I had a meeting with a dentist for new signage yesterday. In doing so, I thought I would look online prior to my meeting to see if there were any comments from dentists on what they saw as vital for their sign's copy - or graphics. Didn't figure I'd get much info - but I DID find something . . .
And it ****ed me off. Royally . . .
Read down to the 7th bullet point and see what you think . . .
I sent the guy an email chastising him for his libelous comment . . . Feel free to do the same.
The hypocrisy behind putting up a web page about signs and their REAL importance in a dental business - THEN including that remark was stunning to me . . . and part of the flaw in client-vendor relationships. TRUST is much harder to come by when you have douchebags like this "expert" consulting other dentists in the country . . . and telling them THAT.
We'll see how this d-bag replies to me . . .if he even does.
AAAARRRGGGHHHHHH . . .
All you richass, Mercedes-driving sign business owners please stand up . . . Hey wait, why is everybody sitting?
Thanks for the venting . . . I feel better. Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Hmmmm....he's got us right up there with politicians.
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
So, if the plane with the dental marketing expert was hit by a "friendly fire" missile...
Posted by Roy Frisby (Member # 736) on :
If he is all that great a dentist, why is he having to sell books? All the dentists I know are good enough to have a full practice without having to resort to fancy signage to entice patients. This is the type of customer that is told to go somewhere else, I don't have time to deal with the likes of him. What a pompus ass SOB!
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Talk about thieves?
quote: How to use your dental office sign to "Pre-Heat" your new patients for higher case acceptance.
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
Well, I tried everything from shoplifting to corporate embezzlement and internet scams but when I discovered signs, I knew I was into the real money. Now, I've ripped off enough dentists to cover the publishing of my new best selling book "The Wealthy Signmaker". GET YOURS TODAY! ...and don't forget the 5 FREE bonus gifts....they won't last long at just $247
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
So, that begs the question....How do you "Pre-Heat" your customers?
Posted by James Chrimes (Member # 5864) on :
you "Pre-Heat" by giving the customer the bill before doing the cleaning, and they see how much the dentist charges.
Posted by Jay Allen (Member # 195) on :
How about it, Si? Hypocrisy 101
I don't even know if the guy is or was a dentist. He and his wife ("the brains of the organization" according to him - no kidding??) started this industry-specific consulting business . . . and he never mentions his background: http://www.thewealthydentist.com/JimDuMolin-biography.htm
I think he may have been a financial planner . . . but who knows?
Whatever his background, his comments are libelous - and if I had a lwayer for a relative, I'd scare him a bit with a nasty letter and veiled threat if he didn't remove it from the web page. But he'd still be saying as much in his seminars . . . and publications.
I sent him the email nastygram - and our portfolio . . . and dared him to find me a RICH sign shop owner. I bet anything I hear crickets from him and the brain-trust of the Du Molin 'team'.
Funny thing . . . read his comments on his public speaking gigs (funny thing, he seems motivated by money - but denies sign shop owners the right to charge for fair work??):
Things to understand:
1.Jim teaches marketing. He likes to practice what he preaches. 2.When Jim speaks, he generally gives each doctor in the audience from $500 to $750 in free marketing services that can generate new high-value patients for them immediately. 3.Don't ask Jim to reduce his fee. He is not a managed care speaker. 4.Jim only speaks to audiences with a minimum of 100 doctors. 5.Don't ask Jim to speak for free to get "exposure". He has spoken to over 200 dental continuing education organizations. Click here for a partial list. If you want him to expose himself on your organization's stage, he will be happy to oblige... for his normal fee. 6.Jim does not speak for free at charitable events. Jim likes to keep his business separate from his charitable contributions. 7.Jim's fee is the same for a half day presentation as a full day. 8.Jim will normally arrive for the speaking engagement or dental seminar the night before the presentation so that he is well rested and relaxed for his presentation to your continuing education organization. 9.Jim will be happy to attend all group social functions to which he is invited to as part of the event. He will be happy to eat meals and socialize with dental seminar attendees at breaks and before and after the meeting. Jim actually likes dentists.
I have a series of 4 letter words for this creep . . . but I'm afraid he'd charge me to use them against him. Glad I'm not the only one appalled here . . .
Posted by Jay Allen (Member # 195) on :
Found this tidbit on his site also:
Jim has two fee schedules - based on your organization's attitude about dental speakers promoting their products from the stage.
1. For organizations who frown, disapprove of, or discourage speakers from promoting their services or products from the stage, Jim's rate is $10,225 a day.
2. For organizations that will allow speakers to promote their services and products in a tasteful, non-confrontational and mannerly way, the fee is $4,500 a day. This includes a sales table in the back of the room where doctors can view samples and place orders.
******
Now that I know how much he charges, he MUST know what he's talking about . . . <sigh>
What a tool . . .
Posted by Joseph Diaz (Member # 5913) on :
Glenn, I'm not totally sure, but at our shop we often talk about our customers as if they were frozen pizzas. But what would you expect from us "thieves".
Now if you won't mind I have a customer that needs to be defrosted. Be back in 20 to 24 minutes depending on the altitude.
