Just wondering what everyone's using these days for lettering enamel?? I am still using One Shot, which I believe is owned by Chromatic or vs versa now. Have to look up on line. Also wondering if you're using clear coat? One Shot makes a clear coat.
I had real issues a couple years back with using the wrong clear and it reaked havoc with our sign finishes. Cracking, fading, etc... Seem to have that under control now.
I see many new signs out there that just aren't lasting as long as they used to. I guess quality for everything has changed.
I have used a variety of vinyls. Wondering if anyone has a favorite?? I definatley think you have to use 9 year without a doubt.
Just curious of your input. Looking forward to going to the A/C show. Been such an interesting year.
Thanks!
Posted by John Arnott (Member # 215) on :
I'm not a real fan of clear coats on signs. I've seen too many go bad due to the clear. When I letter a sign with One Shot, I add a little hardened to it. Seems to help make it last. I've been doing painted MDO sign panels with One Shot, high performance vinyl, then coating it with Clear Shield anti grifitti liquid. WOW this stuff goes on great. Just roll 1 coat and it dries quick. It puts a nice even shine on the paint, vinyl and digital print part. Time will tell if it will last. I've only done a few about 1 year ago. No calls yet telling me something's wrong. The biggest failures are usually the background paint. I still like to prime with waterbase, then roll the top coat with a tuff enamel. (Frazee-Aero Plate) I don't trust the precoated MDO panels. They run the panels through a pinch roller to coat them and the mill thickness is not enough to last more than about 1 1/2 years out here in Southern California (Desert type climate) John www.signgraphics1.com
[ November 16, 2010, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: John Arnott ]
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
Here is the truth for ya, Clear is NO GOOD on signs. Why would anybody think that putting clear on lettering enamel, or any sign paint is a good idea? Did somebody say it was, or is it imagined that a clear will help?
Posted by bruce ward (Member # 1289) on :
I disagree. I clearcoat most all my signs with 2 part urethanes. None of the one shot clear crap. My signs last. If your gonna tell me clearing over a lettering enamel will not make it last longer I would have to ask what clear you are using.
If I paint something in oil bases I clear it. If I paint it in latex I dont worry bout clearing. One Shot clear is more dangerous than not clearing at all IMO. One Shot has really hit rock bottom and I refuse to use it anymore, it all vinyl unless it a wall mural. This is only MY opinion of course I know alot of you still use one shot.
Posted by Dale Feicke (Member # 767) on :
Hi Diane, It almost sounds like you might have used a polyurethane clearcoat. It works great indoors, but yellows, cracks and peels outside.
I have been gun-shy of clears over the years, because of failures; but Sherwin-Williams has a new acrylic clear, Sher-Clear, that works very well, and like John said, some of the anti-graffitti coatings are good too.
The sign paints are pretty bad these days, although I find the reds, maroons are the worst. Hardener helps, but the clear has UV inhibitors in it, and also helps. I believe anything that will seal the paint and protect it from the sun's rays will help. Also, in some cases, instead of using 1 Shot reds, I will use Sherwin-Williams industrial enamel. It holds up better.
Also, you may want to google Ronan Bulletin enamel. Many have said it's better in durability than 1 Shot or Chromatic. They sell directly to you, and have been around a long time.
Posted by Bill Reusch (Member # 8028) on :
I use the hardener in all my oil base painted signs and spray clear with 2 part PPG urethane clear after 24 hour dry down.I do it this way on all substrates with no problems. I've got a Town truck in hear today that was done this way in 1996, Variegated leaf with oneshot lettering and mini mural.Looks as good as the day it was done. Only bad thing is I'm going io have to wetsand and buffout doors before I reletter it for the new purchaser.
I've used the clearstar spray can clear on vinyl with good luck but am interested in trying the roll on for larger signs, just to get away from so much spraying.
Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
I side with Bruce. I have had fantastic luck with automotive 2 part urethane clear coats. I have applied them over 1 Shot that had their hardener mixed in and then allowed to sit a couple days before applying the automotive 2 part clears.
In our town we had basically 2 paint systems for the walldog meet a couple years ago. On the wall that had one of the murals painted with 1 Shot, that mural is already showing some fading. So it will get a clear in the spring.
To the side of that mural is a sign I painted with 1 Shot 5 years ago that I cleared with 2 part automotive clear. It is showing absolutely no fading, cracking or peeling. Practice, patience and knowledge is needed to roll a clear over your sign. You can call me with instruction. Too much roller pressure will lift the colors even with the 1 Shot hardener. You can't fall asleep or answer the phone during the process, but you must add the hardener or let the paint cure a couple weeks.
But as of last year I have been painting signs with Nova Color Paints and applying 2 part automotive clear over them. With Nova you can clear them after the paint drys usually in a couple hours. You can apply as much roller pressure as possible and it does NOT lift this paint.
I will agree that 1 part clears, Frog juice, 1 Shot sign restoring clear and a whole host of spar varnishes, etc. are worse than not clearing. But 2 part urethane clears with UV inhibitors are the key.
