I used to use an old Aussie company's gold size -made by Watsonia- till they stopped making it.
Another company here makes a size- Viponds- but there's never any niformation on how quick or alow it is, and I've found it a bit hit-&-miss. When you think it's going to be right, it'll be too dry to take any gold, or too wet & dead. I know you can say- just test it, and I do, but when you spend an hour lettering, and think you'll be able to gild in such-and-such time, and you find it already too dry to start where you started, then you start looking for other options.
JOhn Jordan said to add a touch of boiled linseed oil to it to slow it down, so that's what I tended to do.
A couple of months ago, I got a 1/4 pint can of the 1-shot gold size, thinking it might be better than what I'd been using. It wasn't easy to get over here, either & this was the last can the distributor had in Australia.
I opened it & took out a spoonful & added a bit of Keeps Intenso yellow for colouring & did the sizing & gilding & kept the remainder of the mixed stuff in a film canister.
It did dry rather quickly- both the stuff to be gilded, and the stuff in the sealed canister. The label said it sets up in one hour, and can be gilded or engine turned for up to 8 hours later. This was almost too dry to continue gilding after 1 3/4 hours. It took me an hour to size everything, and then I started to gild, which is why I was still going at the 1 3/4 hour mark. I really had to squash the gold in.
That was 2 weeks ago. Last night I went to gild a big cross, and opened the little can of 1-shot size, and it had already formed a fat skin on top, despite having been opened only for about 30 seconds when I took a spoonful of size out.
Is it common to get a skin on the stuff so quickly? There was barely 1/4" of air in the top of the can under the lid.
After doing last night's work in the cool of the evening, I decided to store the can upside down so any skins will be on the bottom, but I was just surprised by this.
It did take the gold nicely, however after 1 hour to set-up. I do like the way it works.
The Viponds gold size will keep liquid for months in a small film canister, which is why I was amazed this 1-Shot had gone off so fast.
Is this 'normal' for the 1-shot gold size, or might this be some new formulation?
Thanks!
Posted by Pete Payne (Member # 344) on :
a little trick that works with size and enamels, take a deep breath and hold it for a few seconds then exhale strongly into the can to displace the oxygen and cap quickly, this helps stop the skinning over, and I always stored the oneshot size upside down so the skin would form in the bottom of the can
Posted by Jim Moser (Member # 6526) on :
The new OneShot size does not hold it's tack very long.... I have been letting it dry for half an hour and checking the knuckle squeek after that on a couple of test patches on the same surface as the lettering. If you have the time slow size will have a much longer window and usually a better guild...
Posted by John Arnott (Member # 215) on :
I've been adding about 20 percent 12 hour size to the quick size. The One shot goes off in 30 minutes around here. It does skin over in the can real fast.
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
Yep, skinning over quickly in the can is normal for One Shot quick size.
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Thanks for the replies. Breathing in the can I sometimes do, but you don't expect it to be a necessity-just maybe an option.
The 12 hour 1-shot size just isn't available on Australia at the moment. Airlines won't freight paint type stuffs either.
Maybe it's a marketing ploy- skin over, dry up & you have to buy a new can...
Posted by Jim Moser (Member # 6526) on :
I don't know that One-Shot has a slow size.....
Posted by Kevin W. Betz (Member # 4133) on :
Add 1 drop of Mineral Spirits onto the top of the size, do not stir or shake. This will help in preventing a skin.
Posted by Len Mort (Member # 7030) on :
I can't remember where I saw it but there was a recipe posted somewhere for making old school slow fat size, like the old Hastings slow size, which was great!
Anyone remember where? if so would you post it?
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
I don't have much luck with gilding, period. But I have had no luck with the 1S fast size. It does skin up pretty fast in the can. I used to use Rolco but can no longer get it. I like the LeFranc slow size much better. Love....Jill
Posted by Joe Cieslowski (Member # 2429) on :
Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!
Posted by Darcy Baker (Member # 8262) on :
Jill, McLogan still carries Rolco size
Posted by Ron Percell (Member # 399) on :
Fat Oil would be you base to slow gold size, often rendered animal fat would be left out in the sun for several months during the summer with a lid covering the oil, occasionally stiring. Once Thickened, Varish and or Spirits were added until desired tack time was determened.
The Slower the gold size, the brighter the gild becomes.
add 5 drops of oil to every 1oz of fast size
Good Luck, Any problems, give me a call
Posted by Tim Barrow (Member # 576) on :
If you want a pretty good reference book,... the terminology is somewhat antiquated,... but the info here is priceless,....here is the link free sign manual in pdf format There is a whole chapter devoted to the process of making fat oil size with some very good formulas,.... I knew an old fellow here who made his own and it would hold a tack for several days if not longer(rumor was it could be gilded for a month but I find that kind if hard to believe),...the area that the gilding was done in had to be very very dust free because the fat oil size took quite some time to dry and held a tack for another extended period of time,.... He went to the Detroit sign school and studied under EC Matthews and was great source of knowledge in things lost to history in this trade,...
Posted by Len Mort (Member # 7030) on :
Thanks Ron & Timi.
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Thank you all for the info. I was surprised that the few holes or 'holidays' I had, when I resized over them the next day & gilded over that, were imperceptible afterwards. I've found formerly with the size I used to use, that you'd see the patch as a sort-of run-looking shape.
The 1-shot stuff was good- I was just surprised it went off & skinned over much faster that I expected.