[ April 28, 2011, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: Joseph Diaz ]
Posted by Joseph Diaz (Member # 5913) on :
Hey Jay, do you think he would appreciate people "negotiating" his rate? LOL
Posted by Brent Logan (Member # 6587) on :
I've never sold a sign to a dentist yet who wasn't a major PITA to deal with. Usually it's about 8 or 9 design revisions before they make up their frickin' mind on what they want. Total control freaks.
Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
Let him have it on his Facebook page.
Posted by Jay Allen (Member # 195) on :
Brent . . . that's probably due to what this a$$hat preaches . . .!!!
Joe, EXACTAMUNDO . . . He would NOT appreciate people negotiating his rates. How this tool cannot see through his own hypocrisy is astounding.
But THAT is the key to how he needs to promote himself - so excess charges show how the 'game' is played.
What he doesn't realize is that with respect to the sign company and his promotionof negativity, his is NOT a victimless crime. We suffer for his narrowmindedness.
I hope he replies to me . . . I chose purposely to use the word 'libelous' 4 or 5 times. While he didn't attack an individual or company specifically (the true definition of libel is written - slander is oral), he needed to be slapped down and shown his hypocrisy.
I mentioned that signs - when measure by CPM (cost per viewing) is THE least expensive means of advertising . . . thereby factually proving his own ignorance.
"Negotiate the price lower, even though it's the best deal on advertising you'll ever get" is NOT the message he should send. He should be promoting QUALITY work and touting (as he does) the VALUE and IMPORTANCE of signage . . . but niot slam the industry after he does so. Garbage-design signage IS thievery in my book. Quality isn't THAT much more . . . So let him preach that message with our blessing . . .
But don't hate on our profession, buddy . . . Especially when you aren't qualified.
Posted by Pete Payne (Member # 344) on :
geezJay, he sure got your pink knickers in a twist, I'm just mad because he's smart enough to get paid more for talking about signs than we are for making them. I'll check back tommorrow, right now I have to go detail my dentists mercedes, i have kids with braces... hey wait a minute, how come signs are supposed to be cheap but last forever but braces are 6 grand per kid and only last 3 years? ( the braces, not the kids)THEIVES!!!!!!!!
Posted by Bill Wood (Member # 6543) on :
Dentist base their business on a customers desperate attempt to improve their looks or assist them in pain removal.We all have experienced this and had no choice but to give in to their pricing.No sign company places their business practice to suggest that you have to buy now to improve your image or except the pain of high prices.Walk into a dentist office after being up all night with a toothache and price doesn't matter and beating these bastards price down is no option..."They Gotcha"
Posted by Preston McCall (Member # 351) on :
Learn how to negotiate with the local signage companies - Tip: they are all thieves!
That is truly amazing. Will send him my opinion.
Posted by Jay Allen (Member # 195) on :
I only wear the pink stuff at Letterhead and Walldog gigs, Petie . . . but what I am wearing DID get in a bunch.
Kim nailed him on Facebook . . . I'll wait to join in after I see if he replies to my email.
Pompous a$$ . . . (not you, Pete . . .)
And I'm hatin' on Canada right now, Pete . . . The Ca*ucks knocked my Blackhawks out of the hunt for Cup #2 . . . Is there no justice? No repeat? 1961 - 2010 - ??????
Posted by Michael Boone (Member # 308) on :
be sure that assclown gets a LINK to this page...
Posted by Preston McCall (Member # 351) on :
888-476-4886 is the number to call to complain.
Posted by Pete Payne (Member # 344) on :
yah Jay, it must suck when a Canadian team knocks a team of Canadians based in the U.S. out of the playoffs, just like all the canadian players on boston did to Montreal:)
Posted by Jay Allen (Member # 195) on :
I wouldn't link this page to his Facebook page or even let him know we're here . . .
Quit exporting your "products" down here, Pete and we won't need to do that . . . but then only half your hockey players would have jobs. What to do then?
Now the meat, Pete . . . this is HALF our sport, too . . . See the original 6? The Original Six teams Boston Bruins Chicago Blackhawks Detroit Red Wings Montreal Canadiens New York Rangers Toronto Maple Leafs
That's THRE teams from Canad-eh and THREE teams from the U.S. - so how do you claim it as 'your sport' now?
I Facebooked 'The Wealthy Dentist' through my shop page and wrote this:
Your negative remarks labeling sign companies as 'thieves' on your website is offensive to all sign company owners who struggle to make a decent living in a very tough profession.
The comment also comes from someone who charges up to $10,000 per day to speak to dentists about negative issues such as this. That seems a tad bit hypocrit...ical, in our personal opinion. Signs cost less to view than ANY other advertising - so how do you brand those who offer such value to business owners as 'thieves', Mr. Du Molin? Read what the Small Business Administration says about signs: http://www.sbaonline.sba.gov/idc/groups/public/documents/sba_homepage/pub_mt12x.txt
Perhaps a change of text on your website about sign companies would be a proper, professional and appropriate response?
