paints held up like that!
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
Well, products are not the same anymore, I have a sandblasted sign out there that I did 25years ago, clear pine, 2" thick, 2ft x 8ft, painted with Acrylic latex.. it is almost as good as new. I've seen old MDO Signs painted with 1 shot I did 15 years ago and they are still good.... I'm finding that the substrates don't hold up... I did some digital prints mounted on Dibond that have been up on the TCH over 5 years ago and they still look like new, yes they are laminated... Lamination works as good or better than a clear coat... MDO is crap!
Posted by Dan Sawatzky (Member # 88) on :
My comment about wood relates to my experience from twenty or more years ago - back when we were using redwood and cedar to make sandblasted signs. Oil paints (One Shot) was the norm in those days.
The signs I made then simply didn't last in our damp climate. Some failed in a year of less. I still have some of those signs, hung on my shop wall. I use them as a sales tool, to explain to clients why we use 30 lb Precision Board instead.
As to the question of how long should a sign last?? I don't offer guarantees of X number of years on my signs. I do state I will stand behind them and do. In the event of a premature failure (less than 2-3 years there is often a good reason. I take care of it and learn from the experience.
We have plenty of signs that are 5 - 10 - or more old still up and doing well.
-grampa dan
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
I think the better way of addressing this is to ask...
"How long should the MATERIALS you use to make a sign last."
As Si mentioned, the paints we use today aren't made the way they were in years past. A white sign that has held up well over 30 years may have been done with paints and materials no longer available. Granted, they may have worked better, but things like lead content, carcinogens and other harmful chemicals have been removed for our safety. In the last few years, paint manufacturers have tried adding silicon, reducing oil based paint production and leaned toward water borne and water based paints. Sadly, many of these changes occur without our being notified. The same can of paint we could rely on only months before can be removed from the shelf and the new stuff, with the same label, replaces it. We don't know what's been done to it until it goes out of our shop. Only time can tell us if it's going to last as well and we are all going to have different results based on everything from sun exposure, weather conditions and how we each differ in our methods.
I've had signs last 20 years and customers complain about it fading after all those years. I've also had a few signs that decayed faster than I expected but the customers felt they were effective and worth the cost of replacing.
I guess I look at it more as how "well" a sign lasts more than how "long". Rapid
Posted by Terry Colley (Member # 1245) on :
many signs I have done over the years have lasted longer than the business they were for!
Posted by bruce ward (Member # 1289) on :
what Terry said.
MDO and one shot back in the day was all you needed. No clearcoating. One Shot would protect anything from the elements. MDO was great. All of these products now suck. And I am seeing some PVC that sucks. Warping when heat hits it.
If I do a client an aluminum sign with 1" aluminum frame behind it painted and clearcoated it should last them over 10 years. Who knows these days.
I had a banner up in an adjoining town for over 6 years and it still looked good. We sure didnt plan on leaving it up that long. It's a crap shoot
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
But do we really want these signs to last 30 years? If I make a $600 ACP and vinyl sign and the client gets 6 years out of it, that's $100/year, sounds pretty reasonable to me. I always spend the extra to use HP Vinyl, but should I?
I've noticed a big change in vinyl on MDO signs, mine and others, often the vinyl is looking good long after the background is gone. It used to be the vinyl would crack and peel and be the weakest link.
Even coroplast seems to give 3 years in our environment. Cover it with a laminated digital print and it will likely give 6 or 7.
I agree with Terry, a lot of the signs I make last longer than the business they were made for. I hope that isn't saying anything about the design.
Don't get me wrong, I like to ensure the client gets the best bang for their buck, but sometimes I wonder if this quest I have for finding and using materials that will last longer is actually counter productive to the industry in general. Are we stabbing ourselves in the foot by changing the expectations of the public?
Posted by Michael Gene Adkins (Member # 882) on :
I have a sign out there that is 15 years old now. It was done on soffet board. I used to paint the porous back of these layers deep. This sealed it so well it was scary. The sign still has vivid color not much dulling. They dont make the paint i used anymore. It was benjamin moore impervo. Better than one shot. I see this sign lasting 20 easy and looking good doing it. Signs used to always last that long around here when handpainted. Sadly not anymore. Dibond and hi-performance vinlys looking good for about 10 years plus. Anything with a background you painted is likely in trouble.
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
That question is similar to "How much does a sign cost?".
I want mine to last forever, but that's not practical.
Some last 20 years, some don't. I hate to fall into the trap of blaming everything on the materials produced today, but it seems to be a major factor.
Posted by Duncan Wilkie (Member # 132) on :
'til the check clears. :>
Posted by Craig Sjoquist (Member # 4684) on :
If they last 3 years, I would think is a good start for any permanent sign 5 years might be a good average, would think after 7 years would hope customer has really paid for it such as it was high and tough to reach or payed extra for better materials and labor it takes.
The reason I say such low amount of years if you think so, buy a car most are 5 years warranty even that is limited. Most businesses need to keep changing to keep interest or even just clean up a bit, if they even last that long. The biggest YOU need to make money, and if your not getting extra for long lasting signage, your leaving money on the table.
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