Yeah that's right Mr. marketing expert, you heard me... I won't apologize for my choice of computer and design software. You want to be an adobe snob... go for it. You want to be a follower of the almighty Apple... that is your prerogative, but leave your attitude at the door please. We have had plenty of luck choosing a different path, and keep in mind you are hiring us. So why is it when you assumed we used your preferable set of tools we were fine and dandy and worthy of taking on your design project? But now that you know we don't, you feel the need to correct us on our ways?
You know when ever I admire the design work of the people in this industry that I really look up to, whether they use PC or MAC or Adobe or Corel, is the last thing that comes to mind. Because they are just tools that the designer uses, and they don't magically give that person the talent or experince that is recognized in their work. These programs can all be used to create any shape you want and make it any color you want, so then why is it that this attitude is so common in the design world? It is kind of silly. And if you try to picture the same argument go down between two carpenters and their choice of coping saw brands, it really makes you laugh.
I have never had a problem with people in this industry passionately arguing why they picked brand A over brand B and defending their product of choice, but when ever someone assumes that those choices somehow define that person's abilities or skill level, that is when I stop taking the argument seriously.
I kid you not, we had a kid right out of school one time come in and apply for a job here, then gave me a hard time because I use Corel... Can you believe that? Can you guess if he got the job or not?
Anyway just a fun little rant. I'm not trying to pick an argument about what set of tools is better then the next, but how some people take those opinions to the next level and how ridiculous it makes them look.
[ March 03, 2011, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: Joseph Diaz ]
Posted by Tony McDonald (Member # 1158) on :
I did some work for a company last week, and they use Adobe. They create their own artwork, but didn't know how to do certain things in Illustrator. Their designer brought me the artwork on cd, and in a couple of minutes I did what they were having problems with. The gal was watching over my shoulder and said "I've got to get Corel, it's so much easier"
It's similar to the Ford vs Chevy debates. In reality, either will get you there if you know enough to drive it.
I've been using Corel since version 8. Now using X3 and still learning things all the time, but can drive it pretty well.
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Joe and Tony ... both of you get to move up to the head of the class!
Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
I use both PC and Mac, illustrator and CorelDRAW, Photoshop and CorelPAINT, etc.... all side by side and at the end of the day, they all do what they were built for- but the processor between my ears is the one that still does most of the work!
I tell every wanna-be "designer" or "artist"- show me what you can do creatively with a pencil and a scrap piece of paper... pushing a few buttons don't impress me in the least little bit. Show me how creative you are. I get really suspecious of a "designer" who says "oh. I don't know how to draw- I just design everything on the computer..." that is like a "musician" saying "oh, I don't play an instrument or sing or read music or play by ear..." REALLY- then what DO you do?
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Joseph
I cannot add a single thing!
Posted by Bill Modzel (Member # 22) on :
Gees, it's usually us Mac heads that start these.
I'm going to shut up now. . . . have a wonderful day Joe. Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
I've seen sign painters do wonders with House paint brushes. Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Go away aand leave me to my Fortran version of M$ Paint, please-I am VERY happy designing in that a DOS version of Publisher...
Posted by Sam Staffan (Member # 4552) on :
Nicely written Joe.
Hey can you believe this guy? What and idiot! Doesn't he know there are Art stores out there with "Real" art supplies? Apparently he does not expect to advance any
[ March 03, 2011, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: Sam Staffan ]
Posted by Brad Ferguson (Member # 33) on :
Excellent rant.
Posted by Tony McDonald (Member # 1158) on :
Oh crap, Si...do I have to? Let's just move Joe to the front. I'll stay here in the back and shoot spitwads in his hair.
Posted by Joseph Diaz (Member # 5913) on :
Is the teacher hot? If so I'm okay with being moved to the front of the room. Posted by Tim Barrow (Member # 576) on :
Well said,I have to agree its not whether or not someone uses one tool over another its the single minded attitude of some I have a problem with,..I won't say here what I'm learning about the problems encountered by Information technology administrators with single minded individuals who refuse to adapt to new technologies and tools as they develop.
Posted by Tony McDonald (Member # 1158) on :
Joe, the teacher is amazingly hot, but she will be in the back of the room most of the time with the troublemaker.
Posted by Jane Diaz (Member # 595) on :
I thought the teacher was a big burly nun with a ruler.... Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Lol, Jane ... did you go to the same school that I attended?
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Very good stuff Joe.... and Tony.... and Si.... and Michael....and well, everyone!
Edit: Oh... I wanted to say, I've been using Illustrator for years now, but also have Corel (use it 10% of the time).... but was using Corel again (X5) the other day for a while and thought, "Man, I sure wish Illustrator would incorporate some of these functions from Corel."
Be nice if they merged and had one kick-butt program with the best of both.
I started out using Corel back in the late 80's or early 90's ... I think it might have been Corel 3 - been so long I forget now. But - I used it exclusively for years and then switched to Illustrator - and absolutely hated it at first... but have grown to really like it, with some major caveats... proving what Joe said though... which is they are a tool which, with practice and creativity can yield good results.
[ March 03, 2011, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
Well said Joe. I agree with you 100%.