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
I wrote up something and even deleted it here, because it crossed the line.
I did have this written up to email him but deleted it... it helps sometimes just to write your thoughts down.
[ April 28, 2011, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: Neil D. Butler ]
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
Can't post or comment on his Facebook page....only check like Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
LOL Neil! You self help wizard you!
Jay! Canada will always love you anyway. It's the way we operate, eh? Posted by Pete Payne (Member # 344) on :
Jay, we'll let you keep Justin Beiber and Celine Dion if we can have the Jets and Nordiques back, on second thought you can have Celine for free if you promise NOT to send her back, and our official sport is Lacrosse, hockey's just a hobby, that's why only 70% of the NHL players are Canadian, imagine if we took it seriously
Posted by Mark M. Kottwitz (Member # 1764) on :
Wow...Now that just chaps my a$$...
What gets me is this is an profession that charges different rates based on who is paying. Say someone walks in needing a filling with no insurance: Cost $245 (at least)...Someone who has insurance has to pay $45 at the time of the visit, and the insurance company pays them $100 (roughly)...so they charge someone who can't afford insurance at least $100 more than someone that can...now that's a rip off artist.
Posted by Jay Allen (Member # 195) on :
Pete . . . Time for some horse trading. Celine is out - Vegas has her and that hellhole is perfect. Net zero on that trade. I'm shipping back the Bieber kid (PLEASE SHIP HIM OVERSEAS BABY BABY BABY) and the Jets and Nordiques . . . but you gotta give us Tim Horton's.
My son now plays lacrosse - so no bad words there. And if you play lacrosse like you played volleyball in Boise, well, why don't you just give us that too. And Tim Horton's . . .
With respect to hockey . . . well, I got nothing . . . You win. But who has Lord Stanley's Cup (besides Mrs. Stanley) right now???? That's right . . . MY home state of Illinois. (That's here in the United States)
But you guys mismeasured our football fields when you took that game from us, Pete. Not sure as I haven't watched any C-EH-FL games in some time, but I think yours are still screwed up. Too big . . . Jeez . . .
Donna, come down here and live in the states . . . th-eh don't deserve you up there.
Posted by Jackson Smart (Member # 187) on :
Sheesh!!!!
What a maroon! Posted by Tim Barrow (Member # 576) on :
If ya really want to git this guy make him have to go to a great extent to get his next sign,....notify all the sign companies in his area(just north of San Francisco) and let our peers see his attitude online,....take tha low life's opportunity to get robbed by theives such as us away,...
[ April 29, 2011, 12:01 AM: Message edited by: Tim Barrow ]
Posted by Deb Fowler (Member # 1039) on :
Around 1998, I accidentally dialed an 800 number wrong...but I listened to the message as it was extremely fascinating. This number was a message and ad for doctors who wanted to get in with the pharmacy, I think it was Rexall or something like that which discontinued their public drug stores and now wanted to market vitamin paks for doctors offices for specialty problems.
You may remember those paks: one for back, one for heart, maybe one for prostrate, one for woman specialty problems and men's problems, etc.
I listened and as the recording played out, it was saying that now people were getting tired of all the drugs and now are demanding vitamin and preventative therapy. This the doctors could get in on and then make it so everything had to go through doctors as they would have the complete market, driving health food stores and storefronts from being able to sell the vitamins.
You probably remember that time period and there were massive petitions by health constituents and aware citizens for the Supreme Court to keep the choice and access for health products in their hands not the doctors only.
This was so interesting but I just stumbled upon this. As a matter of fact, a friend's husband had a doctor who prescribed a few years later the vitamin pak for "backs" and he ended up with heart failure due to this vitamin therapy the doctor never researched, just sold from the pharmaceutical company.
Just goes to show what we haven't seen that goes on behind the scenes and so many unsuspecting individuals succumb to, trusting blindly anybody that has some credentials of an office diploma.
Posted by Ricardo Davila (Member # 3854) on :
For those interested on Jay's topic, here is a website that may shed some light on those interested in going after this moron, who calls us "thieves".
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_States_defamation_law
Any takers?..........Just to mess with the idiot?
RD
Posted by Ricardo Davila (Member # 3854) on :
Sorry,
It should read:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_defamation_las
Posted by Ricardo Davila (Member # 3854) on :
Sorry, again..........my bad!
It should,really, read:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_defamation_law
Posted by Sonny Franks (Member # 588) on :
I just left a heartfelt message on his e-mail.
Technical question: would calling someone an a$$hole be considered slander or libel?
Posted by stein Saether (Member # 430) on :
2 weeks ago I paid 350 US for a ten min tooth removal. The thooth was aching so bad I would have paid anything. Those guys schould be under a price regime.
Posted by bruce ward (Member # 1289) on :
I have emailed Carlton Sheets and Dave delDotto to go over and kick his bald headed ass. I also noticed a comment where "He literally made millions" This guy IMO is just another freakin loser that has groups of people pumped into an auditorum gets them all hopped up on success and then spanks their asses as they run out to "tackle the world" and then of course he gets a check.
