Hi everyone and Happy New Year. I saw the beautiful gold leaf window Alicia created for New Year 2011. In it she used a pounce pattern to help with the layout. Is there a good book on this or is this just common knowledge among sign painters. I was painting a window in a nearby town when an old fellow told me about a local mural artist who used a large metal easel. I can only imagine he was using this in the pounce process. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
A pounce patter is just a sheet of paper with holes in it.
The perforations are an outline of the letters and/or graphics.
There are two basic methods to do that"
1. Use a pounce wheel with a fairly soft material behind the paper, such as cardboard.
2. Use an electro pounce which burns little holes in the paper by causing an arc thru the paper to a metal surface on the easel. The pattern is taped into place and a contrasting powder is dusted all over it, leaving little dots that you use as a guide. Snapline blue chalk, talcum powder or charcoal are the common ones.
Posted by Preston McCall (Member # 351) on :
I recall the old Gerber macjine would cut pounce patterns? Do the newer vinyl macjines do this?
I still make a few patterns whenever I have to do multiples whioh look the same. I use the old fashion way with the wheel on a stick and sometimes resort to an awl to get very precise ones. They use to sell chalk bags (probably still do) but I take on old sock and dump in some chalk dust. They also make a plastic box tool with two halves that is a rectangle dusting pad. They work better. Mine wore out years ago and I never replaced it. I think Glantz sells them.
One of the oldest sign maker's dilemmas is what to do with the patterns when done. I always save and date them, hoping I will need them again. I have a big box full of them that seems to never get recycled. I know full well that if I threw just one away, I would need it the next day!
Another trick I use is to pront out a tiled version of the pattern in Corel draw and tape it together, using just my 'draft' mode on my printer. For a smaller pattern, these are easy to make and easily used.
Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
In a pinch (for a small truck door design)- I have taken a piece of paper with the design drawn on it, and an old airbrush needle (or even the pointed end of a good toothpick) put the paper on top of a scrap piece of styrofoam and just poke holes around the outline of the design...
for the pounce bag- I grab an old sock, put some blue chalk powder (the kind you put in a chalkline box- snapline) tape up the opening, and pounce away!
Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
I also have an electro pounce- the one that belonged to the first signpainter that I worked for when I was a teenager. After he passed away, his wife gave me a bunch of his sign stuff- the pounce machine and the large easel with sheet metal face was in some of that stuff.
I love the smell of the burnt paper, but I do hate getting zapped! One of the funniest things that I remember- the old sign painter was showing me the ropes, he had the business end of the pounce machine in his hand and said: " you see that part right there, whatever you do, don't touch that part or it'll shock the he---" PPPPOOOWWWW! --- he forgot,and touched the end of it- hahahaha
We used wooden yardsticks on the metal easel, to help with the straight lines- just drag the pounce stylus against the yardstick-- as a joke, some people in the shop would replace it with a metal yardstick- that would sure knock you on your butt
Posted by Jean Shimp (Member # 198) on :
I use my old Gerber 4b to make pounce patterns for gluing letters on a wall. My Graphtec does all the vinyl cutting but it seems like too much trouble to use it for pounce patterns.
Posted by Duncan Wilkie (Member # 132) on :
Our Graphtec makes great pounce patterns. It is a different process than the old gerber which used a wheel at an offset angle. The Graphtec punches holes with much the same action of a sewing machine. I pounced all the patterns for my mural, text and graphics in Danville with it. We did no projecting at all. It is a little more involved than setting up the old Gerber, but if you have lots of patterns or you need high accuracy, it is the way to go.
Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on :
Being "self taught" I never knew what a pounce wheel was.
I do have two now but never use them.
I plot my patterns on the Graphtec using end rolls of newspaper from the local printer. Real cheap and they have a width that fits perfectly full width into my plotter. Recently I got an 18" diameter roll for $5! Too heavy to load on the plotter so I roll off some up and down the hallway.
Big patterns I lay face down on a white surface (8x4 coro) and roughly charcoal the lines. Then trace accurately onto the surface using a ball pen and short ruler. Multiple copies use a different color pen so you can see where you have been.
Smaller stuff I make my own "carbon paper" using block charcoal or chalk on brown packing paper. The process is just as quick as making a pounce pattern. Also a lot easier to follow than a line of dots.
Another tip: Most of my substrates come with a protective plastic. Glue your paper pattern to it using art craft aerosol glue and knife around the outline. Remove excess paper and plastic and "Bingo" instant mask.
You are right about throwing away old patterns. I cleaning out my shed ready for the move. I junked a great pile of them. Would you believe I received a repeat order for two 8x4s the same week! Posted by Bob Ficucell (Member # 1460) on :
I bought my ElectroPounce SR. from Duncan about 10 years ago, i had forgotten to take my original with me when i sold my shop... still use pounce wheels too, and SARAL Paper is a wonderful thing...google it, can get it at Michaels...but not all outlets. one time, i had to sand the back of a pattern, on site, had no sandpaper for sanding the back, had to rub the pattern on the sidewalk!! ah, for the goode olde days! Posted by John Browning (Member # 9116) on :
Thank you all for the great wealth of information. There are so many methods here. I think depending on the substrate and situation a combination of them could be used. One thing I got form all of this is that there is no magic method. You really need to think about the project at hand and use the tools that make the most sense. On a rough surface it seems like pouncing is the way to go. For smooth, a transfer method that acts like carbon paper would probably work better. I was impressed that all of the patterns for Duncan's Danville Mural were done on a plotter. That must have saved a ton of time, also allowing you to get your design on the wall during daylight. Thanks again for all of your help and suggestions.
Posted by Alicia B. Jennings (Member # 1272) on :
My Plotter told me it would go on strike if I use it for a pounce machine. My Electro pounce machine showed his contract. Only he can be used for pouncing, but not on holidays. On holidays I have to use a hand held pounce wheel. Strict rules in my shop.
Posted by John Browning (Member # 9116) on :
Thanks Alicia, your work is beautiful and the videos are fun and full of great content.
Posted by Don Hulsey (Member # 128) on :
I use my plotter to draw patterns, then the Electro-Pounce to burn them. My pounce wheels live in a drawer in my van. I keep them there just in case I get on site and realise I missed a line with the Electro-Pounce. I don't like using the wheels, so I check patterns very carefully before leaving the shop.
Posted by John Browning (Member # 9116) on :
So I guess for large signs is sounds like printing, then Electro-Pounce may be the way to go. Duncan said he created his patterns on his plotter. Is there an attachment that allows the plotter to perforate the paper or do you also use the Electro-Pounce after printing. Thanks again to all of you for sharing this info.
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