You need to learn how to roll them unless you are well equipped to spray them, because spraying those clears are very dangerous and the mist will cover everything precious in your shop. ASK ME HOW I KNOW!
Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
I need to add this -- since I learned how to roll the automotive clear over Nova, I rolled 2 billboards that were 32' x 12' without having 1 stinkin' little bit of lifting. They turned out fantastic. We've been so busy that I haven't had the time, but I was going to do a video of how to do it. So if things slow down I will probably do it.
Posted by FranCisco Vargas (Member # 145) on :
Bill, what kind of roller cover did you use, and which brand of automotive clear was it?
Posted by Dale Feicke (Member # 767) on :
Bill, I've also used the Sher-Clear as a tie-coat, on banners and coroplast. Put it on and then letter on it. Works pretty well.
Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
I've used several different brands of roller covers now and it doesn't seem to make a difference, Cisco. But I get the short nap ones that are recommended for smooth surfaces like for kitchens and baths ... 1/4" pile.
I then put the roller on the frame and take the air chuck and blow any frizzies off. Of course the roller cover is trash afterwards, but instead of spending the money on mohair, I found most short nap skins will suffice. I tried some cheaper ones from WalMart and they worked fine too.
I've been using PPG's Shopline which is a 1 part to 4 and I don't add any reducers. Since I usually come in before breakfast -- I'll roll one coat on before 6:30 AM and one when I come back at 8.
I try to roll about a 3' x 3' criss-crossing in all directions for complete coverage and then strike off the area in one direction with absolutely no roller pressure to pull out any bubbles. I'll then go another 2 or 3 of those sections and then come back to the first and strike it off again. On that final pass it'll cobweb up a bit, lay down and level off. But I've also found if it has a few bubbles at that time, you can take an air chuck and blow those out or even a small mist of a compatible reducer with a spray gun if need be.
This finish will not be as smooth as a baby's butt, but it'll have a slight ... but pleasing to the eye -- orange peel with a high gloss. I have even used Matthew's 2 part satin clear for reduced gloss and have also added a flex additive for large aluminum sheets that will wobble until they get installed.
Just like anything else you try for the first time, you need to do a sample or two until you gain confidence. I'll try to get somebody around here to post a pic of the Dentist clinic sign we finished recently, so you can see the results.
But the more I use Nova, the more I like it.
Posted by Diane Malesky (Member # 687) on :
This is all good advice. I believe the auto paint is the way to go. I believe the finish is uncomparable. Not sure how difficult it is to work with yet. Dave has experience in autobody and we have several close friends int he biz. I've heard about Matthews mixing system. Most likely very expensive. It's a subcompany of PPG. I will look into Ronan. I have to get in touch with them. I'm not using clear coats any longer. Would rather add another coat of color.
Any suggestions for vinyl?? Been using Avery. OK quality. Had real issues a couple years ago with lifting, as did other shops. Our other supplier offers FDC.
I wasn't able to make it to the sign show because we're so busy building this new pole barn/studio - red tape - zoning etc... $$$. So I didn't get to see any new vinyls, etc.. Missed chatting to people, etc...
Always on the quest for good products, better techniques, etc... Never a dull moment!
THANKS & Best Wishes for A Happy, HEALTHY & PROSPEROUS New Year!! Posted by Ron Costa (Member # 3366) on :
If the customer is prepared to pay the price and they want the sign to outlast most others in the area, I spray Automotive urethane clear over 1 Shot and vinyl. One of the most recent signs was for an auto body shop. Most of the signs I do for the local amusement parks are clearcoated. In these cases its not the natural elements that are harsh on the materials, Its the brutal, grubby little fingers that like to pick at the vinyl while waiting in line, or the magic marker and spray bomb appendages added to elves and snowmen on the main sign. Clean up is much easier if the surface has a healthy coat of clear. Fading is almost non existant. I do not clear all signs, I reccommend clearing those signs which will be in harms way and those with airbrushing or pictorials. Customer choice. I too would like to learn more about rolling clear, but the urethane I now use dries extremely fast.
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
JUst don't use that POR-15, I think, over enamel! I's a great urethane, designed to go well with a roller, but I had it pull everythng up when I tried-or maybe my technique was wrong...so I went back to spraying automotive urethane instead over enamels. The POR urethane, rolled, was very good over waterbased/latex paint though.
Posted by Bill Reusch (Member # 8028) on :
I've had terrible luck with the POR-15. Sometimes it would lift the paint, other times it wouldn't. Their rust preventative paint is a joke too. I painted a steel pole with it and the rust was showing through the next year. I'm a real stickler when using a product as far as reading and following the instructions. tried it doing many different things, thinking it was probably me but always had problems.
Using the automotive clears has just been so much easier and foolproof I'll just keep doing it this way. Another thing to remember though is to use the high temperature catalyst as it slows down the drying time giving it a better chance to flow out smoother before it gets stringy on you.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
I have had great success using POR 15, but only the underneath and suspension of my 64 Signet. I brushed it on 25 years ago and still looks good today
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