Lowlife scumbucket
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
quote: Now the meat, Pete . . . this is HALF our sport, too . . . See the original 6? The Original Six teams Boston Bruins Chicago Blackhawks Detroit Red Wings Montreal Canadiens New York Rangers Toronto Maple Leafs
That's THRE teams from Canad-eh and THREE teams from the U.S. - so how do you claim it as 'your sport' now? [Wink]
Jay, which one of these four cities is in Canada? Chicago, Detroit, Boston, or New York City?
Me thinks you need to recheck your atlas...
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
He now knows what I think.
Pasted links at S101 down the street too! Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
oh that's just one arsehole spewing off bullshyt...and trying to make $ off it. My dentist rocks but his signage SUCKS!! lol This arrogant douchebag probably had a bad experience with a signmaker and is generalizing our profession...kinda how I feel about lawyers and vets in general...lol. I wouldn't let this prick ruin your day.
[ April 29, 2011, 07:20 AM: Message edited by: KARYN BUSH ]
Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
If that dentist only had a chance to spend a week with one of us ...
I've alway been amazed by broad generalizations. I don't know how many times I've been called "Easy Money" or had somebody ask "what are you going to do with all your money?" Or "I knew a guy who did that when I was young, and he had to down a 5th of whiskey -- before he got started." We hear it and it hurts. Thank goodness we have a place like this to vent. It's health to vent.
What really hurts is a dentist yanks around in a persons mouth and, outside of some basic science is just a technician. How does their occupation compare to an occupation such as ours that demands constant creativity and a variety of skills and salesmanship.
It's sort of like kicking a dog when he's down. That man needs to be invited to spend a day with a letterhead to garner some humility and to see whose the generous one and whose the thief. This is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.
We spent quite a bit of time with dentists last year. They know how to charge. The one thing they have over us is they feel entitled to charge because they have the degree and have the license that gives them the abreviation behind their name.
Eventually folks will realize that degrees and titles are just that. They don't automatically give a person more worth.
Let's file a class action suit against the jerk for "defamation of characher." As a joke of course ... but if he's expecting a thief ...
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
I gave in, I emailed him... now I feel Bad.....Naaaa!
Posted by Bob Sauls (Member # 11321) on :
This guy is an example of a shrewd business man. He shows just how many sign people devalue their own work. I am not saying he's a nice guy...... He does mention spending 40K on signs as a helpful investment. Too frequently our pricing (profit margin) is on a sliding scale to fit our immediate need. When we do it it is just what's neccesary, when others do it it feels like thievery. This world needs some respect for others. Rah, rah sessions look after dentists just as our magazines and forums cater to us. I guess I do not have the energy to blast this guy for the splinters in his eyes this morning, I have a few beams in my own.
[ April 29, 2011, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: Bob Sauls ]
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Well said, Bob.
Posted by Jay Allen (Member # 195) on :
Bruce Bowers . . . I am admitting public stupidity . . .DUH!!
See, Pete? Our sport . . . Now what say you?
(Thanks, Bruce!!!)
Posted by Jay Allen (Member # 195) on :
Bob Sauls . . . While I agree in principle with what you're saying (many sign shop owners are poor businessmen), the VALUE he places on himself - and signage - does not translate properly in a statement descrbing those in the profession as 'thieves' . . .
Which is it?
Are signs a bad value working 24-7-365 and rated the least costly form of public advertisement?
Or are the prices inflated and the owners all distrustful and greedy?
It can't be both . . .
He does NOT say we devalue our work - he says HE devalues our work and we're ALL 'thieves'. Many in the profession are doing the devaluing (I will give you that) - and this man's shtick rides that horse even harder.
I don't think that's proper OR professional.
I have bright eyes this morning also - and share in the joy of living as you stated so well . . . But if there is someone who is publicly denigrating your own personal family, do you choose silence over respect? That's all we wish for - respect. He didn't give that in his comment.
'Turn the other cheek' is fine . . . but this is in a public forum and his caustic remarks are hypocritical to his message of a sign's value to a dentist.
THAT is the part of the message I disapprove of. The part where he disrespects and entire profession . . . and labels ALL in one category:
Given, his advise to dentists is not a review of one's performance, it still leads in the direction of a defamation lawsuit and it's viability. Any use here?
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
I've built sandblasted HDU signs for two different dentists. I didn't make a killing on the signs and I'm confident that the dentists got their money's worth. After several years the signs still look good 've not heard one complaint from either of them.
This guy is just one of probably hundreds of dentist consultants on the net and I'm sure the vast majority don't use such childish and unprofessional statements. He will reap what he sows.
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
Doug, you are so bad! LOL! Posted by Diane Malesky (Member # 687) on :
LOL! This is TOO funny....& ironic. We are working on a project for OUR dentist, who (my bad!) have bardered with him, given him free artwork, etc.... again lesson learned... He now wants full payment and the patient can submit paperwork to insurance company, MUST have full set of x-rays every 2 yrs... , etc... much more to write... he just built the taj mahal of a state of the art 3 story huge building... has a tennant and room for another, is getting into the scam of cosmetic dentistry, etc... and is now ... JUST THIS A.M. sent me an email telling me that he is going to have to get 3 other bids and is concerned about my price. A week AFTER He Signed My Contract!!! What a dill!!