Posted by Jim Moser (Member # 6526) on :
I totally agree.... it's the artist that makes the difference, no matter what the medium ! I started with Corel.... then took some classes at the local college.... Photoshop, Illustrator, Painter. They didn't have a Corel class, so now I do most everything in Photoshop as that is the program I am most familiar with. Just got a copy of Painter11 to play with, and am slowly learning Solid Works.....
Posted by Russ Wood (Member # 14058) on :
The "big burley guy" was named Sister Theresa! Russ
Posted by bruce ward (Member # 1289) on :
good design comes from within not from a mouse
Posted by Catharine C. Kennedy (Member # 4459) on :
Funny thing about this- I hear the same noises from the "competing" systems for engravers- it's the artist, NOT the tool... Great rant, Joe
Posted by Louie Pascuzzi (Member # 1373) on :
I've always used a Langnickel 2.0 but the shop down the street swears by Luco. Then you have that old timer with the Grumbacher, "get with the times Grandpa" switch to a Mack!
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
Which platform is more stable? Which gets more viruses?
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
quote:Which platform is more stable? Which gets more viruses?
Hard to say... As a user of both, I can attest to having had problems with each one.
But that's not even remotely the topic at hand. Joe's topic relates to Creativity vs Tools. If the creative output yields visual excellence, who care's what software program or computer platform you use? I think that was the point.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
[ March 04, 2011, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
It's hard for some people to follow a conversation and stay with it.
Posted by Dan Beach (Member # 9850) on :
quote:Originally posted by David Wright: It's hard for some people to follow a conversation and stay with it.
LOL, ain't that the truth.
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
Well said Joe!
To simply frown upon one thing only because you yourself use another is of absolutely no value.
However, bring me a REASON and proof to switch? You bet I'll be open minded enough to at least investigate it. I WANT to know what's better than what I have.
Posted by Brad Ferguson (Member # 33) on :
I really do like all the programs, though I'm not equally proficient in them all. The reason I use Corel more than Illustrator is simply that I've synchronized many of the commands in Corel to match Signlab. My F7 is 'zoom to selected' in both, for example, and my scrolling wheel does the same task in both, and so on.
I hope Inkscape continues to expand and improve—I like the way it vectorizes.
Graphics programs are like languages—they all do pretty much the same things, but in different ways, and you're most comfortable with the one you learn in infancy.
When I began hand lettering, I used brown quills. I found them easier to control. Later I got used to the spring of gray quills and my paint didn't need to be as thin. I've even known wall dogs who (oh my God!) grab a fitch first.
I admire anybody who can design well, and I'm in awe of anybody who can do it with any tool you give them.
Posted by Brent Logan (Member # 6587) on :
We use everything where I work. I prefer Corel & Photoshop. I've never taken the time to learn Photopaint since I've invested so much time & money into Photoshop. Illustrator is used here mainly as a "bridge" program to open customer files and convert the fonts to outlines. Then we bring those files into Corel. Corel is better suited to the sign industry in my opinion. You can use it to draw to scale, and add dimension strings to the scaled components for shop production drawings. However, I think Illustrator works better if you have to out source commercial printing. A lot of service bureaus have problems with native Corel files. If that happens, you put your Corel art into an Illustrator file.
Anyway Joe, I think the guy is crazy for not wanting to work with a world class designer like you. All that counts is the finished product. Maybe he wants Illustrator files so he can tweak your work. I had a customer last week who has CorelDraw and takes my files and changes things to suit himself.
[ March 04, 2011, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Brent Logan ]
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Joe ... A customer like that gets sent to my least favorite competitor!
Why?
Just because, with that attitude, you know that he will be the biggest PITA that ever wandered into your shop!
Posted by Dawud Shaheed (Member # 5719) on :
I was just looking for the "like" button....I spend too much time on facebook.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
LOL!!
Posted by Jay Allen (Member # 195) on :
Corel and Photoshop here . . . since 1990 for Corel.
Nothing I can't do with it - and it is easier.
Well said, Joe. You continue to impress . . .
Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brent Logan: However, I think Illustrator works better if you have to out source commercial printing. A lot of service bureaus have problems with native Corel files. If that happens, you put your Corel art into an Illustrator file.
You would think that, but for several years I designed all sorts of commercial printing stuff in Corel, then just exported and sent the finished art as an .ai, .eps or .pdf file and never had one issue with anybody opening or printing correctly- and I used several vendors from all over the country. I never bothered with sending native Corel files because I figured somebody who didn't know better would give me flack.
[ March 05, 2011, 09:23 PM: Message edited by: Michael Clanton ]
Posted by Brad Ferguson (Member # 33) on :
I'm just curious. Is anyone using Inkscape to a serious degree? I tend to try it first when I want to vectorize.
It has some major flaws (don't they all?), but it will continue to morph and grow. It will be interesting to see where all the open source stuff goes as time passes.
Posted by Brent Logan (Member # 6587) on :
One of the production guys at Yesco said he uses Inkscape to get vector logos into Blender for 3D drawings. He said Inkscape will work for that where other programs won't. Don't ask me for specifics... it's over my head.
Posted by Tim Barrow (Member # 576) on :
I used it to produce a live iso for my unix administration class here. I had to produce a linux disk that would boot and be ready to run and I chose a cd that you could design signs and run a plotter off of. Made an "A" on the assignment, but never really used it other than to tinker around a little and cut a couple of lines of copy.
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Can you guess if he got the job or not? ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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