I was floored. People NEVER cease to amaze me. I know my price is right and it will be interesting to see what he gets. To be continued.
I've learned how to handle this now... calm, breathe, no panic... sales are really challenging now in this crazy wall street government economy.
Lesson: Never Mix Business with Pleasure and ALWAYS get PAID for EVERY MINUTE OF YOUR TIME!!
Wow, I'm getting all heated now... yeah well. Let me go change the oil in my 2000 VW and my 1996 shop truck! LOL
The rich are never rich enough. I'm glad I'm not rich. If I got rich I'd open an animal shelter & work on the environment. Another subject. Windmills for everyone!! LOL!
Have a great weekend! Weather is beautiful and pray for the Alabama people.
Posted by Bob Sauls (Member # 11321) on :
Jay, What do you want him to do change his mind? Add in my opinion all signmakers are thieves? It seems you are intentionally misunderstanding my point while trying to agree with it.
In a perfect world all of the signmakers in America should stand firm on their prices and not negotiate when dealing with dentist. Then all dentist would know that this speaker was full of beans, It would be him that they would recognized as a theif. Disseminating false information about how easily sign-makers are rolled. Perhaps I'll be in your debt after you threaten him with a liable suit and he changes what he's saying about all of us. You keep swinging away at it and I'll go back to work. I hope you'll feel as good at the end of the day about what you've spent your energy on. Now I'll make some assuptions which is always dangerous. This guy is taking up a lot of space on his site about signs. I can't imagine many dentist who would not think this odd. It leads me a simple sign-maker to assume he may have a kink in his personality. Of coarse if I were as clever as a dentist I might even say he was off on a personal tangent which may have a medical componant. I suspect that he's angry that the professional signmaker my actually charge a higher hourly rate than some dentist do. This is the main reason I left the practice of dentistry. ...........................Love you guys.
Posted by William DeBekker (Member # 3848) on :
YIKES.....
These two need to get together and Go Bowling.
Old Arthur "Yikes" von Boennighausen..
[ April 29, 2011, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: William DeBekker ]
Posted by Pete Payne (Member # 344) on :
Jay, Tim Horton's was bought by Wendy's volley ball isn't a real sport like say, ROAD HOCKEY, so that doesn't count,and yes, we all know you got nothin when it comes to hockey, stunt ridin harleys? now thats another story, you got me there Real men play on big fields, I guess the guys in the NATIONAL FELON LEAGUE must be too oughta shape you be sure and get the stanley cup all buffed up, it will soon be leaving for a new home, with a new bunch of Canadians based somewhere in north america
Posted by Dan Beach (Member # 9850) on :
* Not intended to be a factual statement.
This guy is ripe for politics.
Posted by Dan Beach (Member # 9850) on :
"Learn why spending $40,000-plus on signage might just be the best dental marketing investment you ever made."
New first question to dentists needing signs:
"Do you know about The Wealthy Dentist?"
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Yeah, the landlord had some pest company spray around the air conditioner to get rid of our bee problem. Was here all of ten minutes and used my ladder. $250, if the thief description applies to some businesses, this guy moves up the list.
Posted by Jay Allen (Member # 195) on :
<What do you want him to do change his mind?> Actually, yes I do, Bob.
Signs ARE a great value (he admits that signs are important in his statements) and sign shop owners are NOT thieves. I couldn't be more firm on that. If you think it is acceptable, that's perfectly fine. But facts prove otherwise . . . and HIS comment is all opinion. So the desire is to have him address the reason and source of his dissatisfaction - open lines of communication with someone slandering our porofession and not stick our heads in the sand and forget it was ever said.
<Add in my opinion all signmakers are thieves? It seems you are intentionally misunderstanding my point while trying to agree with it.>
Not at all . . . The part I agree with you about is not owning this man's bitterness or incorrect opinion and getting on with my day. (And it's a beautiful day here in sunny northern Illinois today!!) But if I saw someone hurting somebody else physically while walking down the street, I'm the type of person who would stop and help - not dismiss it as none of my concern and get about my busy day.
I see this affecting not only ME - but a 'family' of sign shop owners I know to be reputable, honest, hard-working and far from being even remotely close to being 'thieves' . . .
So I spoke up . . . I won't own his anger or contempt nor let it affect my day either, Bob. I see clearly what you're saying . . . but I couldn't let it go . . . and now it is over and done.
I have no intentions of pursuing the man legally for his careless remarks . . . but silence is submission - and it isn't ME he defames. It is ALL of us . . .
If I had not brought this to other sign shop owner's attention, then some shop owners might well continue our past ways of undercharging and not fully realizing the worth of a sign. Knowing fools like this are out there requires going on the offensive . . . and not sitting idly by as one fool brands an entire industry as disreputable.
Been there now, done with that . . . Life moves ahead now . . .
I hope he changes his verbiage on his web page. He'll still say it in private, more than likely - but slandering an entire profession as he did is opinion - not fact. He's selling facts - by his own description.
Now he has one more fact to consider and tell his dentist/clients: Sign shop owners are NOT thieves - and they are very well connected to one another!! LOL
Posted by Bob Sauls (Member # 11321) on :
Jay, I saw you In Danville and I am sorry that there was not more time to visit, in person with everyone That I would like to be friends with including you. It is a stunningly beautiful day here in sunny Tallahassee as well. I Have enjoyed the spirited discourse today.
Posted by Jay Allen (Member # 195) on :
Bob . . . I've been an admirer or your work since you fist popped up here at Letterville. You're a stellar designer. We'll get our chances in the future to meet up. I'm also pleased with this conversation and points made . . . Communication makes the world go round.
It's funny that you brought up the points you did. I feel VERY strongly that one should never get mired in the problems or issues that exist in other people's lives - or let certain issues consume our own. Though my point there might also seem hypocritical (considering my comment to Mr. Du Molin's sill remark), it isn't. Let me explain (though I think you're already aware of it and think it also) . . .
Too often we get all worked up and let our emotions boil over. The next day (or sometimes a few days later) we often regret our 'boiling point' issue we embraced. Your point is spot on with how I feel . . . don't get mired in the minutia - or in somebody's 'negative' energy. Let it go....
You pointed out exactly that - and that was the next point I was going to bring up . . . "time to move on" . . .
You and I are both looking outside today and feeling gratitude for being alive, right-thinking minds, respectful and joyful. The weather mirrors that feeling. THAT is the real point to embrace once the 'issues' we face get settled . . . gratitude and not letting the 'bad' feelings outweigh the 'good' feelings.
All too often people will live for revenge - or get stuck with a negative 'energy' that destroys the very soul inside us.
When my dear friend, Renata Guzman was diagnosed wtih cancer she taught me an extremely valuable lesson. She strongly felt that her anger and disappointment with her mother (long story) was the cause of her cancer - and that it had festered inside her for so long, it eventually manifested iitself in a physical way.
Whether metaphorically speaking or not, her point was: "If we let anything eat us up inside, it will...."
I will go to my grave with that understanding - and TRY every day to stay happy and grateful for what I have and all things joyful.
But when I see an inequity, I will speak up . . . say my piece . . . and then get back to the matters of the day.
You too, it seems . . . and THAT is a great thing!!
Thanks for the 'chat' and the chance to share ideas and viewpoints . . . and bring up terrific issues for open discussion. We're all in this together!!
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
I find it rather ironic that he doesn't see dentistry fees as thievery as well. Hmmm...
Posted by Nevman (Member # 332) on :
Here's what I emailed him from his website (I have a few attorneys that will work with me on this)...
Class action suit.
My lawyers are looking into this.
"•Learn how to negotiate with the local signage companies - Tip: they are all thieves!"
This is not stated as an opinion but rather as a given fact.
Sign companies work hard to earn their clients' money - not STEAL it from them.
Remove this statement imediately our you will be hearing from my and others' attorneys.
I also posted on his FB page.
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
There are thieves in every profession. To broad brush all in a group because of a few is a common tool of bigotry.
I’ve had very nice experiences doing signs for dentists, and some really bad ones, too. Before I invested all that time and expertise the last time I tried to negotiate a sign package for a dental office, maybe I should have spent $247.00 with TheWealthyDentist.com to find out what I was really up against, for it might have been money well spent. After my experience with the wealthy dentist who wanted signs for his fancy new digs, I can assure you there was thievery, but it certainly wasn’t at my end of the deal.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Sign makers give signs in return for money and dentists take money to take your teeth away from you. Who's the thief again?
I heard from a reliable source that dentists and signmakers have had a symbiotic relationship from the very beginning. Si Allen once painted a cave wall in return for his dentist using a rock to bash out a bad tooth.
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
It just looks like another cheezy-infomercial-psycho-babble site to me. Did you watch the video clip..... Why give it the time of day. Unless someone wants to sell him a website. The guys probably so excited about all the attention and hits he is getting this week, his traffic is likely up 100x. Life is too short. Posted by Dennis Kiernan (Member # 12202) on :
I'd guess that the skill and knowledge of a good auto mechanic is about the same as that of a good dentist. I'd also guess that their capital expense and overhead are about the same. If so, why does one charge about five times the hourly rate of the other?
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I'd guess about 50 times more people are willing to spend there day smelling, seeing and touching grease, than plaque!
Posted by Adrienne Pereira (Member # 1046) on :
I added my 2 cents on his FB page....for what it's worth...maybe we can at least be a boil on his bum for a while, he's a coward.
Posted by Ken Henry (Member # 598) on :
The REALLY wealthy dentists are the ones who got into making and marketing Tartar Sauce. That stuff is so expensive because I've heard that it takes a dozen Dental Hygenists an entire month to collect enough tartar to fill just one jar.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
OOOOOOkay!!!Let's take it one at a time, shall we?
* How to generate from 10 to 30 additional new patients a month with a well-positioned set of dental office signs! Hang them with bag ties over your door. When a customer comes, release one bag tie so the sign strikes him in his mouth, knocking out two or more of his teeth. Bill for replacement teeth.
* The economics of dental signage and how to add $1,000,000 or more to your bottom line over the life of your office sign. Place a powerful magnet in the sign to attract people with braces and repeat step one.
* How to pay for the cost of your new facility with new patients from properly positioned signage - Tip: don't contract for a new facility until you've heard this! Place it in the back of a pickup truck and have it fall out in front of your "old facility". When the guy behind it swerves into your building to avoid hitting the sign, collect on the building insurance and sue the driver for lost income.
* Learn how to position a "Monument" vs. a "Pole" sign and which is best. There's some stuff about dead Polish people there, but I'll refrain and let his political incorrectness do it's own dirty work.
* Learn exactly how big, how bright and how tasteful your sign should be. Translation: Big, big Brush Script, Red and Black on white, hang a potted plant from it.
* Learn the four dental sign elements you MUST have, and the the two that are optional - and how to position them and prioritize them. 1: Letters 2: Numbers 3: Something to put the letters and numbers on. 4: A building to place it on or near Optional: 1: A big cheesy looking tooth in 3D 2: A big cheesy looking toothbrush in 3D.
* Learn how to negotiate with the local signage companies - Tip: they are all thieves! Umm, Doctor I HAVEN'T PULLED A TOOTH IN 20YEARS BECAUSE I DO OVERPRICED SPEAKING ENGAGEMENTS.....who you calling thieves. Most of the people on this website have forgotten more than you'll ever learn about effective and tasteful signage and we share our knowledge here for FREE.
* How to use your dental office sign to "Pre-Heat" your new patients for higher case acceptance. Okay, now he's leaning toward neon lights and scantily clad girls in windows. This only works under Amsterdam sign ordinances.
* When, and more importantly, when not to, put your office logo on your signs. When your being sued for malpractice would be one of those "when not to" moments.
* Learn the secret of how to protect your signage against graffiti artists and vandals. Does this involve gun permits and rabid Pit Bulls?
* Learn how to update "Tired" signs for next to no money. This probably involves a can of Rustoleum and some stencils, huh?
* How to double your new patients when you have "walk-by" traffic. Give out a $hitload of free fertility drugs and hope they have twins who need braces.
* How to turn your office windows into landmark entertainment centers promoting your dentistry. Back to the Amsterdam marketing campaign again?
* Learn why spending $40,000-plus on signage might just be the best dental marketing investment you ever made. Lemme guess? You're selling them at 40K, jobbing it out to the "thieves" for a fraction of that pocketing the rest.
Honestly, this guy's great. If you have any doubts, just ask him. I'm sure he'll be more than happy to tell you he's great. Hell, he probably won't inhale for a half hour.
Personally, I love tossing these kinds of people out of my shop. Rapid
Posted by Louie Pascuzzi (Member # 1373) on :
Just sent him my 2 cents worth.
Posted by Sonny Franks (Member # 588) on :
Rapid Ray, that was CLASSIC.......
Posted by Jane Diaz (Member # 595) on :
He finally cleaned up all of our sign friends "comments" off of his facebook page. Guess he FINALLY checked in...
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
What a dweeb.
Hey Ken H. Thanks a lot. I'll never be able to eat tartar sauce again. Too funny though.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Dave...You know Ken's sense of humor...
Ya don't want to know his suggestion to me when we visited today!!! Posted by Ben Diaz (Member # 7319) on :
Because I carry a grudge I filed a complaint with the BBB about this guy. Here is the complaint:
Complaint filed by: Ben Diaz Complaint filed against: The Wealthy Dentist.com Complaint status: Forward Business Response to Consumer Case Description: On the Wealthy Dentist website specifically on the page: http://thewealthydentist.com/dental-marketing/dentalsigns.htm It states that in the video tutorial it will include information on how to "Learn how to negotiate with the local signage companies - Tip: they are all thieves!" This is slanderous towards signmakers. Category: Advertising Issues Case opened date: 12/07/2011 Case closed date: Desired Resolution: The line "Learn how to negotiate with the local signage companies - Tip: they are all thieves!" must be either removed or changed on the website. Any mention of how sign companies are "all thieves" should also be removed from the video tutorial.
Here was his response:
Dear Sir/Madam The comment on the website is absolutely correctly stated. I've worked as a dental management and marketing consultant for over 25 years. I have spoken to over 100 dental groups including the American Dental Association and the Academy of General Dentistry. I have consulted directly on the design, purchase and installation of over 200 dental signs for doctors. Virtually every one of these signage purchases was a struggle to complete with numerous ''unexpected'' costs being added to projects. The line quoted in the complaint comes directly from a personal friend who at one time owned a signage company. He was very clear that it was one of the dirtiest businesses he had ever participated in and sold it off as quickly as possible. He would tell stories of signage company sales people automatically jacking up the quote by 20%-40% as soon as they heard the word ''Doctor''. Every week I send out a newsletter to 30,000 dental subscribers. In it I share my opinion regarding dental marketing strategies. If Mr. Diaz does not like my opinion on the signage industry... that's fine by me. He doesn't have to buy my tutorial or read my newsletter. That is the way it works in this country, check out The First Amendment to the US Constitution. I believe Mr. Diaz is part of a group of signage people who have decided to speak up about my opinion about signage in various forums... that is his right. I respect his opinion; I just don't give it credence. Mr. Diaz has accused me of ''slandering'' his industry. By definition, you cannot slander an industry, only an individual. Please feel free to post this response side by side with the complaint from Mr. Diaz. Jim Du Molin The Wealthy Dentist.com P.S. As a side note, I've probably done more to promote signage in the dental industry than any consultant in recent memory.
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
That would make your blood boil!
Posted by Jay Allen (Member # 195) on :
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Ben, remind me to never pi$$ you off . . . He's right, you can't slander a profession - only an individual. But it did drive home our point . . .
That said, his claim to promote signs forgets one thing . . . he seeks to dominate the signmaker - without due respect for the commerce it brings him . . . Do you hold a gun to your dentists head and demand a lower price?
Right . . .
The blind cannot see . . .
Merry Christmas anyway . . . I'll say a small prayer for a lump of 'coal' in Mr. Dumolin's stocking . . .
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Would anyone expect the guy to say anything different?
From my own POV, the whole matter is a waste of time. As long as I create and maintain a reputation for great service and a great product, who cares what he says. My clients are going to keep me too busy to worry about it.
Posted by Joseph Diaz (Member # 5913) on :
Ha Ha I didn't know Ben did that. Yeah it may not be slander or libel, however he does have an unfounded prejudice against the entire profession he obviously knows nothing about.
How could he claim: "The comment on the website is absolutely correctly stated" when there is no possible way he has worked with "all" us signmakers in order to reach the conclusion that we are "all crooks".
I tend to avoid someone who will judge an entire group of people based off of only a handful of negative interactions... Negative interactions that may have been the cause of or had more to do with that prejudice person than the entire group of people he or she judges.
So when he says that "virtually every one of these signage purchases was a struggle to complete" You have to wonder if it's actually him that is the problem, and how helpful he is actually being acting as the middle man.
I'm hoping most other people like to avoid folks like that too, and when they come across that part in the descriptions of his tutorials, they save their money.
[ December 21, 2011, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: Joseph Diaz ]
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
I just did this a few weeks ago....
Who cares what the guy says. My clients didn't.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
As cheap as this weazel appears to be in regards to buying signs and the confrontational manner he exhibits toward the profession trying to make a profit, I'd be afraid to get dental work done by him. Who knows if he applies the same 'purchasing tactics' with the suppliers of his practice??
I'd hate to sit there and wonder if he's using low quality xray machines, dental tools, dental sterilization processes, filling materials, etc. just to save a buck.
I'm hoping that would not be the case.
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
My mother used to tell us five children, "If you can't get along with someone, it could be your problem or it could be their problem. If you can't get along with anyone, guess whose problem it is."
When the dentist says, "Virtually every one of these signage purchases was a struggle to complete with numerous ''unexpected'' costs being added to projects", I know where the problem lies.
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
David, you don't surmise that maybe the guy kept adding and subtracting items from the projects, do you? Those change orders can be a bugger... especially when the project has gone into production.
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
Bruce, I wouldn't be surprised one bit. We recently did two restaurant sign packages and had to deal with the "rest o' rants" of the owner, who changed his mind after production started more often than Elizabeth Taylor cycled through husbands. His executive assistant said she'd be a millionaire if she had a buck for every time he changed his mind. He also couldn't understand why scrapping something in the middle of the project and making it much bigger should cost more. His brother must be the wealthy dentist.
Posted by Dusty Campbell (Member # 4601) on :
Initially it made me mad because I took it personally, but if I substituted another profession in there, I'd think it's a ridiculous statement and start thinking the person saying it was full of it.
Throwing out a big figure as a blanket for all the different types of dentist offices out there further makes me think he's just full of bull.
Hopefully the people reading it will realize what a load of hot air he's trying to sell them.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
wrong post
[ December 24, 2011, 04:19 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
[ December 24, 2011, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
CURLING AND 2 MAN LUGE are the only canadian sports))))
[ December 24, 2011, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Harris Kohen (Member # 2139) on :
Im gonna guess that this BUFFOON probably doesnt hold a legal license to practice Dentistry in this country anymore, I mean seriously if he spends all the time presenting seminars, how would he have time to practice what he preaches and earn the required continuing education points he would need. Or wait, maybe he is a Horse dentist.
Now looking at the glass from a different viewpoint. If WE(those of us reading this) all stop doing signs for dentists. Eventually the guy who bought himself a plotter and thought he was going to make millions in the sign business will be so busy doing cheezy cheap dentist signs, that WE will be able to focus on the quality designed jobs that our customers appreciate.
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Unless someone wants to sell him a website. 